[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[president]

"Ogawa is the only good Zato"

 

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*cough* It's not Guilty Gear if Eddie isn't broken. Be it broken good or broken bad.

[wirestyle22]

@Renly

 

This is a terrible outlook. Tier lists are stupid, but if you want an easy "high tier" character pick Faust and be done with it. There are very few players in the world that play their character to the absolute highest skill level to where what is possible with the character matters. For the other 99.99999% of players it comes down to what you are capable of doing as a player. It's my opinion that Ogawa is the best player period and he's playing an extremely strong character. FAB also is one of the best players and Zato (from what I've seen) seems to be a bad match-up for Potemkin. Theoretically, if the stupid tiers were actually accurate FAB would never beat Ogawa, because Ogawa's character is SO much better than FAB's, but that isn't what happens. Tiers are on paper and even then, they're an opinion. 

 

If you're playing to win, then pick a character that plays to your individual strengths the most. Then you can narrow down who you should be playing instead of what a tier list tells you.

[dehumanizer]

That's what makes guilty gear so awesome imo, even the bottom characters are represented in high level play. In tourneys you won't only see one character being played or winning all the time. This game is not like Street Fighter where being a low tier means you can't be competitive in tourneys. As others have said, your focus should be on finding a character that suits your playstyle.

[GaoGaoGao]

Soooo, trying to get the unblockable loops down.

 

I do:

 

dash j.S unblockable > TK SG > RC > TK SG > 5D

 

But the opponent techs before they even get the sit down animation after the second TK SG. Is there some sort of specific height I have to keep them at or something?

[president]

You delay the second SG as much as possible.

 

Also doing airdash j.S for the standard unblockable is bad. Corner UBs have the benefit of allowing safejumps and burstgrab OS. You can't utilize them this way.

[GaoGaoGao]

Ah, I meant running into j.S, not air dash j.S.

 

Its weird, it seems like in the video posted earlier about the unblockable loop they opponent has less time to tech than when I try it. Oh well, just gotta practice.

[Starfire]

One thing with the SG RC combo is that I think the unblockable has to be perfect (both j.S and the first drill hit meaty), you have to hit with j.S close to the ground and you have to instantly cancel it into SG during hitstop.

If you do it properly, the first SG should lift the opponent slightly lower than normal because the drill is keeping the opponent lower, and RC into delayed SG should bring the opponent to the ground.

[ForgoneMoose]

People probably already know about this, but I haven't seen it documented anywhere so here ya go.

 

You can do 5H(1) > 236P > RC > d.2P to summon the shadow midcombo and go into a mine UB off of that. It's a lot easier and less finicky than the S Drill > RC > SG(1) stuff posted in the combo pastebin once you get the odd timing for the RC down, at least in my opinion.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsx40P2HimY

[SoWL]

Reposting the changes here:

 

Zato changes

I may mistranslated some stuff so correct me.

- Puddle can be erased by attacks.

- Puddle summon consume from Eddie's gauge.

+ Dead man hand is now 214D

+ Dead man hand does more damage.

+ Does even more damage when Eddie gauge is low.

+ Great white knock back decreased.

* Great white scale 80% damage.

- YRC time for break the law was reduced.

- Eddie gauge refill slower than before.

-- Eddie gauge doesn't recover during special moves (ouch!)

Though I'd like to fix some things:

- Dead Man's Hand has more untech time and deals more damage when you have MORE Eddie gauge;

- the slow refill only applies when Eddie is destroyed, and it doesn't refill only during some specials.

[2312123131]

and it doesn't refill only during some specials.

Are supermoves counted as specials too? He was refilling pretty well during Executor if the distance to corner was big.

[SoWL]

Are supermoves counted as specials too? He was refilling pretty well during Executor if the distance to corner was big.

Can't say for sure, we can only wait for the loketest.

[Pichy]

So, nerfs to his neutral game but not to momentum. A perfectly fine way to handle him while maintaining his traditional pressure and enormous payoffs for getting in with full Eddie Gauge.

[Bossguy]

Ouch, those nerfs, particularly puddle summon using meter and slower regeneration of the Eddie gauge is really going to hurt. I hope at least it recharges during 22H/22S. I'm guessing that it stops recovering during DF. Zato got hit hard.

[Renly]

I will stick with Zato. It punishes you for not protecting Eddie and I'm perfectly Okay with that.

 

To add to that I think the only time Eddie doesn't recover is during overdrive.

[Rhythmic]

I'm not sure where the "-- Eddie gauge doesn't recover during special moves (ouch!)" translation comes from...

 

It says eddie gauge doesn't recover during 覚醒必殺技, aka overdrives. Basically just a nerf for executor knockdowns to recover

 

Also, at above, don't go off just that. Those are just general changes, the normals could get completely gutted, he could lose unblockables due to other unlisted changes, etc. Wait for the actual loketests.

[wiredgod]

Is this enough to make Dead Man's hand viable?  Or is it still a wasted move?

[Renly]

I'm not sure where the "-- Eddie gauge doesn't recover during special moves (ouch!)" translation comes from...

 

It says eddie gauge doesn't recover during 覚醒必殺技, aka overdrives. Basically just a nerf for executor knockdowns to recover

 

Also, at above, don't go off just that. Those are just general changes, the normals could get completely gutted, he could lose unblockables due to other unlisted changes, etc. Wait for the actual loketests.

They listed normal's changes for other characters, wouldn't they do the same for Zato if they had? His normals are pretty shit to be honest, what else are they going to do, lol.

[Rhythmic]

They did the same thing when P4U2 2.0 was announced. They released a partial changelog and when the actual loketests happened, we got a lot more information. It could be all there is, but I really doubt it.

 

There's a ton of stuff they could do, like make 5H uncomboable on crouch, but getting rid of unblockables would be the biggest deal. Not much point in speculating though, the loketests start in like 12 hours, we'll see.

[Renly]

They did the same thing when P4U2 2.0 was announced. They released a partial changelog and when the actual loketests happened, we got a lot more information. It could be all there is, but I really doubt it.

 

There's a ton of stuff they could do, like make 5H uncomboable on crouch, but getting rid of unblockables would be the biggest deal. Not much point in speculating though, the loketests start in like 12 hours, we'll see.

Well hopefully they didn't list some things for Faust and Millia who look almost unchanged. Faust looks to be a challenge with mentioned changes.

[2312123131]

I wanted to ask if there is any difference between removing Eddie with 236HS and other buttons (like 236P)? Will recovery take more time etc.?

[Renly]

I wanted to ask if there is any difference between removing Eddie with 236HS and other buttons (like 236P)? Will recovery take more time etc.?

No, all the same.

[2312123131]

By the way, are there any situations when summoning with 236P/K/S is better than 236HS~P/K/S?

[Starfire]

236S is an easy way to get the fastest possible Nobiru when you're summoning in a tight spot. 236K is ok to get a fast Mawaru after an Executor knockdown. Other than that, I'd stick with 236H.

[Rhythmic]

for some reason it's not posted anywhere here

 

 

1.1 Zato secret changes

- JK bigger hitbox

- 6K longer stagger, recovery 9->14

- Drill Special (-D-) init. proration 80

 

additional information about what we already knew:

it now takes 7 seconds for broken eddie to recharge (from 6 seconds)

the timing for BTL YRC wasn't just slightly changed, you can only do it on startup now. no more going through the entire stage avoiding everything and YRCing it when you want to come out

 

the changed proration on -D- apparently nerfs unblockable damage significantly

 

I don't think there are any vids out though

[Ryd']

Eddie's recovery after being killed doesn't seem that bad.  BtL YRC kind of hurts, but being able to duck under and get up elsewhere with 25 meter as the only cost and no real downsides was a little silly anyway.  Having the option to wait out Eddie's recovery in an untouchable state kind of breaks the balance philosophy of being weaker when solo; can't fall back on 25 meter to essentially cover up screw ups or flat out ignore portions of someone's game, so mistakes and sloppy play get penalized harder.  Need to see how bad unblockables got hit by the proration nerf, though they were a little too damaging (170~180ish?) for what they are.