[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

You dont need 6H, you can do c.S>5HS(2) and itll work on almost all of the cast. Those that it doesnt work on can go 6P>c.S>2369K. And he has current midscreen knockdown combos from his 5D right now. 5D>6236HS gives you a task C k/d midscreen, and on some characters even a full combo if you can do 5D>c.6S>236HS

[Verimeloni]

You dont need 6H, you can do c.S>5HS(2) and itll work on almost all of the cast. Those that it doesnt work on can go 6P>c.S>2369K. And he has current midscreen knockdown combos from his 5D right now. 5D>6236HS gives you a task C k/d midscreen, and on some characters even a full combo if you can do 5D>c.6S>236HS

 

in the corner you can do a bit better damage by putting 6p before c.s ie 5d>dash 6p>c.s>5hs(2)>236k>c.s>5hs(2)>1hs>236hs (on those characters that it works on)

 

in midscreen you can do 5d>dash 236hs>2p>c.s>236hs (pretty tight to execute, not sure if character specific)

[NecroTheReaper]

Typically I try to just put barely enough moves to get the wallsticm low enough for triple seal combos. Gravity starts screwing up after a certain amount of hits.

5D>6>c.S>5HS>236K>c.S>5HS>1HS>2369S>2P>c.S>236HS does like 140 on Ky and 3 seals gets some good mileage.

[Verimeloni]

Hope they give Bedman something new regarding dust combos midscreen in revelator

[NecroTheReaper]

Personally I really don't have an issue with 5D>2366HS. Damage is eh, but its a neutral on block overhead that leads to midscreen k/d with a seal. And if you manage to sweetspot it, you get a 2P pickup into an extended combo

[GcYoshi13]

Personally I really don't have an issue with 5D>2366HS. Damage is eh, but its a neutral on block overhead that leads to midscreen k/d with a seal. And if you manage to sweetspot it, you get a 2P pickup into an extended combo

 

I think it's too much effort for what it's worth. A slow OH with little reach and little reward. I fully endorse 5D in the corner though. I think you have better options mid-screen, but I can't make a good argument for that actually because jD also doesn't lead to much without a proper set-up.

 

In some MUs, where midscreen 5D combos are much more elaborate, I think you are correct.

[NecroTheReaper]

Typically I rely on crossup mixup midscreen with 6H and sj.>886FD>j.K. Is sj.886FD>j.236S ambiguous enough to warrant discussion? It looks like a fast crossup, and it puts you pretty far away on block so I'm torn about it

[GcYoshi13]

Typically I rely on crossup mixup midscreen with 6H and sj.>886FD>j.K. Is sj.886FD>j.236S ambiguous enough to warrant discussion? It looks like a fast crossup, and it puts you pretty far away on block so I'm torn about it

 

These notations somehow takes a lot of time to figure out in my head. If you're referring to the air dash FD cancel cross-up stuff, then yes it's very strong and is likely to open anyone up. 

 

The problem comes with the type of confirms after, which are very difficult to pull off. It's a very elaborate sequence and I have not seen any Bedman (US or Japan) pull it off in matches.

[NecroTheReaper]

Its a crossup air task B. Typically this is unsafex but even on the largest hitboxes, you only hit them once and fly right past them back to safety (typically 2HS range). Crossuo j.K obviously leads to more pressure options on block, but it feels slower. This may just be the way the moves look and not actual frames though.

[GcYoshi13]

Its a crossup air task B. Typically this is unsafex but even on the largest hitboxes, you only hit them once and fly right past them back to safety (typically 2HS range). Crossuo j.K obviously leads to more pressure options on block, but it feels slower. This may just be the way the moves look and not actual frames though.

 

So... 1 hit of air Task B as a mix-up option?

 

Seems like the weakest mix-up I've seen so far in this game.

[NecroTheReaper]

Maybe. It gets a reliable k/d on success though xD.

[Verimeloni]

Commence frame data speculation:

 

what do people think about 236hs post-patch? In 1.0 the frame data said it was -2 on block but from my experience of abusing it a lot I get away with it way too often, even when my opponents instant block it. Does it have something to do with the rocks coming from the ground thus the special having active frames / hitboxes even when the character itself is in recovery?

 

Or is the frame data for first active frame (in the falling portion of the move) AND because the characters aren't tall enough, they never block it in the first frame (not unless jumping), so practically it's not -2 on block?

[Zephyrion22]

Commence frame data speculation:

 

what do people think about 236hs post-patch? In 1.0 the frame data said it was -2 on block but from my experience of abusing it a lot I get away with it way too often, even when my opponents instant block it. Does it have something to do with the rocks coming from the ground thus the special having active frames / hitboxes even when the character itself is in recovery?

 

Or is the frame data for first active frame (in the falling portion of the move) AND because the characters aren't tall enough, they never block it in the first frame (not unless jumping), so practically it's not -2 on block?

 

It's practically -2 on block, always. Thing is the wave is an attack 0 level, meaning that you have to press your buttons very early since there is almost no blockstun to attack 0 levels. Also IBing it only removes 1 frames of blockstun, making it -3 so it doesn't significantly help getting the timing to mash through it. It's similar to Venom's QV which is a whooping -4 on block, and yet is somewhat hard to mash through it if you overestimate its blockstun. Most people actually either think those moves are +, or know they're - but fail to mash fast enough !

[NecroTheReaper]

Eventually they will learn to just start mashing blitz on you for using it. If not that, then depending on where you land, they could mash grab pretty freely. Typically if I use task C, it ends poorly unless you have a task A or A' floating towards them.

[Mefistopheles]

The thing is, people don't know the bedman match up or feelin bothered enough to learn how to punish it in pmode. There are few times where i can use 236c or j.236c against my locals at all, because they know how to anti air it.

[WonderTonic]

Any other Bed heads going to EVO?  I want to know who to look for and play cheerleader to if/when i get bopped.

[TagAnarchy]

I'm going. If you don't mind, I'll come over to your pools and cheer you on if I'm not playing. [emoji14]

[WonderTonic]

Awesome. Oh wow is that the same Rikir from here that you play in the first round? Out here taking each other out =(

[TagAnarchy]

Yup. Same Rikir. This is pretty much how the first round of my bracket will be.

[GcYoshi13]

I'll be at EVO as well. I have Moshige in my pool. I don't know any other names in my pool.

[WonderTonic]

Cool. The only ones I know from my pool are Koichi and Angelic(no idea who he plays in GG) Marlin Pie was moved to a diff pool. I'd love to be able to get out of mine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TagAnarchy]

Angelic plays Ram, but doesn't play as heavily as he did after an incident.

That said though, don't sleep on it, he still knows his stuff since I still play him on occasion.

[Tiamat]

I won't be there but good luck guys I hope you do well.

[NecroTheReaper]

Bring the Bedbro's honor and glory. HE DEMANDS IT.

[Verimeloni]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xhxhYiFST6O5Q071D_wnJ5o9MUsh0SOYmG4WqwltVFE/edit

 

it seems there'll be 4 Bedmen at evo, sadly no jp players