[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

So meaty-ing is the only thing they really have.  Nice to know that since backdash gets us out of several meaty setups midscreen.  Plus you could end up mixing them up if you got 50% meter.  Dash through, jump forward, j.D and RC for IOH confirm.  Or dash, backdash YRC> any available punish you can do on them.

 

Actually, I've heard a few complaints on dash.  Do you guys think its OP and needs a nerf?  Someone local who constantly beat me says it needs CH recovery

[GcYoshi13]

So meaty-ing is the only thing they really have.  Nice to know that since backdash gets us out of several meaty setups midscreen.  Plus you could end up mixing them up if you got 50% meter.  Dash through, jump forward, j.D and RC for IOH confirm.  Or dash, backdash YRC> any available punish you can do on them.

 

Actually, I've heard a few complaints on dash.  Do you guys think its OP and needs a nerf?  Someone local who constantly beat me says it needs CH recovery

I think Dash is fine as is. I have never found someone who legit thought it was overpowered. There are many who have found it frustrating to deal with, but to be fair, Bedman needs this because his air options are too slow to escape the corner. His best option other option is to super jump, air dash up, then Task B YRC, which not only costs resources, but is a very long process.

 

Dash also makes a lot of match-ups much more bearable. Axl, Venom, Sol, Ky, and May would be much more difficult without it.

 

Plus it's not active until frame 3 (also add in the type if input it demands). The recovery is long enough to punish, so I don't know why you need CH state. You can get a heavy punish without CH.

 

The only thing that is pretty dumb is being able to YRC it. Makes exposing Slayer quite easy. Guard point Dash YRC and then punishing is pretty cheesy on some characters, but I don't care.

[NecroTheReaper]

There are so many stupid things with YRC that I'm not even gonna bother with those complaints lol.

 

Personally I've never thought it needed to be touched, because its like Relius' twirl.  No grab invul, no hitbox, just strike invul and punishable recovery (granted 3f startup changes its uses)

[Tiamat]

I was looking at what moves can be used to bait burst from the ground.  Shoulda looked at it long time ago.

All jump cancelable moves you can forward jump and airblock the burst, or you can backward jump to make it miss then forward dash.  If you're close enough it's possible to air throw them out of the burst, like from 5H(2).  

For non jump cancelable attacks, you can block a burst from a hit with 2P, 2K, and 2S. 

The moves you can't block a burst from after hitting: 5H(1), 2D, 6P, 6H.  If 5H or 2D hits from too far away the burst will whiff though.  

[NecroTheReaper]

Dont forget airdash is FD cancellable, which really makes IBing bursts stupid easy

[GcYoshi13]

I discovered that you can fuzzy people with jK if you catch them blocking something high.

 

Will need to find applications and confirms later.

[WonderTonic]

I had been messing with j.K fuzzies for a bit, however it was mostly with j.K on opponents wake-up. In training mode, if you set the opponent to crouch block, you can meaty j.K for an overhead so I thought I could do 214H > j.K > combo (which does work when j.K connects) however if you record yourself holding downback, j.K will whiff.

I couldn't find a way to have an overhead lead directly into j.K fuzzy without RC.  What I did mess with a bit ago was j.P fuzzy which seems to show a bit of promise.  Here is an example setup.

886 j.KPS > land > j.P works on everyone except Faust, Ky, May, Chipp, Leo, and possibly Elphelt.  In Elphelt's case 886 j.KPS works on her and so does ascending j.P on her standing blocking sprite, but I am unable to put the two together.  I have a feeling something does work for her though.

Edited August 12, 2015 by WonderTonic

[GcYoshi13]

I had been messing with j.K fuzzies for a bit, however it was mostly with j.K on opponents wake-up. In training mode, if you set the opponent to crouch block, you can meaty j.K for an overhead so I thought I could do 214H > j.K > combo (which does work when j.K connects) however if you record yourself holding downback, j.K will whiff.

I couldn't find a way to have an overhead lead directly into j.K fuzzy without RC.  What I did mess with a bit ago was j.P fuzzy which seems to show a bit of promise.  Here is an example setup.

886 j.KPS > land > j.P works on everyone except Faust, Ky, May, Chipp, Leo, and possibly Elphelt.  In Elphelt's case 886 j.KPS works on her and so does ascending j.P on her standing blocking sprite, but I am unable to put the two together.  I have a feeling something does work for her though.

Amazing. I really need to do more meaty Task A YRC set-ups.

[NecroTheReaper]

Did you test blocking these yourself?  In the past when I try to test an actual fuzzy setup, sometimes the AI blocks an air attack even if it would normally wiff overhead, meaning its not a true fuzzy.

[WonderTonic]

In the clip, that's me blocking the string while the recording does the inputs. I switch from high to low block after the j.S manually.

If the opponent manages to block the j.P you can do 83 j.H(whiff) > 2K> combo without risk of being thrown before 2K.

[NecroTheReaper]

I was playin yesterday and realized that I'm not using grabs as much as I use to.  While its not necessarily a bad thing, I had a question for other Bedbros.

 

Do you guys think its better to make them afraid of grab setups at the start of a match to make frametraps and anti-jump techs succeed more, or wait until they forget about grabs to start forcing them to think about grab setups?

[Tiamat]

@NecroTheReaper

 If you don't know anything about your opponent's habits I think it makes more sense to use frametraps first.  Regardless of the player's skill level most will try to mash buttons on defense.  It's also a risk vs reward thing.  If you try to grab and they hit you well, you got hit.  If you try to frametrap and they didn't attack, they just block it which isn't so bad.  Frametrap is clearly the safer option (though it will lose to DPs/blitz/etc).

Edited August 18, 2015 by Tiamat

[GKHiryu]

Especially since you get a lot out of corner grabs. A good opponent will be expecting them. Imo it's much better to keep from throw attempts until you really need to break your adversary.

[Verimeloni]

What route do you have to do on Chipp in c.s 5hs(2) 1hs > ??? > j.236hs 2hs 236hs?

On Potemkin does someone know a more damaging/advanced route than just ... 1hs 6j.s 3j.s (6p) 236hs?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Verimeloni

[TagAnarchy]

Redacted- wrong thread post

Edited August 18, 2015 by TagAnarchy

[GcYoshi13]

What route do you have to do on Chipp in c.s 5hs(2) 1hs > ??? > j.236hs 2hs 236hs?

On Potemkin does someone know a more damaging/advanced route than just ... 1hs 6j.s 3j.s (6p) 236hs?

Chipp's optimal route:

- cS, 5H(2), 1H, super jump forward, jK, air dash downforward, jS, Task C, cS, jump forward, jK, air dash forward, jK, jS, Task C

 

Potemkin's consistent route:

- cS, 5H(2), 1H, jump forward, jS, air dash downforward, jS, Task C, 2P, cS, Task C.

Alternative option (using air task B ender to have double seals)

- cS, 5H(2), 1H, jump forward, jS, air dash downforward, jS, Task C, 2P, cS, jump forward, jP, Air Task B.

Optimized but difficult/inconsistent route:

- cS, 5H(2), 1H, jump neutral or backwards, (delay, jS, air dash forward, jS, cS, Task C, 2P, cS, Task C.

 

Not trying to sound "Mod-y" or anything, but you I think this question better fits the combo thread.

[Verimeloni]

@Yoshi: thanks, I'll have to try those out. I posted my question here 'cause in my experience combo threads are more for posting combos, although that depends on the character sub forum kinda lot I guess.

lol i need glasses i guess

Edited August 19, 2015 by Verimeloni

[NecroTheReaper]

Dear god this is stupid.  I was trying to reply before but it went all wrong and... -embarrassing cry-  WHY?

 

But anyway, Tiamat got em.  Btw, arent those first and last combos the same for Pot?  Or does one have higher meter gain? 

[Tiamat]

You both are thanking me for GCyoshi's post lol.

[NecroTheReaper]

Why yes.  Yes I am.  Im sorry Yoshi, thanks for the post xD but my question still stands, is the third combo just optimized for meter gain?

[GcYoshi13]

Why yes.  Yes I am.  Im sorry Yoshi, thanks for the post xD but my question still stands, is the third combo just optimized for meter gain?

damage and meter gain since it has an additional cS for more damage, but the problem with that combo is the the delay between the 1H and the jS. Furthermore, you may get crossed up cS when you land, which drops the combo. I don't recommend attempting the optimized one outside of the corner and even then, just go with the 100% combo. 

[NecroTheReaper]

In the corner, I prefer tk task B combos just because ending in j.P>j.236S tends to leave the seal a little high for my liking.  Less damage, but it obscures the Bedman more when mixing up, so eh.

[GcYoshi13]

In the corner, I prefer tk task B combos just because ending in j.P>j.236S tends to leave the seal a little high for my liking.  Less damage, but it obscures the Bedman more when mixing up, so eh.

You can still do the Task B ender off of the more optimized combo. The hard part is at the beginning with the delayed jS and cS. After Task C, you can opt for either another Task C route or go for air Task B one.

[NecroTheReaper]

Its not just getting the task B seal down.  If you do j.P>j.236S, its higher up than xx>1/2H>2369S.  Its not a huge deal, but I like my task B seals low to the ground for oki

[GcYoshi13]

Its not just getting the task B seal down.  If you do j.P>j.236S, its higher up than xx>1/2H>2369S.  Its not a huge deal, but I like my task B seals low to the ground for oki

Then do cS, jK, air dash downforward, jP, Task B. Generally is very reliable.

Example for Pot: cS, 5H(2), 1H, jump forward, jS, air dash downforward, jS, Task C, 2P, cS, jump forward, jK, air dash downforward jP, Air Task B.

Task B will be low enough to hit crouchers. This applies to most characters outside of pot.