[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

Well, part of Oki is typically people make it to where its safe and you don't have a lot of options against it. Expecting to do X option to get a guaranteed out on oki is unrealistic, even if you have good wakeup execution. Helios can help out in a lot of ways with short recovery and able to cancel out projectiles, but 50 meter. Really, just block the first mixup, cuz then they're probably gonna have to make a risky attempt to mix you up again.

Also, by Sol j.C, do you mean j.S or j.HS?

[Diveman]

Can someone here help me out? I'd like to know how Bedman plays, is he a zoner? I have not seen much of him but I don't really understand his style (I know what his moves do) or how can he be threatening upclose

[NecroTheReaper]

He's as much a zoner as any other character in this game. Really just meant to occupy space until he gets close. When he's close, its really balanced mixup. He's got an IOH, a decent high-low game, a great grab game, and decent frametraps. Really though I also struggle to define Bedman's playstyle.

[GKHiryu]

Really? To me he's of the poacher archetype, or "trapmaster" if you will. Against a high level opponent of equal skill, he relies on setting very specific traps on the field to harass first and full out attack second. Ofc by "traps" I not only mean the obvious ones - Deja Vu tokens, but also the more straightforward ones, mainly return hit of Task A and 2/3H.

 

No GG character is the pure zoner, there are no morrigans or dhalsims, that's for sure. But on "zoner to rushdown" scale, Bedman is much more of a zoner than close up brawler. That said, his tools are very flexible and transition from zoning to pressure can be very quick. To sum up, I'd define BE's playstyle as "Long range harassment followed up by few hard hitting combos". Though I was playing Testament for the past decade so I might just be projecting.

[Diveman]

haha I'm also a Testament player since slash and I've been struggling to find something similar, I'm using Venom atm but I got curious about Bedman 

[Mefistopheles]

Bedman is NOT a zoner. Since 1/2/3hs is jump cancelable and Task A comes back, his zoning tools are for the sake to get in. His ground normals are kinda bad, so he wants to outmove his opponent with his insane walking speak, his teleport dash and flight+his strong air normals. Once you managed to land a hit and convert it into a knockdown, the fun part starts. His mixup and setups are more about confusing your enemy, than trapping him.

 

His ultimate goal is to carry his foe into the corner, because there you can spend your meter for unblockable setups or big damage.

 

In BBCPE i am playing Rachel, and i think their both pretty simliar.

[NecroTheReaper]

So, it might be just because its easier to do, but 6HS YRC feels stronger than before. It actually worked on LostSoul who was consistently mashing out my grab attempts (cept for this one round which all my mixup was grab based lol)

[Azzal]

Erm, i'm getting throwed out of 6HS at the end, juste before it hits. Shouldn't it be throw invincible? I'm getting more throwed than pre-patch...

[Tiamat]

Erm, i'm getting throwed out of 6HS at the end, juste before it hits. Shouldn't it be throw invincible? I'm getting more throwed than pre-patch...

The throw invul is somewhere in the middle it seems. He can also be hit by striking attacks at the start and the end of 6H. Air throw to 6H now loses to Sol doing wakeup 5K. :p It's so slow. It still seems ok kinda cause I can hit it sometimes, but I don't like it much so far.

Anyone got any decent setups for 6H? Almost all the ones I used before are bad now.

[NecroTheReaper]

Really I only use 6HS for YRC. It has a huge YRC window now, and it can be YRC'd before or after you cross up quite easily. I kinda hope that in the future, 5K's foot invul gets a bit better so that you can beat low mashing.

[Lynxfort]

The throw invul is somewhere in the middle it seems. He can also be hit by striking attacks at the start and the end of 6H. Air throw to 6H now loses to Sol doing wakeup 5K. :p It's so slow. It still seems ok kinda cause I can hit it sometimes, but I don't like it much so far.

Anyone got any decent setups for 6H? Almost all the ones I used before are bad now.

Even after blocked jumping attacks ??"e.g air dash jK.jS

I didn't play1.04 vs anybody yet so I'm asking : You don't like 6H here it because it could be countered by mashing fast normals ??

[GcYoshi13]

Even after blocked jumping attacks ??"e.g air dash jK.jS

I didn't play1.04 vs anybody yet so I'm asking : You don't like 6H here it because it could be countered by mashing fast normals ??

 

Yeah it loses to mashing a lot, although there's a timing where you can probably get it to hit meaty (but it can still lose to wake-up throw).

 

YRCing it is a very strong option. If you crossed opponents up before already with 6H, you can do the start up of 6H, YRC it before it crosses up, and get them with 2K.

 

This is probably the most conflicted change for Bedman, but I still think it's a better move overall.

[GKHiryu]

Do you think RC will now play a more important role in Bedman's gameplan? 5 minutes into training mode I've noticed that under certain conditions you can confirm into first hit of 5H, then RC > walk up > 5H (2hit) > 1H > air stuff. Previously that gave just barely anything, but now there's a lot to explore imo.

[Mefistopheles]

I dont think so, because his new Bnb has really much corner carry. I'd rather spend my meter here for Helios combos with post setups or unblockables in the corner. Unblockables already need 75% + from my experience you have to spend 25% for one yrc to win neutral.

[GKHiryu]

Yeah, if Hemi Jack setups turn out to be as useful as they now seem, that will probably be the way to go. At worst, we're getting much better "burn all meter to take away that last sliver of health" combos.

 

On Hemi Jack - if combo ends in corner with 236H we can go OTG c.S (or otg whatever) > 214H > Hemi Jack. I think this would be advantageous, but I'm mostly throwing ideas as I've little time to actually enjoy training mode. Will one token be enough to keep them in place long enough?

[NecroTheReaper]

You'd need them not doing anything for 100f (hemi startup+recovery according to wiki). If you discount the rough amount of time that they're doing waking up (~50f), you'd have to keep them blocking for at least another 50 frames. I dont think that setup will fill up another 50f. My math as far as Bedman's total recovery during hemi may not be righr, but even so, a single DV isn't gonna stop them from flat out mashing on you

[NecroTheReaper]

Can you actually YRC hemi too early?

[Tiamat]

Can you actually YRC hemi too early?

 

Assuming nothing changed, yes. You can YRC too fast and he won't put the sheep out.

[Poultrygeist]

So assuming I haven't missed anything let's talk about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB-RxmodobM

 

Is it viable?  Well, I guess it's as viable as anything else you can do off corner dust, maybe?  I can't tell.

 

If you're crazy enough to try it I think the input is

 

Corner 5D 6P c.S 6P c.S 236K 6P c.S 2S 2HS 2369S 214K 2K 5HS 2D 632146S (DVTB teleport triggers) 2P 5HS 883P 2K 5HS 214S (Hemijack hits) and then loop again from 5D.

 

It's training mode so I can't tell very well but it looks like it might be able to rebuild the meter as long as you have 50 to get it started.  What do you think?

 

EDIT: I'm a moron.  Read this: http://pastebin.com/DJDmPYYp

 

 

He doesn't always have to wait to recover obviously. You can Red Roman Cancel his Overdrive if you have an additional 50 tension. Red Roman Canceling his Overdrive after Task A' hits will immediately begin the teleportation (since that counts as him recovering).

 

The weird part is that the teleport will cancel the start-up of his Red Roman Cancel, thus Bedman never actually uses the 50 tension to Red Roman Cancel. He gets a cancel for free essentially.

 

That's precisely what's going on in the Video if you watch carefully when Deja Vu Task A' hits. Notice the Red Roman Cancel effects before he teleports.

[NecroTheReaper]

That's actually very interesting. So as long as you RC while a tele is out, you may get a free in AND a hemi setup. It'd suck if they DAA'd or bursted, but still.

[capcom is ass]

Is there a resource or post dealing with safe jump setups?

[Lynxfort]

So now with new combos that knock opp in corner and you have 2 seals " mainly DVC & air DVB" is there new powerful  combos..oki's .. mix ups or frame traps after ??

[NecroTheReaper]

Is there a resource or post dealing with safe jump setups?

I think they're scattered, but you can easily safejump any dp off of 2D or task C enders.

So now with new combos that knock opp in corner and you have 2 seals " mainly DVC & air DVB" is there new powerful  combos..oki's .. mix ups or frame traps after ??

Really everything stayed the same. It just got better. Your mixup is still good, deceptful uses of float, moderate 6H use, tick throws, and IOH. Though, it is much more rewarding to frametrap with 1/2HS because its safe now with jump cancels.

[capcom is ass]

I think they're scattered, but you can easily safejump any dp off of 2D or task C enders.

How exactly do you safe jump, what buttons do you use, and what frame count reversals do the setups that have been discovered beat?

Thanks In advance

[NecroTheReaper]

How exactly do you safe jump, what buttons do you use, and what frame count reversals do the setups that have been discovered beat?

Thanks In advance

You "can" safejump with any air normal cept j.D. the way it works is after a knockdown, jump towars them and hold back+air normal (my usual is j.S for its blockstun and combo options on hit). So in notation it'd look like 2D>walk>9>j.4S>(FD). As long as you land close enough to the ground to have your normal recover before their dp's actives come out, it should safejump. You also have to make sure it hits meaty.

Any dp can be safejumped like I said before, but Sol's is very fast and he has an average wakeup time. Elphelt's is also very fast, but its poop. The faster the dp, the harder the safejump (though Ky's is hilarious cuz it wiffs on most anything that low profiles).

Safejumps DO get beat by wakeup blitz though, and getting blitz'd can suck VERY bad. Mic it up with empyt jumps or deceptful float usage