[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

That is some very good info for me.  I have had people use an instant low-profile move to avoid some higher-placed seals, so knowing I can get the best damage and still get a low task B seal is great.  Still think tk task B combos will be necessary for triple seal combos from dust or Helios confirms (skeptical on Helios)

[TagAnarchy]

Don't know how useful this is, but I found something odd about Bedman's airdash.

Not too long ago, someone in here figured some more uses for 88x>FD. To expand on this, i've found that if you 88>7FD, by holding the FD Bedman will still hang while still "blocking". Im actually messing with this as I'm typing this up, so i'm gonna bullet point my findings.

+88>[7FD] keeps bedman stationary for about half a second before doing a short 7 hop back
+[4FD] and [1FD] doesn't provide the same hang that [7FD] does, only lasting a fraction of a second, but allows for a faster descent to the ground.
+Same as any 88x>FD, throws can be executed.
+Releasing the 7FD before using up ~10%  tension will keep Bedman in his hang, ready to continue his dash from there.
+88x>FD in any direction will have Bedman keep his horizontal momentum while instantly losing his float.
+If he's hit while FD Hanging, he'll block while falling like a rock.

I imagine this might have some usage in potential advanced combo routes in regards to the loss of float, but here's what i've found so far. Hope this helped and hasn't already been posted. :x

[NecroTheReaper]

Seems like a much better way of doing safejumps imo.  882 is good, but is honestly too fast for my liking.  Also could set up min height j.D to bounce forward for more overheads without using j.K or j.S first 

 

Edit:  actually, couldnt this type of momentum shift be very useful for anti-AA stuff?  Like jump forward and fd hang to wiff punish their 6P?

Edited August 26, 2015 by NecroTheReaper

[Verimeloni]

Does anybody have any hemijack setups to share? I tried toying with midscreen c.s 5hs 1hs sj.k 3j.s 236hs 2p c.s j.p j.236s to find if there's any potential to setup corner hemijack but didn't really get anywhere, it feels like there's barely any stop frames during superflash

Edited August 31, 2015 by Verimeloni

[TagAnarchy]

The one I recommend over all else is knockdown> DJV B or C >DJV A' >Hemi Jack. The most important part about this is DJV A'>Hemi Jack.

Hemi Jack's super freeze is actually long lasting enough to have the DJV go at least half screen. Since the opponent is frozen and the phantom still moves, it'll always connect during super freeze.

I'll make a short video on this when I get home because this is something that needs to be seen. Explaining can only do so much for this for imagery of this odd combo.

...that and I'm on lunch at work, so I'm in a rush to type this. :p

[Verimeloni]

The one I recommend over all else is knockdown> DJV B or C >DJV A' >Hemi Jack. The most important part about this is DJV A'>Hemi Jack.

Hemi Jack's super freeze is actually long lasting enough to have the DJV go at least half screen. Since the opponent is frozen and the phantom still moves, it'll always connect during super freeze.

I'll make a short video on this when I get home because this is something that needs to be seen. Explaining can only do so much for this for imagery of this odd combo.

...that and I'm on lunch at work, so I'm in a rush to type this. :p

Sounds awesome, can't wait

[GcYoshi13]

I'm also curious about this set-up, because most situations will not have you get a knockdown with a Task A' symbol placed far enough for that to work reliably.

 

DV Task A and Task A' do not go away when Hemi-Jack is summoned, but normal Task A and Task A' will disappear (since Bedman requires the ball head for some reason to summon Hemi-Jack).

[TagAnarchy]

the more and more I try to find a proper way to explain this, the more I find how odd it is and difficult to explain. I seem to have success cliffnoting my thoughts, so I'll do that. This might get confusing regardless.

DJVA'> Overdrive Synopsis
-Connecting DJVA', hit or block, forces overdrive to completion through recovery frames
-Sounds unsafe, but all Recovery Frames become Invincibility Frames
---Example Hemi Jack's frame data (as an example) looks like this [SSSSSRRRRRRRRRR]
--- If DJVA' connects during the 4th recovery frame in my example it becomes [SSSSSRRRIIIIIII]+Teleport

This also works with Sinusoidal Helios without removing the active frames of that move. The only issue i'm having is finding a guaranteed way to incorporate Task A' into a combo or setup to get the proper DJV mark.
I'm trying to make a demo video, but I'm not satisfied with what i'm coming up with. It's not even me being nitpicky this time. It's one of those things i'd have to show you live just to answer any questions immediately or test things out.

This is the worst. Even if I understand how something works, games or otherwise, I always have a tough time explaining so it makes sense to others. I feel like i'm onto something, but it's just beyond my grasp. D:

[NecroTheReaper]

A weird dust setup I use to get hemi out goes like this.  Personally, dust isnt TOO hard to connect with if you have the proper cover from other things, but with an UB and being safe on block, I'd say its got some worth.

 

5D>6c.S>5H>236K>c.S>5H>2D>214K> safejump>hemi

Edited September 2, 2015 by NecroTheReaper

[Verimeloni]

the more and more I try to find a proper way to explain this, the more I find how odd it is and difficult to explain. I seem to have success cliffnoting my thoughts, so I'll do that. This might get confusing regardless.

DJVA'> Overdrive Synopsis
-Connecting DJVA', hit or block, forces overdrive to completion through recovery frames
-Sounds unsafe, but all Recovery Frames become Invincibility Frames
---Example Hemi Jack's frame data (as an example) looks like this [SSSSSRRRRRRRRRR]
--- If DJVA' connects during the 4th recovery frame in my example it becomes [SSSSSRRRIIIIIII]+Teleport

This also works with Sinusoidal Helios without removing the active frames of that move. The only issue i'm having is finding a guaranteed way to incorporate Task A' into a combo or setup to get the proper DJV mark.
I'm trying to make a demo video, but I'm not satisfied with what i'm coming up with. It's not even me being nitpicky this time. It's one of those things i'd have to show you live just to answer any questions immediately or test things out.

This is the worst. Even if I understand how something works, games or otherwise, I always have a tough time explaining so it makes sense to others. I feel like i'm onto something, but it's just beyond my grasp. D:

Could you put together a stream and explain it live?

[TagAnarchy]

I stream every Friday at 5pm MST on Twitch if anyone wants to see what I mean.

I don't mean for this to be a stream bump, but I'll do everything I can to explain to those that come over, as many times as necessary for those that aren't there right at the beginning of the stream.

It's a very simple setup in action and only takes a moment or two to explain, but I'm not very good at explaining frame data and stuff. :/

[GcYoshi13]

the more and more I try to find a proper way to explain this, the more I find how odd it is and difficult to explain. I seem to have success cliffnoting my thoughts, so I'll do that. This might get confusing regardless.

DJVA'> Overdrive Synopsis
-Connecting DJVA', hit or block, forces overdrive to completion through recovery frames
-Sounds unsafe, but all Recovery Frames become Invincibility Frames
---Example Hemi Jack's frame data (as an example) looks like this [SSSSSRRRRRRRRRR]
--- If DJVA' connects during the 4th recovery frame in my example it becomes [SSSSSRRRIIIIIII]+Teleport

This also works with Sinusoidal Helios without removing the active frames of that move. The only issue i'm having is finding a guaranteed way to incorporate Task A' into a combo or setup to get the proper DJV mark.
I'm trying to make a demo video, but I'm not satisfied with what i'm coming up with. It's not even me being nitpicky this time. It's one of those things i'd have to show you live just to answer any questions immediately or test things out.

This is the worst. Even if I understand how something works, games or otherwise, I always have a tough time explaining so it makes sense to others. I feel like i'm onto something, but it's just beyond my grasp. D:

I already know this at least, and I think most of us knew this after the Hemi-Jack Task A' RRC set-ups were discovered.

 

I thought you had a set-up where you Task A' and then use the slowdown of the hemi-jack overdrive to connect with Task A'. Then again, I think that set-up just simply won't work in a way that will place you in an advantageous position, since you need to wait for Hemi-jack to finish summoning to begin teleporting (if you opt not to RRC).

[TagAnarchy]

That second part is right on the money. I'll just show you tomorrow. You don't need to RC at all.

[Verimeloni]

@TagAnarchy: be sure to record a vod 'cause I'll probably be sleeping during your stream due to 9h time difference lol

[TagAnarchy]

After thinking it through, GCYoshi is actually on point with what I was trying to convey. No stream necessary to explain anymore, but i'm doing it regardless. The breakthrough of DJVA' turning recovery frames to invincibility frames was something I remember we found about a week or two before EVO. All I really did on revisiting it is that RCing is not necessary as you're usually at a safe distance anyway if you're even considering trying to attempt this. This come coupled with the fact that the DJV activations are quick as is so they don't really require RC to do the DJVA'>Hemi Jack thing. RC is only really useful if you see that the DJVA' didn't connect for any reason.

The main thing that needs to be worked on more than anything is just a set-up to have it occur when you want to or with just very few holes in the setup to exploit, none if possible.

False alarm folks, go home. nothing to see here. D:

[Verimeloni]

If task a' djv is basically all you need, shouldn't a double seal dust combo  suffice?

[TagAnarchy]

I'd imagine so. I think I might have just been getting excited about the final result of this. I need to grind through the prior steps in order for what I see in my mind to happen.

I'm gonna keep working on it to see if I can make a more guaranteed Hemi Jack setup. That's why I'm saying false alarm for now.

I assume the reason why I was having such a hard time explaining is that I'm missing a major something to make this work. What that something is, I'm working on.

[Generic_Soda]

Wow it's been a while since I've posted anything.

Quick question, what does everybody do after landing a reversal Helios? I'm messing around with stuff and want some opinions.

[GcYoshi13]

Wow it's been a while since I've posted anything.

Quick question, what does everybody do after landing a reversal Helios? I'm messing around with stuff and want some opinions.

Generally, cS, into Task C works on everyone. It's the one I do because I didn't fully optimize conversions.

Against opponents who are hit further away from Helios, cS may whiff. Go for 2H instead.

If the opponent is cornered and you hit Helios, they will wall splat and allow you to combo into 5D.

 

[Qelaion]

Hey guys. I'm new to the forums and somewhat new to GGXRD. Decided on sticking with Bedman after giving up on Ramlethal. Hopefully I'll be able to bring something to the table eventually, but I might stick to lurking until I'm decent enough to do so. However, I have a question:

Is 236H YRC any good as an advancement tool (Specifically against fullscreen opponents)? It seems to give a nice but somewhat slow, arching trajectory while still being able to FD and use moves out of it. Doesn't look like you can hover out of it though. Should I just abandon this and utilize sj.236S YRC? I assume that might be a better option in most cases because of the ability to float cancel the momentum, etc.

[GcYoshi13]

Is 236H YRC any good as an advancement tool (Specifically against fullscreen opponents)? It seems to give a nice but somewhat slow, arching trajectory while still being able to FD and use moves out of it. Doesn't look like you can hover out of it though. Should I just abandon this and utilize sj.236S YRC? I assume that might be a better option in most cases because of the ability to float cancel the momentum, etc.

Generally it doesn't have much purpose, but it's not explored a lot. Task B YRC is much superior to move to the other side if you're already airborne.

The problem with Ground Task C YRC is that you can't air dash it unless you jump install it prior.

[Mefistopheles]

My thoughts about Hemijack after half a year:

You have 4 solid opportunities when you can use it,
A) After any knockdown Hemijack Yrc
B) After Dust in the corner (Combo which includes Task A' into 2d 214K)
C) 214Hs Yrc 2D hitconfirm in the corner
D) 6Hs > 236P > RC Hitconfirm with Task C Seal in front of you

The thing about these option is, their require at least 75%, in a game where you can easily deny Burst with 50% Tension or convert tricky j.D fuzzies.

Thats why Option E) is the best one WHEN your enemey doesn't have burst:
Everytime when they get caught by Task C Seal, especially when you're far away. This happens more times as you might think. You can easily lock somebody down, id the Task C Seal isen't that old + Task A + 2/3Hs.

[GcYoshi13]

Getting Hemi-Jack out and keeping the opponent still is tricky. I'm not sure if there are guaranteed set-ups to get Hemi-Jack out successfully and keep the opponent still.

 

Sometimes after a combo, I do Hemi-Jack, YRC, and 2H, then replay a DV.

[Mefistopheles]

Yeah same reason you can't use Deja Vu Task B and C at the same time. The lockdown would be to damn good. There needs to be some holes.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Mefistopheles

[GcYoshi13]

Yeah same reason you can't use Deja Vu Task B and C at the same time. The lockdown would be to damn good. There needs to be some holes.

You're right regarding the Task B and Task C DV, but I do feel like there's a way to get Hemi-Jack out with 75 tension and can still get a meaty 2S or 2H on time.