[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[Poultrygeist]

I think it would be beneficial if we added a section on safejumps to the wiki.  The wiki is sorely lacking in non-combo Bedman information, including stuff we've covered in this thread.  Plus I've been on break from GG lately so I need to re-prime myself anyway.

[NecroTheReaper]

Safejumps are pretty simple, but some of our move info isnt even finished, so I guess it wouldn't hurt. Honestly, lookin at the wiki, I've been wondering what the hell the actives on air task B mean. 6/6/2004? You're telling me the last hit has 2004 actives... riiiiiight xD

[GKHiryu]

So assuming I haven't missed anything let's talk about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB-RxmodobM

 

Is it viable?  Well, I guess it's as viable as anything else you can do off corner dust, maybe?  I can't tell.

 

If you're crazy enough to try it I think the input is

 

Corner 5D 6P c.S 6P c.S 236K 6P c.S 2S 2HS 2369S 214K 2K 5HS 2D 632146S (DVTB teleport triggers) 2P 5HS 883P 2K 5HS 214S (Hemijack hits) and then loop again from 5D.

 

It's training mode so I can't tell very well but it looks like it might be able to rebuild the meter as long as you have 50 to get it started.  What do you think?

 

EDIT: I'm a moron.  Read this: http://pastebin.com/DJDmPYYp

I have a question regarding the "2P > 5H > jc > 3j.P" section right before hemijack hits.

Ofc if they press nothing they lose, if they burst or SRK we could do nothing, but what if they just mash P? Can we input something different to both keep them in place but not lose to mashing fast normals? I guess maybe going for j.K during the rise of the jump and then cancelling into something like j.S > j.H would work but I'm not sure. Plus, is switching sides with opp before hemijack hits (the 883.P part) mandatory for the setup to work? I'm guessing it's meant to keep the opponent as deep in the corner as possible.

[Azzal]

Yes thought the same too. We loose to mashing if we do 3j.P. But I wonder if we could do something else instead of switching places. But maybe that would put the oppenent too far from HemiJack, and maybe our blockstring won't keep them in place long enough too let the sheep hit them.

[NecroTheReaper]

Personally, I'd do c.S>f.S>6HS>236P if I just wanted a side switch. If they can mash 2/5P regardless, I'd rather keep them in the corner and not myself. c.S>5HS>s.981K or j.983K may screw up any reversals they wanted to put in, and yoy could input j.D and task B away or block/continue pressure. You'll probably get a lot of people scared of this if you can do it consistently, so after a while it might be best to use 5K>c.S>f.S since all those moves are jump cancellable

Somethin I started doin lately with pretty good success. What do you guys think of round start 5K? Most low hitting pokes either mutually wiff or get punished at this range, which leads to immediate corner with 2H>2369S

[GKHiryu]

Somethin I started doin lately with pretty good success. What do you guys think of round start 5K? Most low hitting pokes either mutually wiff or get punished at this range, which leads to immediate corner with 2H>2369S

5K is absolutely awesome for a round starter. It stuffs a lot of pokes and is generally a good idea to start the round with. I go either with that or 2P, depending on the matchup.

[Tiamat]

I saw this in the vid thread a while back but didn't check it out myself. At 33 seconds in (time stamp not working for me).

 

https://youtu.be/arQRKcZfjYI

 

Did I just not know about this till now or is this ability to FD from his airdash a new thing?  I don't think he could do this before. 

[NecroTheReaper]

I... um.. huh. You know, I always felt that his airdash was missing it, cuz I know it wasnt possible before, but now that we have it... safe way to move? I... I think I'm gonna have a veeeery good time with this

[Tiamat]

It seems like a really big deal honestly.  If for example Sol is smashing your 6 airdash with VV you could 6 airdash to FD to block and punish the VV.  It also allows you to land more quickly.  For example if you are superjump height and do a 1 dash to move away the dash won't last all the way till you reach the ground so you'll slow down when it ends, but if you FD it is much faster.  

[NecroTheReaper]

Really you could sum it up as our airdash now has an advantage over a standard airdash. Before it was twice as slow, couldn't block, easy to countermash, but now if some *cough*annoyingblondbitchassassin*cough* runs in on you with j.P spam to catch ypur airdash, cancel into FD, let go, IB, and DUNK HER ASS.

Actually I just tested 886>FD>throw and it worked. He loses momentum but its still a grab from an airdash... holy shit

[sterkenburger]

You totally miss the point of the video. This is Faultless Defense Cancel, allowing you to do air cross up as shown in the video which is impossible to do normally. Also 886 > j.K > j.H throw is way more powerful Necro, i've been doing this for a while and i'm sure i shared it before. This look like alot of time gonna be spent in the lab to get this stuff down, as far as i know, all FDC is ass to input , timing wise.

[WonderTonic]

I think they got the point. Bedman pretty much has multiple ways of projecting a super jump now. While the cross up part is an amazing addition, this has many uses such as airdash>air throw (mentioned) above, new movement directions, very deceptive empty jumps, and of course the super jump style cross up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sterkenburger]

The only thing that i would say we would benefit from this is the cross up overhead from the use of FDC mixed together with a YRC B or C seal and maybe some DP bait with our 6 float. Now that we have a crossed up over head, YRC any B C seal is basicly godlike now with the possiblity of going low/high both side , throw with j.H drop or fuzzy j.K

[NecroTheReaper]

No, you completely misunderstood my point. Not 886>FD>ground grab. 886>FD>AIR grab. No other characters can cancel their airdash into an air grab in this game, and with Bedman's air grab range is actually very large.

Also, cancelling an airdash into FD directly hasnt been a thing in any Arcsys game I've played. Ever. You really missed how important the safe movement of this is. Say Axl is camping full screen with j.S and is wanting you to jump for 6K. What can you do? sj.886>FD

Edit: also should be known that cancelling airdash into FD isn't really an FDC like you're comparing it to other characters. You can cancel into FD at any point during the airdash (though doing 886>FD>j.6PHS is a challenge)

[sterkenburger]

Actually I don't think that you can simply FD any time during the dash and get the cross up though, i haven't have time to go into training mode and test it yet but from what I see in the video , he never did a 6 float. It was a 6 float canceled into FD and allow us to keep the 6 float momentum so i assume it is FDC and i doubt tapping FD anytime during the float would be similar to.

 

And yeah i'm focused on the offensive use of the this purely, the safe movement it provide help us a lot in certain match up like Axl as you mentioned and maybe against DP as well, maybe sol since none of his ground aa move can beat our j.K so he would probably like to DP or j.P to beat us instead.

[NecroTheReaper]

For the crossup, you have to be close initially from my testing, which why wouldnt you just do 5HS (2)>sj.883K for a j.K crossup. May have slightly more range for a crossup, which doesnt hurt, but still.

The cool thing about FD>air grab is it can punish jumpouts of airdash pressure. Since Bedman loses momentum quickly, typically he's close enough and below your opponent, he can airgrab pretty safely

[Tiamat]

So I guess attacks just come out faster from his airdashes than before.  Explains all the big corner throw combos he has now.  882 j.K is now possible.  883 j.S is now possible. Pre-patch these didn't have time to come out before landing.   

[Verimeloni]

What combo would people recommend for corner dust hits? I've been using 6p > c.s > 6p > c.s > 5hs > task C to get the opponent to stay in the corner and reset the icon. Personally I don't like the delay 6hs > task A' route 'cause the timing is strict and the projectile seems to whiff on some of the cast.

[NecroTheReaper]

Dust>6>c.S>5HS>236K>c.S>5HS>1HS>2369S>2P>c.S>236HS workes on a lot of the cast but not everyone.l for triple seals

[GcYoshi13]

Some instances when you hit a 5D near a corner (but not right by the corner), they will get a wall splat, but be very high up. This happens a lot after letting 5H be blocked (both hits) then doing 5D.

 

How do you typically confirm off of this? Do you just let them fall down before going into your strings?

[NecroTheReaper]

You cant let them fall too much, but the mechanics behind dust wallsplat seem to have changed a bit from 1.0 to 1.1. Before, the max amount of normals would continue the slide was 3, but now (6P>c.S)x2 is a route. Also, before, 5D>f.S>236K use to combo but now they tech after f.S. so I guess more chances to wall slam and less hitstun, so... throw more normals?

[NecroTheReaper]

My question now, what are our better FD bullying blockstrings? Bedman already gets a lot of pushback from his moves (which inherently makes him safe from most counter attacks if you jump back), but what if you catch on to their FD and want to make them regret using it? I know c.S and 2S become + in FD, but our walk speed doesnt seem to help us cover the distance fast enough to dtagger properly

[Tiamat]

I guess I just do jump cancelable normals into 986 jKPP or just whateaver I think is gonna get me back on them if I can.

[NecroTheReaper]

Most of the time it works unless their game plan is to throw SOMETHING out the second you jump. I fought a very different Leo player who used most of his meter for FD and would use his f.S (w)>5HS

[Poultrygeist]

A' is character specific I think.