[CP] Mu vs Kokonoe

[pochp]

Discuss the matchup here. This post will get updated with relevant information eventually.

[C0R]

Get off the setup.

Hit that dude in the teeth with your stick.

[Nemesis]

Get off the setup.

Hit that dude in the teeth with your stick.

Im hear a shit ton of this kind of talk about unbelivably god like kokonoe.... I must admit to alittle myself as Ive found myself surprised at how "good" the very very new kokonoe players seemed to be.... like within the first few hours ...

also RIP totsuka oki lol (maybe not that bad but still lol)

[someonewhodied]

well the gravitons can fuck up your momentum by infiltrating your steins with her own and electrocute you by exploding it.

[Zeromus_X]

Got to play this matchup a little bit offline and on netplay. It's definitely an exercise in frustration, but it doesn't feel unwinnable.

Totsuka oki isn't bad if you have a few steins out already, since the laser will bounce back and hit her if she tries to mash teleport on wakeup. Still annoying as shit though. Charged stein oki is pretty good too. You can 2A meaty them to confirm if they're blocking or not, then continue 2A'ing to counter hit the teleport while still using the charged stein for additional mixup.

Her 2A and 2B low profile our 5C and jC; jB too unless it's a really deep jump in. Have to treat her like Taokaka when you're in the air.

Save your burst for unblockable setups; I'm pretty sure Mu is one of the characters that is just SOL against Black Hole super. I thought of trying something lulzy like clashing DP with the lightning rod and using Ikutachi to get out of the corner, but Tsunugui either guard points the lightning or you just get hit if you mistime it.

If you barrier the freeze gun you get a free 6C FC punish. Otherwise, you can IAD over it to punish her with the right timing. If she has graviton out it gets more difficult to punish.

[Nemesis]

If you barrier the freeze gun you get a free 6C FC punish. Otherwise, you can IAD over it to punish her with the right timing. If she has graviton out it gets more difficult to punish.

That is rather good to know ... I havent felt it was unwinnable myself but I was surprised to see everyone talking about her as though she is insanely good-- I mean when I watched the vids of her to begin with I figured she'd be strong but well... fuck lol

[bakahyl]

Not sure but why should Mu care too much about Kokonoe's mid and long range game?

Setting both a graviton (16f) and her fireball or teleport (she still needs a graviton to appear next to you) takes over her 40 frames and that fireball even disappears on hit and block. I don't think she can do much against a laser barrage aside from trying to teleport in but in that case i treat her the same as Izayoi and save a jump/airdash.

Her mid range is not impressive because her normals don't have the range or speed to win against Mu's, maybe aside from her 3c

Also at the start of the round Kokonoe can beat our 5c with her 3c

[Zeromus_X]

So I got to play against my friend's Koko a bit more. Overall still an annoying character to play against but I think Mu is much better off than most other characters. Our normals and movement can give her a hard time. Try to keep her in check with 5C and 6C if they just try to summon graviton + fireball to get in for free. Her gravitons can really mess up our neutral game though - don't get too greedy with pokes or you'll end up flying somewhere you didn't intend, whiffing a move, and proceeding to die.

Barrier is pretty good against her pressure, she has issues dealing with pushback - don't be afraid to burn half of your barrier gauge to keep her out, do anything to keep this bitch off you. Her overhead isn't very hard to block, but obnoxiously hard to punish. Seems like you have to IB it to actually attempt to punish her, if you don't get counter hit by a 22A cancel. I think barrier'ing it is our best bet - if you barrier both hits, her 22A will be too far off for her to get any real frame advantage off it, and you can backdash to get out for free. If you instant barrier the second hit, the 22A will whiff entirely.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[bakahyl]

Her overhead isn't very hard to block, but obnoxiously hard to punish. Seems like you have to IB it to actually attempt to punish her, if you don't get counter hit by a 22A cancel. I think barrier'ing it is our best bet - if you barrier both hits, her 22A will be too far off for her to get any real frame advantage off it, and you can backdash to get out for free. If you instant barrier the second hit, the 22A will whiff entirely.

While it's hard to punish her overhead, you can backdash out of the reach of the 22a even without IB or barrier.

[someonewhodied]

so after an airgrab, unlike against other characters, you have to microdash to connect 5C.

Netplay's biggest enemy: microdash 5[X] inputs.

[bakahyl]

so after an airgrab, unlike against other characters, you have to microdash to connect 5C.

Netplay's biggest enemy: microdash 5[X] inputs.

Alternatively using a dash with 2b will pick her up more easily if lag is your concern

[TD]

@bakahyl

graviton itself is a very good projectile in zoning wars, one that gives her one of the biggest disruption tactics in the game. no, not actually setting it - activating it. not sure of frames but its extremely fast after setting graviton wherever she wants. on hit/block she keeps frame adv and can teleport in, or setup. on whiff mu is pushed opposite the graviton, into banishing rays, kokonoe, wherever.

the biggest threat is that on hit or block it cancels all small/charged lasers on the screen, and can punish the startup or 236a/214d/236d, instantly shifting the momentum in most cases. can be placed in key areas and done in the air, AND makes running in not as viable either. pretty sure it can be done in between small laser zoning too. so fullscreen the mu player should still be cautious if kokonoe didnt setup a fireball.

personally l think mu does a good mix of normals bullying/zoning to win against a good kokonoe.

[C0R]

Mash drive.

Play it exactly like Arakune.

You die if you get hit, she can't hit you.

[Nemesis]

Mash drive.

Play it exactly like Arakune.

You die if you get hit, she can't hit you.

I've found this to be true as well... going in with normals without really good cover is tantamount to suicide

[bakahyl]

@bakahyl

graviton itself is a very good projectile in zoning wars, one that gives her one of the biggest disruption tactics in the game. no, not actually setting it - activating it. not sure of frames but its extremely fast after setting graviton wherever she wants. on hit/block she keeps frame adv and can teleport in, or setup. on whiff mu is pushed opposite the graviton, into banishing rays, kokonoe, wherever.

the biggest threat is that on hit or block it cancels all small/charged lasers on the screen, and can punish the startup or 236a/214d/236d, instantly shifting the momentum in most cases. can be placed in key areas and done in the air, AND makes running in not as viable either. pretty sure it can be done in between small laser zoning too. so fullscreen the mu player should still be cautious if kokonoe didnt setup a fireball.

personally l think mu does a good mix of normals bullying/zoning to win against a good kokonoe.

Despite that graviton sets and activates faster than Mu can set and fire with her steins, at the start of the round Kokonoe cannot blindly rush towards Mu because of her shorter range normals. So i always had the advantage of setting my steins before she can set up her graviton. Besides if you see a graviton placed next to you, you can still jump cancel a stein set and watch what she is trying to do

edit:

I found out the hard way that you should avoid instant airdashing towards Kokonoe. Her 6a anti air is already annoying enough and her j.a is stupidly good

Edited November 21, 2013 by bakahyl

[Nemesis]

edit:

I found out the hard way that you should avoid instant airdashing towards Kokonoe. Her 6a anti air is already annoying enough and her j.a is stupidly good

didnt i just get through posting about this lol?

[bakahyl]

didnt i just get through posting about this lol?

I didn't think that you meant by "going in with normals without really good cover is tantamount to suicide " was about instant airdashing :p

When i got myself cornered, i was trying my luck getting out of it by airdashing and

[TD]

Despite that graviton sets and activates faster than Mu can set and fire with her steins, at the start of the round Kokonoe cannot blindly rush towards Mu because of her shorter range normals. So i always had the advantage of setting my steins before she can set up her graviton. Besides if you see a graviton placed next to you, you can still jump cancel a stein set and watch what she is trying to do edit: I found out the hard way that you should avoid instant airdashing towards Kokonoe. Her 6a anti air is already annoying enough and her j.a is stupidly good

true. its not really a threatening tactic unless the mu is low on hp. just something to be wary of if the mu depends on the small lasers to start an offense (startup of stein moves in general), and wary of the direction they are pushed on whiff as it can be very disorienting even when prepared for it.

[Spring_Raid]

Mash drive.

Play it exactly like Arakune.

You die if you get hit, she can't hit you.

I feel so bad using this tactic but it's actually been working for me lol.

[Zeromus_X]

As silly as it is, a healthy dose of DDDDD seems like the way to go. It's certainly more fun than trying to take this character seriously. Also another good thing I found out, is that 2B > 5C pretty much makes her free on wakeup. It's an age old option select, but it works wonders to catch her roll or CH wakeup teleport. Really good with charge stein oki for an easy confirm if they're blocking or not.

[DaiAndOh]

Mu can get out of the 236b, 5c, black hole setup by delay tech rolling forward then dashing forward asap. Might be SOL against the 22B setup though. Getting hit by the 22b before blackhole can "soften" the damage (5k vs 8k -_-)

[susano]

So laser fortress in this matchup?

[bakahyl]

So laser fortress in this matchup?

Yes, but with caution (save a jump to jump cancel steins and don't place too many randomly) because she can still snipe you out of the air with a well placed graviton and activation as it's faster than our stein activations (which was said in page 2). Try avoid using totsuka as the recovery will leave you too open and she will get in by using a graviton against you

[susano]

Yes, but with caution (save a jump to jump cancel steins and don't place too many randomly) because she can still snipe you out of the air with a well placed graviton and activation as it's faster than our stein activations (which was said in page 2). Try avoid using totsuka as the recovery will leave you too open and she will get in by using a graviton against you

Fought two Kokonoes today and was very free because I barely understand this matchup. I guess with time I'll learn.

[pochp]

Relevant info

Was looking for some anti Kokonoe stuff, but the combos work on everyone, so I'll post them here. If anyone has better stuff, please share.

Midscreen SuperBall or midscreen/corner Teleport, same combo

dash 5b CH 6b 6c bnb

Corner Super (on 5c 6c stuff, barrier block to be safe)

5c SoD dash 2b 5c 2c j.c j.2c 2b 6a 6b 5d j.a j.b j.c dj.c j.2c (4348) if you don't have meter or don't want to spend it

5c 6c CT dash 5c 2c sj.2c 2b 6a 6b 2d SoD dash 6a 2c sj.2c (4986) if the following ones are too hard

5c 6c CT dash 5c 2c sj.2c j.5d 2b 5c 2c 5[d] j.c j.2c 3c j.2c (5117)

5c 6c CT dash 5c 2c sj.2c j.5d 2b 5c 2c 5[d] j.c j.2c 3c 214d Omohikane (5984)

SuperBall isn't that fast, so you can safejump it like most reversal, here are some ideas :

corner

throw 5c 2c j.b j.c dj.c j.2c land, falling j.b

6b 6c SoD 6a 5c 2c j.b j.c dj.c j.2c land, falling j.b

2b 5c SoD 5c 2c j.c j.2c 2b 6a 6b 5d j.a j.b j.c dj.c j.2c land, falling j.b

also, if you hit 2b when landing you'll beat backdash, not good vs teleport though, you'd have to wait and 5b, so be alert