[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Kuraudo_V6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB3ltNCw5mk

That's part 2, but some pretty entertaining matches of some balls to the walls rushdown Ragna. 02:51 - Had no idea that counter 5B can link into itself if the opponent's hit in the air. Even without the overdrive at the end, it'll deal at least 3.5k

[WolfCrimson]

I got 3 questions about CP Ragna, hope someone knows enough about him to answer these:

1. Has TK GH become useless? I hardly see it being used either as a starter or midcombo. Back in the day I remember TK GH was used to bypass the keri age and continue the combo since keri age had/has bad proration, is this not possible anymore?

2. Is 5D> immediate BS still possible late in the combo? BS has a lot of lifesteal, doing it late in a combo where the lifesteal modifier has been cranked up makes it an ideal ender if you wanna get more life instead of dealing damage (not sure how viable this strategy is, the lifesteal would have to be pretty good).

3. Does 6C>DS not work?

If possible, can someone ask these to the japanese players on the jBBS/twitter?

Edited March 15, 2013 by WolfCrimson

[Fistmaster049]

I got 3 questions about CP Ragna, hope someone knows enough about him to answer these:

1. Has TK GH become useless? I hardly see it being used either as a starter or midcombo. Back in the day I remember TK GH was used to bypass the tsuika and continue the combo since tsuika had bad proration, is this not possible anymore?

2. Is 5D> immediate BS still possible late in the combo? BS has a lot of lifesteal, doing it late in a combo where the lifesteal modifier has been cranked up makes it an ideal ender if you wanna get more life instead of dealing damage (not sure how viable this strategy is, the lifesteal would have to be pretty good).

3. Does 6C>DS not work?

If possible, can someone ask these to the japanese players on the jBBS/twitter?

1. I think it is still usable, I think people just think BS is a better move for that purpose

2. Not sure outside of OD, gonna have to check that one

3. Nah, remember the upper hitbox on DS is tiny now

[WolfCrimson]

1. I think it is still usable, I think people just think BS is a better move for that purpose

Air BS has a base damage of 900 with a p2 of 82, and has lifesteal, while TK GH has a 700 base damage and p2 of 92. That's a big difference in P2, if TK GH works midcombo I'd go for it every single time.

3. Nah, remember the upper hitbox on DS is tiny now

DS's vertical hitbox is smaller than before, but not by that much.

[WolfCrimson]

Double post, I know, but seems like xx>6C>6D>BS>5B works midscreen. And is good for damage too.

[KayEff]

1. TK GH can only be comboed after if it's a CH starter, what with the way that 6A works now

2. i'm gonna assume you're talking about while in OD. all depends on what starter you use, and how you define "late" in the combo. generally though, 5D has a LOT of hitstun, so i wouldn't dismiss the case that 5D > ground BS would work even in severe time-hitstun decay

3. pretty sure 6C > DS doesn't work anymore. should work in fatal.

also 6C > 6D > BS > 5B has been known to connect anywhere for some time now.

Edited March 15, 2013 by KayEff

[WolfCrimson]

1. TK GH can only be comboed after if it's a CH starter, what with the way that 6A works now

2. i'm gonna assume you're talking about while in OD. all depends on what starter you use, and how you define "late" in the combo. generally though, 5D has a LOT of hitstun, so i wouldn't dismiss the case that 5D > ground BS would work even in severe time-hitstun decay

1. So even mid-combo it doesn't work? What change to 6A made it not possible? AFAIK 6A only launches higher now, which should offset the increased fall speeds in CP.

2. No, I meant non-OD. I've seen 5D>BS work non-OD. Just wondering if it's possible to use after a decent length combo, i.e. does non-OD 5D have enough untech time to allow ground BS to hit after it late in a combo (decent starter like 5B).

[MashThat5A]

also 6C > 6D > BS > 5B has been known to connect anywhere for some time now.

Actually, if you're too close they'll go behind you after the bs. saw it happen once or twice

[Skye]

Actually, if you're too close they'll go behind you after the bs. saw it happen once or twice

Depending of the hitstun of 6d, it might be feasible to double jump backwards a bit before the BS.

[KayEff]

1. So even mid-combo it doesn't work? What change to 6A made it not possible? AFAIK 6A only launches higher now, which should offset the increased fall speeds in CP.

that IS the reason why TK GH won't work. the reason 6A > TK GH worked in extend was that TK GH hit on its very last active frame, which just barely allowed enough time for 5B to connect afterwards. in order for that to have worked, the opponent need to have a low enough hitbox (hence why it's character specific). since 6A launches the opponent higher, TK GH will always hit earlier in its active frames, thus rendering any possibility of 5B working completely impossible.

i think 5A works (unconfirmed), but at that point why not just BS or hell's fang

2. No, I meant non-OD. I've seen 5D>BS work non-OD. Just wondering if it's possible to use after a decent length combo, i.e. does non-OD 5D have enough untech time to allow ground BS to hit after it late in a combo (decent starter like 5B).

no. you're seriously misjudging how long BS's duration is.

Actually, if you're too close they'll go behind you after the bs. saw it happen once or twice

yes, but it'll still work at certain distances, which was the point behind my answer

Depending of the hitstun of 6d, it might be feasible to double jump backwards a bit before the BS.

might even be possible for a backwards airdash to work

EDIT: whoops, read that as 6C. if it's a backwards jump from 6D, you'd have to do BS pretty quickly

Edited March 15, 2013 by KayEff

[LuminAbyss]

AND NOW FOR AMATEUR HOUR WITH LUMINABYSS

So, with the recent talk about the combo-ability of ground Blood Scythe, I decided to do a little experiment to figure out an estimation of how fast it is. Because Youtube is retarded with downloading it's videos, I decided to try and do this the old fashioned way by playing the clip and using a stop watch.

So...take it with a grain of salt.

Anyway, I did ten trials of timing the move as it occurred.

[table=width: 500, class: grid]

Trial Number

Time (milliseconds)

1

0.73

2

0.67

3

0.67

4

0.76

5

0.72

6

0.77

7

0.72

8

0.71

9

0.78

10

0.73

[/table]

The results ended up averaging to 0.726 milliseconds, with 0.0375 standard deviation. There are 100 milliseconds in a second (meaning on average, it took 72.60% of a second), and the game runs at 60 frames per second. So:

72.60% x 60 frames = 43.56 frames

3.75% x 60 frames = 2.25 frames

Meaning, according to the trials, Blood Scythe is 43.56 frames, plus or minus 2.25 frames. Of course, the videos aren't the best possible quality we can have, and not to mention timing this stuff manually is difficult and wonky, but using this number as an estimation, we can safely assume Blood Scythe is between 40 and 45 frames.

This would explain why it'll combo after BK 5D (second hit has 50 frames of untech), but not after normal 5D (38 frames of untech). Assuming all of the frame data is the same as Extend.

So...yeah. It's super slow. 40ish frames even. But yeah laugh at me for spending like 10 minutes doing all this while I cry in the corner over how much of a loser I am.

RELEASE DATE WHEN.

[heavymetalmixer]

AND NOW FOR AMATEUR HOUR WITH LUMINABYSS

So, with the recent talk about the combo-ability of ground Blood Scythe, I decided to do a little experiment to figure out an estimation of how fast it is. Because Youtube is retarded with downloading it's videos, I decided to try and do this the old fashioned way by playing the clip and using a stop watch.

So...take it with a grain of salt.

Anyway, I did ten trials of timing the move as it occurred.

[table=width: 500, class: grid]

Trial Number

Time (milliseconds)

1

0.73

2

0.67

3

0.67

4

0.76

5

0.72

6

0.77

7

0.72

8

0.71

9

0.78

10

0.73

[/table]

The results ended up averaging to 0.726 milliseconds, with 0.0375 standard deviation. There are 100 milliseconds in a second (meaning on average, it took 72.60% of a second), and the game runs at 60 frames per second. So:

72.60% x 60 frames = 43.56 frames

3.75% x 60 frames = 2.25 frames

Meaning, according to the trials, Blood Scythe is 43.56 frames, plus or minus 2.25 frames. Of course, the videos aren't the best possible quality we can have, and not to mention timing this stuff manually is difficult and wonky, but using this number as an estimation, we can safely assume Blood Scythe is between 40 and 45 frames.

This would explain why it'll combo after BK 5D (second hit has 50 frames of untech), but not after normal 5D (38 frames of untech). Assuming all of the frame data is the same as Extend.

So...yeah. It's super slow. 40ish frames even. But yeah laugh at me for spending like 10 minutes doing all this while I cry in the corner over how much of a loser I am.

RELEASE DATE WHEN.

Thanks for the data.

Damn, now that's a slow move, outside of combos it IS pretyy useless.

Edited March 16, 2013 by heavymetalmixer

[Lucalibur]

I DO remember it comboing from NORMAL 5D at the very start of a combo, though.(aka no hitstun decay) No, I have no idea why the Ragna player did that, but it definitely comboed. Sadly I don't remember which video it was from. I believe Blood Scythe must have around 30-35 startup rather than 40-45, which is why it will combo without hitstun decay, but not with it.

[LuminAbyss]

It'd be helpful if you could find a video link of that. That could mean that it's probably in the high 30s, at least 38 frame start-up. Like I said, it was difficult to attempt timing the move, so how close I actually am is gonna be off.

But generally, I haven't seen it combo with normal 5D myself.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Mook releases on 29th. We'll have frame data soon enough, patience!

[LuminAbyss]

It will be a godsend for sure.

[Lucalibur]

It'd be helpful if you could find a video link of that. That could mean that it's probably in the high 30s, at least 38 frame start-up. Like I said, it was difficult to attempt timing the move, so how close I actually am is gonna be off.

But generally, I haven't seen it combo with normal 5D myself.

Sadly, I don't even know where to start looking. I only saw it being done once, and it was completely impractical. I believe the player just messed up the input or something since it was done so early in the combo there was no decay at all. I believe 35-38 frames is the startup for blood scythe, which would not be too far off your calcs.

[WolfCrimson]

There's a really good Ragna player called Bloody Marilyn in this vid who could almost beat Goro:

http://youtu.be/0oM0fHFzM7I

Thoughts?

[KayEff]

i like his neutral, but god damn he makes too many bad choices

[-Seo]

Can't believe he fucked up that OD combo, should've just done 22C > DS > 5D > CS , probably would've just killed

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Still got nothing on Kogatan, that dude is the only smart Ragna I've seen so far.

[MashThat5A]

This. A thousand times this.

[KV998]

What is Ragna's new fatal counters?

[skd]

What is Ragna's new fatal counters?

D inferno divider and ground blood scythe

Edited March 21, 2013 by KayEff

[WolfCrimson]

Found this on Ragna jBBS, seems like lifesteal value of moves:

■ドライブ能力詳細

体力吸収にかかる補正は100% > 90% > 95% > 100% 105% > 110% > … > 150% > 160% > 180% (最大180%)

ソウルイーター属性を持つ技が連続ヒットする度に補正がかかる(DIDとかODDSとか)

【通常版】

回復量50…DID1ヒット

回復量100…通常技、GH追加、踵落とし

回復量200…HF追加、CS

回復量300…BS

回復量500…闇食い

【OD版】

回復量75…DID1ヒット

回復量125…通常技

回復量150…GH追加、踵落とし

回復量300…HF追加

回復量450…BS

回復量500…CS (300+50×4)

回復量1000…闇食い

■ゲージ増加

ゲージ増加率=攻撃力*0.0072 / 相手側は攻撃力*0.004

2hit目以降、ゲージ増加率に乗算補正*70%の補正がかかる

今作もヘルズ追加(OD版含む)にはゲージ増加量2倍ボーナスがあるが

乗算補正とゲージ補正の影響を受けるのであまり増えない

12 ：名無しさん：2013/03/16(土) 20:32:32 ID:S.60XMVc0

>>11にDSの回復抜けてたので修正

【通常版】

回復量50…DID1ヒット

回復量100…通常技、GH追加、踵落とし、DS

回復量200…HF追加、CS

回復量300…BS

回復量500…闇食い

【OD版】

回復量50…CS3～6ヒット目

回復量75…DID1ヒット

回復量100…DS1ヒット

回復量125…通常技

回復量200…CS2ヒット目

回復量150…GH追加、踵落とし

回復量300…HF追加

回復量450…BS

回復量1000…闇食い

Also, a combo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5QF8Fq5uA8