[FB] Assault vs. Blast Burst Type Discussion

[burgerkong]

Now that you understand. You learnt!

 

Thanks! btw is this Ogu?  It seems oddly convenient that he's visiting from Japan and you join this forum at the same time, and that you play SF and IJ...

 

If so "I knew, I knew, I knew-"

 

And if not I didn't know

Edited April 4, 2014 by burgerkong

[KiraYamatoSF]

Thanks! btw is this Ogu?  It seems oddly convenient that he's visiting from Japan and you join this forum at the same time, and that you play SF and IJ...

 

If so "I knew, I knew, I knew-"

No. I am one of the top tier player from HK.

I joined here cuz i figured that if I want this game to expand. I have to give a hand.

Instead of being in our little worlds and saying that newbies cant learn gundam. I decided to try to explain and help anyone who wants to learn this game.

[burgerkong]

No. I am one of the top tier player from HK.

I joined here cuz i figured that if I want this game to expand. I have to give a hand.

Instead of being in our little worlds and saying that newbies cant learn gundam. I decided to try to explain and help anyone who wants to learn this game.

 

DAMNIT

 

I didn't know, I didn't know, I didn't know...

 

But thanks for joining, glad to hear your input :D

I definitely fit into the category of "newbie" LOL

[brett_]

Thanks! btw is this Ogu?  It seems oddly convenient that he's visiting from Japan and you join this forum at the same time, and that you play SF and IJ...

 

If so "I knew, I knew, I knew-"

 

And if not I didn't know

 

I generally just post for his sake when needed, though maybe I'll get him to try posting here himself to practice his english LOL.

 

 

Instead of being in our little worlds and saying that newbies cant learn gundam. I decided to try to explain and help anyone who wants to learn this game.

 

Well I'm glad you had a change of heart

[KiraYamatoSF]

Dynames is still better than Cherudim.  Melee>CS is really fast. And the fact that you have the AC during shield mode makes a big different.

Cherudim is more of a full support MS. Just not good enough.

[KiraYamatoSF]

I generally just post for his sake when needed, though maybe I'll get him to try posting here himself to practice his english LOL.

 

 

 

Well I'm glad you had a change of heart

It was like that in the beginning. I used to teach newbies here.

I  just don't like it when EVO has such players....... its... hard... to.... arghh..

[Tari]

Guys, while it's great that you're enjoying talking to each other, this thread was for discussing burst types, not specific suits or why someone joined the forum. Just pointing this out before it gets too out of hand.

[burgerkong]

I dunno, now that this thread has attracted a lot attention, I kind of want to start discussing 2500 burst types, mainly because I feel that they have the most flexibility when it comes to team comps (both 3k-2.5k and 2.5k-1k are competitive, and in 3k-2.5k opens the possibility for dedicated front-back roles or double-front) and I would like the opinions of KYSF, Brett, and other experienced players if possible.  Particularly on suits like God, Deathscythe, etc., which have strong close ranged properties.

 

@ brett, would it be preferable for me to open up a new thread in the 2.5k thread?  I'm assuming so, since it would be kind of weird to talk about it here, but we've already kind of strayed off topic ;P

[Tari]

I dunno, now that this thread has attracted a lot attention, I kind of want to start discussing 2500 burst types, mainly because I feel that they have the most flexibility when it comes to team comps (both 3k-2.5k and 2.5k-1k are competitive, and in 3k-2.5k opens the possibility for dedicated front-back roles or double-front) and I would like the opinions of both KYSF and Brett if possible.  Particularly on suits like God, Deathscythe, etc., which have strong close ranged properties.

 

@ brett, would it be preferable for me to open up a new thread in the 2.5k thread?  I'm assuming so, since it would be kind of weird to talk about it here, but we've already kind of strayed off topic ;P

I believe this thread will be moved into the general section, so discussion of bursts for any type of suit should preferably continue in this thread. Should wait on Brett to really decide, though, I suppose.

[burgerkong]

Guys, while it's great that you're enjoying talking to each other, this thread was for discussing burst types, not specific suits or why someone joined the forum. Just pointing this out before it gets too out of hand.

 

LOL, I was just thinking the same thing.  Sorry about that, I'm partly to blame (which is pretty bad considering I'm the one who made this thread).

 

Getting back on topic, are there any miscellaneous reasons behind burst choice?  For example, both Quanta and 00 have Trans-Am Quantization accessible during Burst, which isn't too important but is a small factor in their Burst choice.  What exactly is Ex-S's unique Burst effect?  The JP wiki mentions ALICE, but I don't really know it's exact effects.

 

Also, are there any others I'm missing?  I know Zeta and ZZ get superarmor, for example, but specifically for 3ks that might make a difference?

[KiraYamatoSF]

I dunno, now that this thread has attracted a lot attention, I kind of want to start discussing 2500 burst types, mainly because I feel that they have the most flexibility when it comes to team comps (both 3k-2.5k and 2.5k-1k are competitive, and in 3k-2.5k opens the possibility for dedicated front-back roles or double-front) and I would like the opinions of KYSF, Brett, and other experienced players if possible.  Particularly on suits like God, Deathscythe, etc., which have strong close ranged properties.

 

@ brett, would it be preferable for me to open up a new thread in the 2.5k thread?  I'm assuming so, since it would be kind of weird to talk about it here, but we've already kind of strayed off topic ;P

There are a lot of ways playing the game Burger. Maybe next time i will upload my maxi boost game play and show you the difference between different strategy.

If you are playing God and Deathscythe you can ask your 3K to support you instead and let you die first.

Here in HK we call it "the 3 down tactic" which literally means that the 2.5K can die 3 times instead of traditional 1 time for each player.

There is also the JP tactic where you can ask your partner to hold the enemie's partner for you and you go 1v1 using a melee suit destroying the enemie's partner while your partner is holding the other guy.

Anddddd a lot more situational stuffs.

Either way. Blast is still better due to the longer burst period.

[KiraYamatoSF]

LOL, I was just thinking the same thing.  Sorry about that, I'm partly to blame (which is pretty bad considering I'm the one who made this thread).

 

Getting back on topic, are there any miscellaneous reasons behind burst choice?  For example, both Quanta and 00 have Trans-Am Quantization accessible during Burst, which isn't too important but is a small factor in their Burst choice.  What exactly is Ex-S's unique Burst effect?  The JP wiki mentions ALICE, but I don't really know it's exact effects.

 

Also, are there any others I'm missing?  I know Zeta and ZZ get superarmor, for example, but specifically for 3ks that might make a difference?

Alice system gives EX-S different melee attacks. Melee attacks much much more powerful than what you have during normal mode.

00R and 00Q 's quatumization is a huge factor. It reduces your burst time everytime it quatumize.

[burgerkong]

I believe this thread will be moved into the general section, so discussion of bursts for any type of suit should preferably continue in this thread. Should wait on Brett to really decide, though, I suppose.

 

Thanks!  Hopefully Brett get backs to us soon, but I was hoping to ask you a more personal question regarding Blast types specifically.

 

I remember you had an unorthodox team with AutomaticCat @ SCR2014 (2.5-2k, God/Gunner), but I unfortunately don't remember who played which suit (I think you played God, though I'm not 100%).

 

I went back to look at the archive and I noticed oddly that God used Blast and Gunner used Assault, which seems inverse to the roles they would play in the team.  Is there a reason behind this, or just personal preference?  Just curious, since I was wondering about it before and kind of forgot until now :P

 

BTW great job on commentary throughout the event, Team Sadface OP

[Z-0010332536893]

@Z: While it's true that a 2.5k being overcosted in a 2.5/3k comp will usually manage to get a full burst after being hit once, this is only true if the 2.5k hasn't used a half burst, has done some damage (or blocked enough), and isn't being hit by a single move that will kill them instantly.

It's typically preferable to use a burst defensively when you're not already being hit. While Blast does still only provide 80% boost at a full bar, it's more than enough to escape. The extended trans-am time on Cherudim and increased boost efficiency make it pretty pointless to chase him for the duration that his burst is active. It's not necessary to choose Assault burst just because you want to defensive burst with less penalty. Instead, bursts should be used in such a fashion that you avoid having to worry about the penalty in the first place.

Choosing a burst type for a suit should be more about how it benefits the suit or how it benefits the player specifically, rather than how good it is to use it when you get hit.

The defensive burst is more situational. It's based on the unforeseen. And, again, I am talking about Epyon X Cherudim.

To clarify, the theory behind that composition is to have an aggressive Epyon which relentlessly pursues a target for notably longer than what could be recommended. In most cases, the opposing team will attempt double-lock tactics and formations, leaving them somewhat more vulnerable to the other partner. This is partly do to the matter of both opponents trying to shake off the aggressing Epyon, but other reasons such do exist, such as a pereived proximity to Epyon rather than the support and a general loss of focus caused by the baiting Epyon.

After Cherudim's confirmed the bait for taken, it can "rush down" the enemy that's not pursued by Epyon. The sheer breakage in formation and suppression from Cherudim is augmented by adding defense to Epyon during it's burst and adding more power via assault to the landing punishments Cherudim provides. Even the better NA players have been falling victim to this generalized strategy. JP or HK players might not, but not many of the players here will have any meaningful matches with the like, so counter-strategies to NA players are more valuable. It's certainly not absolute and requires improvisation, but it's a very legitimate strategy for the accompanying contexts that most NA players will experience.

 

 

 

This is more of an advance tactic thing.

Ammo isn't that important. Your health status and what are you going to do is more important.

For example, I myself will tell my partner that ima turn on my Ex BURST. So that my partner will help defend me while i am attacking one target with my burst.

Another example, 2500 + 3000 teams. Whenever i am low to around 300 I will tell my partner that i am going to cover he/she. So we could instantly switch from 3K front 2.5K back to the other way around. Once my partner is around 300 health, it will be my turn to get to the front.

And when my second 3K is out and my partner is still not dead yet, I will storm the front while my partner will wait till i get low. When i am low to around 400, my partner will come up to the frontline with me and we be doing the double front formation. That way, when my partner arrive in his 2nd MS he has around 120 health and i will be having around 200.

We will make sure that we are using every bit of our health to gain the most advatange.

(Copied from my another post)

Hope this answers your question.

As for what you said earlier.

Yes when you put it that way, it seems like you are trying to get more advantage.

But the problem is that cost over can kill you and make you lose the game quick.

If the opponent saw you using your burst that early. They could just kill you the instant you came down with 120 health.

That is why pros dont normally do that. It is still too risky.

^^^

What Kira says is certainly true. It is a more advanced technique/tactic. I guess you could say I contribute it as something for people to bravely learn and experiment with. (Sorry that I couldn't into quote for this one.)

 

Dynames is still better than Cherudim.  Melee>CS is really fast. And the fact that you have the AC during shield mode makes a big different.

Cherudim is more of a full support MS. Just not good enough.

Unfortunately, this is true as well. The plight of Cherudim is sad compared to Dynames, but I have a greater expertise with Cheru than Dyna, so I feel more confident in providing information on him and compositions involving him.

 

 

There are a lot of ways playing the game Burger. Maybe next time i will upload my maxi boost game play and show you the difference between different strategy.

If you are playing God and Deathscythe you can ask your 3K to support you instead and let you die first.

Here in HK we call it "the 3 down tactic" which literally means that the 2.5K can die 3 times instead of traditional 1 time for each player.

There is also the JP tactic where you can ask your partner to hold the enemie's partner for you and you go 1v1 using a melee suit destroying the enemie's partner while your partner is holding the other guy.

Anddddd a lot more situational stuffs.

Either way. Blast is still better due to the longer burst period.

 

Alice system gives EX-S different melee attacks. Melee attacks much much more powerful than what you have during normal mode.

00R and 00Q 's quatumization is a huge factor. It reduces your burst time everytime it quatumize.

I agree, for whatever it's worth. Especially on the importance of 00R and Quanta having better access to quantamization and on the three-down tactic. They're very useful if such a need arises.

[burgerkong]

Alice system gives EX-S different melee attacks. Melee attacks much much more powerful than what you have during normal mode.

00R and 00Q 's quatumization is a huge factor. It reduces your burst time everytime it quatumize.

 

Ah, ok.  Melee doesn't seem to be Ex-S's strong point anyway though due to his crappy mobility, unless they're really that godlike.

And ideally you don't want to be quantizing since it means you would be getting hit rather than doing the hitting, but it's probably better than getting hit anyways :P

 

There are a lot of ways playing the game Burger...

 

Yeah, it's definitely possible to let 2.5k front and die first, I've done it before in vanilla EXVS as SF or other long-ranged suits if I had a very melee-oriented suit as my partner (God, Deathscythe, etc.).  I've also tried to do it when I got paired up with 1k in shuffle, though it usually doesn't work too well to give them 6 lives :P

 

Would you use Assault or Blast in this situation though?  God has amazing buffs in both Bursts by virtue of being a G Gundam suit, and I'm not too sure as to Deathscythe.  And I'm assuming the back 3k would likely use Blast.

 

But it seems with the buffs both God and Deathscythe received to their ranged game (God Slash and reloadable assists + good vulcans, respectively), they can play a much more competent back role now.

 

I'll definitely agree Blast is the more stable and generally the solid option if you're not really sure which to pick, but Assault does have its uses on offensive suits and double-front full offensive teams IMO.

[burgerkong]

 

The defensive burst is more situational. It's based on the unforeseen. And, again, I am talking about Epyon X Cherudim.

To clarify, the theory behind that composition is to have an aggressive Epyon which relentlessly pursues a target for notably longer than what could be recommended. In most cases, the opposing team will attempt double-lock tactics and formations, leaving them somewhat more vulnerable to the other partner. This is partly do to the matter of both opponents trying to shake off the aggressing Epyon, but other reasons such do exist, such as a pereived proximity to Epyon rather than the support and a general loss of focus caused by the baiting Epyon.

After Cherudim's confirmed the bait for taken, it can "rush down" the enemy that's not pursued by Epyon. The sheer breakage in formation and suppression from Cherudim is augmented by adding defense to Epyon during it's burst and adding more power via assault to the landing punishments Cherudim provides. Even the better NA players have been falling victim to this generalized strategy. JP or HK players might not, but not many of the players here will have any meaningful matches with the like, so counter-strategies to NA players are more valuable. It's certainly not absolute and requires improvisation, but it's a very legitimate strategy for the accompanying contexts that most NA players will experience.

 

The tactic you've stated is sound and makes sense, I'm definitely not disputing that.  Epyon is bad because he has to get in super close to be exerting pressure on your opponent, but Cherudim can help mitigate this through quick downs from Main and Shield Bits.  "Rush down" might be a bit much though, considering that Cherudim's main punish is still really just going to be a mid-range sniper shot.

 

My main question is why Assault is preferable to Blast in this situation?  Assault Blast does not offer a super significant damage buff (~15 extra damage on your Main, yay), which is it's only contribution aside from the situational less EX gauge consumption on a defensive Burst.

 

Comparatively, you lose out on step cancelling your sniper, missiles, bits, etc. and lose out on the improved boost efficiency and reload on Shield bits in particular, all of which you would gain in Blast.

 

Again, the Epyon X Cherudim team tactic and play is sound, but I just can't understand why Assault would be preferable for Cherudim in particular.  As I stated before, Blast for Epyon is certainly acceptable, my main argument was your statement "Always use Epyon in Blast", which is blatantly untrue in my opinion.  If there's any suit that that statement is most appropriate for, it would be Cherudim.

[KiraYamatoSF]

Ah, ok.  Melee doesn't seem to be Ex-S's strong point anyway though due to his crappy mobility, unless they're really that godlike.

And ideally you don't want to be quantizing since it means you would be getting hit rather than doing the hitting, but it's probably better than getting hit anyways :P

 

 

Yeah, it's definitely possible to let 2.5k front and die first, I've done it before in vanilla EXVS as SF or other long-ranged suits if I had a very melee-oriented suit as my partner (God, Deathscythe, etc.).  I've also tried to do it when I got paired up with 1k in shuffle, though it usually doesn't work too well to give them 6 lives :P

 

Would you use Assault or Blast in this situation though?  God has amazing buffs in both Bursts by virtue of being a G Gundam suit, and I'm not too sure as to Deathscythe.  And I'm assuming the back 3k would likely use Blast.

 

But it seems with the buffs both God and Deathscythe received to their ranged game (God Slash and reloadable assists + good vulcans, respectively), they can play a much more competent back role now.

 

I'll definitely agree Blast is the more stable and generally the solid option if you're not really sure which to pick, but Assault does have its uses on offensive suits and double-front full offensive teams IMO.

 

The thing is power vs mobility.

And when in gundam games. Mobility is always better.

Lets say you are using god gundam, you used your charge shot at mid-close range then instantly rainbow step and chain into melee.

This is one of the hardest to evade situation.

Enemy have to step to evade your charge shot. That step gives you an opening for melee. Making it very very hard to defend against.

or You used your A and r-Step cancelled it into melee.

Burst just gives you too much more choices when it comes to attacking the enemy.

Now what do u prefer? More mobility and choices to attack the enemy OR more power?

 

[KiraYamatoSF]

The tactic you've stated is sound and makes sense, I'm definitely not disputing that.  Epyon is bad because he has to get in super close to be exerting pressure on your opponent, but Cherudim can help mitigate this through quick downs from Main and Shield Bits.  "Rush down" might be a bit much though, considering that Cherudim's main punish is still really just going to be a mid-range sniper shot.

 

My main question is why Assault is preferable to Blast in this situation?  Assault Blast does not offer a super significant damage buff (~15 extra damage on your Main, yay), which is it's only contribution aside from the situational less EX gauge consumption on a defensive Burst.

 

Comparatively, you lose out on step cancelling your sniper, missiles, bits, etc. and lose out on the improved boost efficiency and reload on Shield bits in particular, all of which you would gain in Blast.

 

Again, the Epyon X Cherudim team tactic and play is sound, but I just can't understand why Assault would be preferable for Cherudim in particular.  As I stated before, Blast for Epyon is certainly acceptable, my main argument was your statement "Always use Epyon in Blast", which is blatantly untrue in my opinion.  If there's any suit that that statement is most appropriate for, it would be Cherudim.

Let me help you make this tactic solid and powerful.

Change cherudim into Susanoo. Supports stronger than Cherudim. Can storm the front. Unlimited ammo. Plus free trans-arm =?? Victory

[burgerkong]

Let me help you make this tactic solid and powerful.

Change cherudim into Susanoo. Supports stronger than Cherudim. Can storm the front. Unlimited ammo. Plus free trans-arm =?? Victory

 

Ah ok.  I was referring to Z-001's example specifically since that was the team comp listed, but Susanoo makes more sense for a more double-front type team with Epyon.

 

BTW, that's a suit that gains next to nothing from Blast outside of its better BD efficiency and duration.  Unlimited ammo on its CSa pizza, no reload on Trans-Am (thus nothing important to reload), so I can see Assault being used on it too.

 

Is step cancelling CS really good?  It seems step-cancelling anything is very good with the fuwastep buff in this game, but since I haven't played it yet I can't test it for myself T___T

 

Honestly all this talk is making me jealous, I wanna play so bad >

[KiraYamatoSF]

Ah ok.  I was referring to Z-001's example specifically since that was the team comp listed, but Susanoo makes more sense for a more double-front type team with Epyon.

 

BTW, that's a suit that gains next to nothing from Blast outside of its better BD efficiency and duration.  Unlimited ammo on its CSa pizza, no reload on Trans-Am (thus nothing important to reload), so I can see Assault being used on it too.

 

Is step cancelling CS really good?  It seems step-cancelling anything is very good with the fuwastep buff in this game, but since I haven't played it yet I can't test it for myself T___T

 

Honestly all this talk is making me jealous, I wanna play so bad >

 

Don't get me wrong. Susanoo + Epyon is not a double front tactic. Susanoo is just another support shooting MS with BURST damage.

The Pizzas of Susanoo can give Epyon a lot of opening. The mobility of Susanno can save Epyon when Epyon got countered by melee.

The TRANS-ARM OF SUSANOO.... MAKES U THE GOD OF SHOOTING PIZZAS. PLUS TONS OF DAMAGE. without even using your burst!

[Tari]

Step cancelling moves that cannot normally be step cancelled is very strong. Using God as an example, since I play that suit, you have to realize that under normal circumstances, he is limited to boost cancelling all of his ranged options: tenkyoken, fire pillar, and god slash (though this can be cancelled directly into melee). In Blast, he can step cancel every single one of those. It's highly annoying for the opponent to deal with it, and it becomes virtually impossible to melee God Gundam when he's bursted with Blast active.

Having said that, God Gundam can be played with Assault burst. The speed gain and damage buff are very noticeable on him, so if a player is very sure they're going to land their hits and they're more focused on just dealing damage (or being silly with burst attacks -cough-), Assault burst is more than fine.

I'd generally recommend Blast on him, though. It's more advantageous in almost every way.

The TRANS-ARM OF SUSANOO.... MAKES U THE GOD OF SHOOTING PIZZAS.

I like this quote, haha.

[burgerkong]

Step cancelling moves that cannot normally be step cancelled is very strong. Using God as an example, since I play that suit, you have to realize that under normal circumstances, he is limited to boost cancelling all of his ranged options: tenkyoken, fire pillar, and god slash (though this can be cancelled directly into melee). In Blast, he can step cancel every single one of those. It's highly annoying for the opponent to deal with it, and it becomes virtually impossible to melee God Gundam when he's bursted with Blast active.

Having said that, God Gundam can be played with Assault burst. The speed gain and damage buff are very noticeable on him, so if a player is very sure they're going to land their hits and they're more focused on just dealing damage (or being silly with burst attacks -cough-), Assault burst is more than fine.

I'd generally recommend Blast on him, though. It's more advantageous in almost every way.

 

I see, I guess Blast really is that amazing.  I guess I can understand why so many players use it so much.  Thanks, I understand a lot better why Blast is so popular.  Though it doesn't explain why AutomaticCat was playing Assault on Gunner of all things XD

 

And we definitely need more LOVE LOVE TENKYOKEN man, none of that double god finger bullshit with sailor moon gundam

 

I mean it summons the burger king, which is basically my username but with a letter interchanged

 

Don't get me wrong. Susanoo + Epyon is not a double front tactic. Susanoo is just another support shooting MS with BURST damage.

The Pizzas of Susanoo can give Epyon a lot of opening. The mobility of Susanno can save Epyon when Epyon got countered by melee.

The TRANS-ARM OF SUSANOO.... MAKES U THE GOD OF SHOOTING PIZZAS. PLUS TONS OF DAMAGE. without even using your burst!

Oh, ok.  I see, I see.

 

Trans-Am Susanoo the Pizza God.  If only Graham was Italian...

 

But yeah, I know brett mained Susanoo in vanilla, does he still play them now?  I know he played Susa a couple of times when he was playing with Ogu on stream, and I recall he picked Assault, but maybe step-cancelling pizzas is too good to pass up?

[KiraYamatoSF]

I see, I guess Blast really is that amazing.  I guess I can understand why so many players use it so much.  Thanks, I understand a lot better why Blast is so popular.  Though it doesn't explain why AutomaticCat was playing Assault on Gunner of all things XD

 

And we definitely need more LOVE LOVE TENKYOKEN man, none of that double god finger bullshit with sailor moon gundam

 

I mean it summons the burger king, which is basically my username but with a letter interchanged

 

Oh, ok.  I see, I see.

 

Trans-Am Susanoo the Pizza God.  If only Graham was Italian...

 

But yeah, I know brett mained Susanoo in vanilla, does he still play them now?  I know he played Susa a couple of times when he was playing with Ogu on stream, and I recall he picked Assault, but maybe step-cancelling pizzas is too good to pass up?

 

Susanoo has really nth to cancel with from the beginning lol so its really ok to use assualt.

I never played with brett or anyone from here or NA.

I taught few newbies from Gamefaq but I never really play with NA players since i would be lagging hard and it wouldnt be fun for the NA players either.

Not trying to say every NA player is bad or what. Just saying that there is still a huge gap and there is no need to ruin the fun.

It is reasonable tho. If an arcade player who played gundam for almost 10 years cannot win a player who learned the game for 2 years then that player really does have some problem lol.

Same story. if you guys play more now and discuss more. Take away the ignorance and accept advice. You guys can be like the HKs and Japs too.

[Tari]

I see, I guess Blast really is that amazing.  I guess I can understand why so many players use it so much.  Thanks, I understand a lot better why Blast is so popular.  Though it doesn't explain why AutomaticCat was playing Assault on Gunner of all things XD

 

And we definitely need more LOVE LOVE TENKYOKEN man, none of that double god finger bullshit with sailor moon gundam

 

I mean it summons the burger king, which is basically my username but with a letter interchanged

 

Oh, ok.  I see, I see.

 

Trans-Am Susanoo the Pizza God.  If only Graham was Italian...

 

But yeah, I know brett mained Susanoo in vanilla, does he still play them now?  I know he played Susa a couple of times when he was playing with Ogu on stream, and I recall he picked Assault, but maybe step-cancelling pizzas is too good to pass up?

AutomaticCat was playing Assault on Gunner because we were trying a lot of new things out, including having a very aggressive, close-range Gunner. We wanted to see how effective it would be to have a Gunner that half-bursted as much as possible in as offensive a position as possible.

Additionally, while she does get the option to step out of her main and summons and whatnot (pretty annoying), she still verniers whenever she shoots anything, so she doesn't enjoy quite the same benefits from the on-angle stepping that other ranged suits do, who can choose when they want to vernier and when they want to simply fall while shooting. Since her main is so powerful, though, and it refills so fast in Blast, she remains very, very potent in Blast burst.

Assault burst is also more familiar for long-time Gunner players who enjoy throwing her burst attack out, because she had the unique quality in EXVS vanilla of not losing her boost after using her burst attack. This is only true if she plays in Assault burst, now, same as any other suit. Since she can combo her burst attack into her main, it can be argued that Assault is safer for that purpose.

Gunner is one of the odd ranged suits you'll actually see a pretty good number of people play in Assault burst.

[Z-0010332536893]

The tactic you've stated is sound and makes sense, I'm definitely not disputing that.  Epyon is bad because he has to get in super close to be exerting pressure on your opponent, but Cherudim can help mitigate this through quick downs from Main and Shield Bits.  "Rush down" might be a bit much though, considering that Cherudim's main punish is still really just going to be a mid-range sniper shot.

 

My main question is why Assault is preferable to Blast in this situation?  Assault Blast does not offer a super significant damage buff (~15 extra damage on your Main, yay), which is it's only contribution aside from the situational less EX gauge consumption on a defensive Burst.

 

Comparatively, you lose out on step cancelling your sniper, missiles, bits, etc. and lose out on the improved boost efficiency and reload on Shield bits in particular, all of which you would gain in Blast.

 

Again, the Epyon X Cherudim team tactic and play is sound, but I just can't understand why Assault would be preferable for Cherudim in particular.  As I stated before, Blast for Epyon is certainly acceptable, my main argument was your statement "Always use Epyon in Blast", which is blatantly untrue in my opinion.  If there's any suit that that statement is most appropriate for, it would be Cherudim.

In theory, Cherudim will have 1-2 bursts in this match. He will almost always have one burst (or nearly have one) on respawn or have one at the time at which the opponents are on their last legs and the overcost opponent has spawned. If the composition is 3k/2.5k, it will only take one shot from his assasult burst burst main to instantly kill the overcost target. With that approximate 15% buff, you have a 130 dmg output elevated to 149.5. Adjusting for the small defense buffs a unit gains at the end of it's life, it shouldn't deal less than 140.5 dmg. Another important aspect is that at the end of a combo, the proration on main will still provide more damage compared to ending it in Blast. If the opponent is the more sustainable 3k/2k, then success is dependent on Cheru virtually not dying. The damage buffs are still available to help reduce the overcost 2k's HP quickly and at a relatively safe distance.

The greater speed compared to Blast is also useful. It offers more entrance and escape mobility to Cherudim's movements. Also, the loss of cancelling those ranged attacks is not that great. This is because none of Cherudim's attacks are as appropriate for laying down heavy barrages as Kshatriya's and DeltaPlus' are. There is a careful order to maximizing damage on Cherudim's attacks, due to each one being made for making fast downs. I refer you to some of the comments I've made on Cherduim's discussion in the 2500 board.

I also want to provide you with replays of my usage of this composition. I have to check my Replay List to see if I still have them or have to make more matches of it, though. Also, you should check out the discussion page for Epyon, as well, if you're more curious on this issue. My regular Epyon tag is Tryflozn. He's a very skilled user regarding Epyon.

 

Let me help you make this tactic solid and powerful.

Change cherudim into Susanoo. Supports stronger than Cherudim. Can storm the front. Unlimited ammo. Plus free trans-arm =?? Victory

That's valid, I'll agree. I recommend using whichever MS the individual is more acquainted with however. Unfortunately, that's sad little Cheru for me.