[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[heavymetalmixer]

Well, according to the first post, it's even more unsafe now, but somehow I doubt it. In the vids I see of Ragna getting his GH blocked, they don't really punish it. I could be wrong though.

EDIT: OK just saw Nu's 2B hit Ragna after GH was blocked, but it wasn't CH. Maybe the Ragna didn't block?

EDIT 2: OK just realised that if GH is unsafe on block, then Ragna's overhead options are complete shit. 6B was nerfed because of no C follow-ups, so damage off of 6B isn't good unless rapid. GH, while unsafe on block, has better follow-up options than 6B, but yeah unsafelol. BS is just BS. Slow-ass overhead that can be blocked really easily, and on normal hit cannot be followed up.

But that's OK, that means that Ragna is now the zoner character he was supposed to be

Not only with Ragna, every overhead in this game is getting even worse than before, like if they werren't bad already.

[Tong]

EDIT: OK just saw Nu's 2B hit Ragna after GH was blocked, but it wasn't CH. Maybe the Ragna didn't block?

Recovery state doesn't guarantee Counter Hit state.

[WolfCrimson]

Recovery state doesn't guarantee Counter Hit state.

Ah OK.

Well... shit.

[Dont_Explain]

Thankfully his throw combos are still good. In fact midscreen he gets more damage now http://youtu.be/UN5UKOSAOUg?t=7m31s. Corner throws still do a little over 3k (I don't have a video sorry).

Edited December 4, 2012 by Dont_Explain

[Fluck]

Oh yeah Souji says Ragna is strong just so everyone knows. He says BS and dash cancellable DS are strong, and he says BBS are scrubs don't listen to them!

[WolfCrimson]

Oh yeah Souji says Ragna is strong just so everyone knows. He says BS and dash cancellable DS are strong, and he says BBS are scrubs don't listen to them!

Oh cool!

But just to be sure... does he say CP Arakune is weak?

[Fluck]

He says he hasn't really researched CP Arakune yet, but he says Arakune is broken in all the versions of the game before CP.

[WolfCrimson]

Ah OK then we can take his word then.

[skd]

i wouldnt say that ragna 6B is that terrible, at least the 6B 5D gatling still exists? Doesnt it lead into 4k near the corner with 6B 5D 623D 236C 236C 3C 22C etc?

[WolfCrimson]

i wouldnt say that ragna 6B is that terrible, at least the 6B 5D gatling still exists? Doesnt it lead into 4k near the corner with 6B 5D 623D 236C 236C 3C 22C etc?

It does?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

It's hard to say right now because the general quality of footage available to us has such variance. It seems like the good players are sticking to basic stuff in terms of combos/mixups and are either not really willing to experiment or have not come to terms with the fact that old stuff doesn't work anymore. It seems like most of the time when one of the established players attempts a new combo that ends up dropping, it's something that would have made sense and worked in older versions of the game; guess the new combo rate really makes a difference? Meanwhile the players who attempt new stuff don't necessarily fare well all the time, and there's a nice chunk of players who just don't seem very good. All it does is just make me want to play the game myself.

I really wish the players would mess with Overdrive a little more, it seems to have so much potential with Ragna. I was just watching a match where a player ended a combo in the last round with 5D > CS and it left a sliver of life on the opponent's bar. I'm sitting there thinking "If he just activated OD on the 5D and did dash 5D > YnK, the other guy would have died instead!" But eh, won't know until either someone releases a combo compilation (maybe Tetsu!) or we get our hands on the console version.

I'm surprised at how often players get away with spamming Blood Scythe, it's really slow and stronger players have already demonstrated it can be interrupted easily. TK Blood Scythe is another story though, if anything that move should be abused more, assuming it has the same tiny recovery. Faster, jumps forward more so it crosses up more easily, etc etc etc. I also like when short air combos end with BS, I like the way it drags the opponent back to the ground and leaves you in prime position to tech catch. New throw combos with HF are sick too, they have absurd corner carry.

[KayEff]

It seems like most of the time when one of the established players attempts a new combo that ends up dropping, it's something that would have made sense and worked in older versions of the game; guess the new combo rate really makes a difference?

i read in an interview with pachi that the untech system got changed so that it doesn't rely on proration anymore. now it's something along the lines of time-based, just like CT (or it could be hit-based. sometimes the latter case seems more evident but we can't really confirm). CH 6A > 214B >> 214D > 6A > j.214D > 5B > 5C > hjc j.C > j.D > jc j.C worked in CP, so it's probably really weird for most people

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Yeah I read about the time-based changes as well. Guess it would take a while for people to get used to. I just see so much potential with Ragna's new tools, I would hate for them to end up being heavily restricted by the new combo system.

[KayEff]

the only good ragnas in japan will never get recorded, best example is kirisame （　´∀｀）

[Tong]

I have yet to see someone perform 5B 6A TK BS 5B... read somewhere here it was possible.

Also, can't YnK combo outside BK? Or is CS a better option?

[mAc Chaos]

Oh cool!

But just to be sure... does he say CP Arakune is weak?

lol I love how this is the test for him.

I almost want to think Arakune isn't as ridiculous this time around compared to all the 8k combos everybody else is throwing around. But we should know better by now.

But anyway, back to Ragna.

[Yggjrasil]

the only good ragnas in japan will never get recorded, best example is kirisame （　´∀｀）

Or there's extremely rare footage of them, like...Komomo, Lucky, and Wanakr.

[heavymetalmixer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH7JXPNr3Ww#t=2m3s

Looks like Berial edge CH causes crouching state.

[Final Ultima]

Hazama just crouched right before it hit, you can tell if you look through it slowly.

[SolheartStud]

i wouldnt say that ragna 6B is that terrible, at least the 6B 5D gatling still exists? Doesnt it lead into 4k near the corner with 6B 5D 623D 236C 236C 3C 22C etc?

I'd definitely wanna see this. Speaking of 6B I was wondering if you could do 6B> DS> 5C> etc. Or wouldn't that work because DS doesn't start up fast enough and or DS has too much recovery? Maybe dash canceling it would lead to something then?

[Dont_Explain]

Apparently 5D(2) > HF(1) > Stuff works. If there's a lot hits beforehand I imagine its: Whatever > 5D(2) > HF(1) > 5A>5B > DID ender

Maybe after 2D RC > Midscreen you can do 5C > 5D(1) > HF > stuff

otherwise you just do 5D(2) > HF(1) > Stuff

[xlolxlolx]

highly doubt that, i dont think its even possible to do ds>5b on standing opponent anymore, at least all the attempts ive seen failed

depending on how good p2 on 214a is you might be able to do swag shit like 5d(1)>214a>dash 5b>6a>j.214d>dash 5b>stuff

[Dont_Explain]

Well this worked AA CH 5C>5B>5D(1)>GH(1)>5A>5B>5D(2)>HF(1)>5A>5B>5D(2)>D ID and that was 3.4k

If we could do Dash 5b> 6A > j.214d then Ragna isn't even nerfed as far as I'm concerned that would be EX damage or close to it and corner carry more than likely. Only difference from EX to CP would be we just couldn't do it easily off 6B.

[xlolxlolx]

well from that height sounds like it lets you combo from launcher>214a makes it seem like stuff on standing>6a>214a>5a/5b is proly universal now and looks like my gh combos still kinda work in cp?

[Fluck]

i wouldnt say that ragna 6B is that terrible, at least the 6B 5D gatling still exists? Doesnt it lead into 4k near the corner with 6B 5D 623D 236C 236C 3C 22C etc?

6B 5D has a shitton of pushback so ID might not connect, I would think.