[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[TagAnarchy]

@NecroTheReaper

Leo, Sol: if you let them in, you die.

Faust: (at least I've found) if you challenge him in an air to air battle or let him start item pressure from full screen, you're gonna have a bad time

Bedman: The mirror match is frustrating, but only if you allow yourself to be frustrated. Don't go into the mirror expecting to land fancy combos, since both players usually know the setups and how to avoid the most damaging parts of them. It'll play like Tekken where you thrive on stray hits until a good CH comes along.

Chipp, Venom: if you aren't patient in your approach/defense, you'll go 0-2 real quick.

That's what I got from that weekend. I wish I could've went against more of the cast. :/

[TagAnarchy]

None of that's new, but still something that needs to be cemented from what I saw some other Bedmen struggling with as I watched other pools.

[Filipinoman]

@Filipinoman, are you the street fighter playing Filipinoman? O.O

Regardless, welcome to the thread of one of the most unique/oddest characters in the cast. Ask anyone here for help and we'd be more than happy to assist in whatever questions you have.

Just know that you now have to help come up with bed/sleep related puns now that you're here. [emoji14]

 

yes yes yes that's me.

 

im actually really enjoying the game right now, but I'm garbage so still practicing and figuring out basic things (like being able to read notation fast and basic bnbs).

 

*insert bed pun here* ??

[Tiamat]

It's not surprising Bedman players would struggle with Chipp and Venom I think those are two of the worst. Feels like in the Chipp matchup the only normals worth anything during neutral are 2P, j.P, and j.S :p

[Poultrygeist]

I still feel like Elphelt and Sol are more annoying but Venom is definitely up there ugh.  

[GKHiryu]

I still feel like Elphelt and Sol are more annoying but Venom is definitely up there ugh.  

While not part of the evo crowd, I'd say Sol remains much more a test of patience than an actual unfavourable matchup for bedbros. Maybe on high level you really can't do anything, I haven't played a good Sol in Xrd unfortunately. Still, from what I did play I feel it's a case of "Will I keep focus after that efffin' post dp combo or not?" rather than "What the hell can be done here?".

[Tiamat]

Sol can be tough but I don't think it's a disadvantage matchup.  If your defense is good and you play the neutral well you can make it hard for him to get in and get his stuff going.  For the most part he doesn't really have a "free" get in tool.  He can't shoot something and move in behind it, or teleport, etc. and he can't compete at very far range so he has to come to you.  It's rough when he does get on you though.  Not sure if I've seen any 1.1 Japanese vids of the matchup.  

[Poultrygeist]

Sol is pretty much the reason I don't play this guy anymore.  It was never a concern of "can Sol be beaten consistently" but rather "why should I have to put in all this work when other characters can do it for less" and that's how I became a Faust player.  Nanigaderukana.

[GKHiryu]

Sol is pretty much the reason I don't play this guy anymore.  It was never a concern of "can Sol be beaten consistently" but rather "why should I have to put in all this work when other characters can do it for less" and that's how I became a Faust player.  Nanigaderukana.

That mentality is very unfitting for fighting games imo. What if in revelator Faust turned out to be weakened*? New top tier hunt? Not to mentioned that while hard as hell to get off you once he gets going, Sol can be kept away and baited if you move carefully. I know it's neither sol matchup nor general philosophy thread, but come on.

 

 

*(Yeah I know Faust will never be weak)

[TagAnarchy]

Really, all you have to do is zone Sol and Leo out with tasks and deja vu. It's actually really easy imo.

Air DJV A, grounded DJV C, and 1/2/3 HS are killers to those two when zoning them out. The air DJV A covers grand viper and DJV C covers a good chunk of the screen with 1/2/3HS being used to poke from full screen. Sinusoidal Helios or burst knocks them away, then you're good to go again.

[Tiamat]

Leo is a bit different from Sol for zoning cause his nearly fullscreen projectile will destroy everything.  Like, against Sol the ground level TK Task A can be good, but against Leo I think you almost always want to set it up above his projectile height or he'll just blow away the DV seal easily.  On the other hand he moves more slowly than Sol.

[TagAnarchy]

Agreed. If Bedman could have any buffs it would be a force break that instantly places a DJV mark, and making the marks not get sniped by projectiles akin to ky's grinder.

So many times have I had screen control until a stray projectile pops the mark I was using. :x

[TagAnarchy]

I digress. Has anyone found any more practical use for the Hemi Jack DJV setup?

[GKHiryu]

Really, all you have to do is zone Sol and Leo out with tasks and deja vu. It's actually really easy imo.

Air DJV A, grounded DJV C, and 1/2/3 HS are killers to those two when zoning them out. The air DJV A covers grand viper and DJV C covers a good chunk of the screen with 1/2/3HS being used to poke from full screen. Sinusoidal Helios or burst knocks them away, then you're good to go again.

One thing I have to pick on - TK DJV A may blow up Grand Viper, but not the regular air version. Air is too high and sol simply slides under it. It has to be TK due to its trajectory right above the ground.

[GcYoshi13]

Leo is a bit different from Sol for zoning cause his nearly fullscreen projectile will destroy everything.  Like, against Sol the ground level TK Task A can be good, but against Leo I think you almost always want to set it up above his projectile height or he'll just blow away the DV seal easily.  On the other hand he moves more slowly than Sol.

 

Leo's Projectile is large, and I don't think setting up Task A to avoid the projectile is a good idea. Sure you can snipe him with a DV Task A if Leo attempts to throw a projectile, but at that height, Task A is too easily avoided by just moving forward.

 

The best option for his projectile is to 3H him. The long start-up allows that kind of punish. 

 

You have to be careful about his dash special though. Its hitbox is very good and can hit you out of your jump too.

[Tiamat]

I'm talking about the S projectile not the huge slow one. I think 3H against the fast one is more of a guess so it's risky. If you do Task A or TK task A ground level there is good chance he'll hit you out with S projectile unless you are completely on other side of screen.

[GcYoshi13]

I'm talking about the S projectile not the huge slow one. I think 3H against the fast one is more of a guess so it's risky. If you do Task A or TK task A ground level there is good chance he'll hit you out with S projectile unless you are completely on other side of screen.

S projectile is still slow and react-able. Even more so if you can read his charge. Hitting Leo will remove the projectile.

 

There's little consequence for doing grounded Task A. Even if you make a bad read and get hit by the projectile, there's not much he can do unless he very close or he YRC'd it beforehand.

 

The problem with jumping too high and throwing Task A is that it gives Leo an opportunity to get in. You can Task B in attempt to change your landing spot, but this is very easy to punish. Furthermore, a Task A at that height generally never hits anything.

[Tiamat]

I'll look at it again I really didn't think it was reactable.

[Poultrygeist]

That mentality is very unfitting for fighting games imo. What if in revelator Faust turned out to be weakened*? New top tier hunt? Not to mentioned that while hard as hell to get off you once he gets going, Sol can be kept away and baited if you move carefully. I know it's neither sol matchup nor general philosophy thread, but come on.

 

 

*(Yeah I know Faust will never be weak)

A nerfed Faust would still be a difficult MU for those characters.  It's not a matter of Faust being top tier, it's a matter of him being a good character against them.  If they nerfed him that's one thing, if they take away his tools to shut them down then yes I would switch to someone else, like Elphelt I guess.

 

 

Leo's Projectile is large, and I don't think setting up Task A to avoid the projectile is a good idea. Sure you can snipe him with a DV Task A if Leo attempts to throw a projectile, but at that height, Task A is too easily avoided by just moving forward.

 

The best option for his projectile is to 3H him. The long start-up allows that kind of punish. 

 

You have to be careful about his dash special though. Its hitbox is very good and can hit you out of your jump too.

 

And even if he YRCs it can't you just cancel the 3H?  It's been so long since I bothered with Bedman, I don't remember if it was jump cancellable or not.

[Tiamat]

S projectile is still slow and react-able. Even more so if you can read his charge. Hitting Leo will remove the projectile.

 

There's little consequence for doing grounded Task A. Even if you make a bad read and get hit by the projectile, there's not much he can do unless he very close or he YRC'd it beforehand.

 

The problem with jumping too high and throwing Task A is that it gives Leo an opportunity to get in. You can Task B in attempt to change your landing spot, but this is very easy to punish. Furthermore, a Task A at that height generally never hits anything.

 

I tried reacting to his S projectile with 3H with the following recordings from round start distance and playing them on random.  I used a backward double jump to get distance and charge during it.

double jump back > S projectile

double jump back > forward IAD

double jump back > 236H

 

I'm not gonna say it's impossible but my reflexes aren't up to it.  By the time I react to the startup of the projectile it's too late, the projectile hits me before my 3H hits him.  I tried walking back a little to get more distance for reaction time but I still can't get it.  

 

About doing the air Task A, I mean from a backward normal jump.  This is high enough to not be in danger of being hit out by the S shot.  After that you can get to the ground again quickly by dashing downward.  

[Synyster17]

for 236b and 214b is there a way to control which side u teleport on?

[WolfCrimson]

^ I'm assuming you mean Task A' and its deja vu? (236K and 214k)
Bedman teleports to the side which the projectile head hits the opponent. If the head hits them from the front side, Bedman will teleport in front of them. If it hits them from behind, you'll teleport behind them.

There's no other way to control the side which you teleport to.

[Synyster17]

yes thank you very much

[Tiamat]

There have been times I saw it was going to crossup during mirror and I press 6 -_- Bad mistake.

[GcYoshi13]

I was testing guard point dash at one point in an offline session.

 

Successful guard point dash is 0 frames. Theoretically if your opponent throws out a projectile and you dash it, you have equal chances of throwing each other.

 

You can always block a meaty attack after a guardpoint dash or jump to evade a throw. I tested with a friend when I told him to throw Leo's H projectile and attempt to throw me after I teleported. He could not get a successful throw out of 30 tries when I held up after the teleport.

 

Not sure if you guys knew this.