[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

It was always like this, it's just that our options suck now so we're scrapping the piggy bottom.

I actually did that today and got blown up for it.

#Thestruggle.

[LionHeartx]

I should probably start hitconfirming gauntlet hades >.>

[floatwater]

It was always like this, it's just that our options suck now so we're scrapping the piggy bottom.

Our options don't suck it's just playing correctly, this isn't EX where you make a mistake and you can make it up in landing an overhead > ZZZZZ DAMAGE N DA BESS OKI.

Seriously :/.

The P2 buff is honestly whatever. 60 to 67 is like moving from a piece of shit to a piece of shit with icing on top.

^ xN

[LuminAbyss]

Normal Keri Age does enough damage to make up for it in most cases. You can still hit 4k with it in the middle of the combo. Can't count throwing it in near the end due to hitsun decay.

Our overhead reward just sucks but hey at least they still hit people.

[Master Of Chaos]

WE HAVE CONQUERED THE 9K BARRIER AT LAST! REJOICE!

NEXT WE WILL OVERCOME HAKUMEN AND TAKE BACK OUR TOP TIER SPOT!

[Callisto]

Kind of random, but I was grinding away at TKBS practice last night; I have the TKBS itself down pretty well now, but the microdash 5B is killing me. However I was looking at the display input in training mode, and noticed that I always, always, always get the input 6>8>6 after a TKBS rather than 6 > 6 which may be delaying my dash a tiny bit. I tried dashing constantly in various scenarios, being as loose and mashy as possible, doing OD 5D/2D dash cancels, 2D RC dash cancels, etc; and I have yet to find any other scenario other than after TKBS where the input comes in at 686. Has anyone else seen something like this happen? I'm trying to determine what is being goofy here between my stick, my hands, or the game.

[KayEff]

how the fuck does any of this relate to gameplay

seriously, i was wondering how there were suddenly 14 new posts in the ragna forums, but i guess i should've at least expected some retarded conversation

as to actually answer callisto's question, i think it may be a controller problem rather than an input problem. maybe you should consider getting your controller/stick checked.

if you don't want to do that, then maybe just start mashing 6 after j.BS

Edited December 12, 2013 by KayEff

[Callisto]

It turns out it's a having dumb hands problem lol, a ground wire came loose on the stick I normally use for BB on Friday so I had to use my main stick instead(I use a square gate for BB instead of the octo I use for everything else, stupid Dead Spike/DID) and I got the same thing on my Eightarc as I was getting on the PS360+. It's really weird, I think I'm just getting some bounce-back from the spring somehow popping it to up after between the two 6 inputs. Either way I kinda followed your advice and just mashed the ever-loving shit out of 6 upon landing and started having some better luck with the link, lol.

[Cheefoo]

Is TK bloodscythe crossup any good?

It's shown here...

http://youtu.be/16ZYpteDn6s?t=1m3s

...but I'm sure there are more reasonable (but less hype) options than backwards airdash jC>jD>OD, right?

Also, how difficult are TK BS combos compared to Extend's 5B>6A>TK GH>5B combos?

[Kashou]

Is TK bloodscythe crossup any good?

It's shown here...

http://youtu.be/16ZYpteDn6s?t=1m3s

...but I'm sure there are more reasonable (but less hype) options than backwards airdash jC>jD>OD, right?

Also, how difficult are TK BS combos compared to Extend's 5B>6A>TK GH>5B combos?

It's a great crossup but very risky since you have to know your spacing perfectly. Also BS does not crossup unless you do it raw in almost every situation. 5B-> BS is a crossup I think,, at least point blank, but 5B 5C BS is not, even if you are pretty much 100% on the opposite side. 6D BS isn't a crossup either. It autoblocks the right way just by holding the same direction. You can get about the same damage as from hades RCs so if you're skilled enough to hit them without whiffing it's good.

If you whiff you're dead. If you hit you only get combo with RC. Only the ground version is fatal.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Kashou

[TheBossGiga]

Does anyone else feel that rag didn't get too nerfed in this game. He still feels moderately strong imo

[Lucalibur]

I think he got nerfed quite heavily, but so did a good portion of the cast(again), thus he doesn't really look that bad in comparison to everyone else. Despite that, I find CP Ragna really fucking boring. I don't use him seriously anymore by this point, I just mash DP, run up DP, anti-anti-air DP, train them to expect a DP then run up grab.

[BlackYakuzu94]

He's still a pretty solid character, but the nerfs and new combo system really hurt him a lot.

I still like playing as him, but damn does he need better shit.

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[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I wouldn't say he needs better stuff, I just think he needs more interesting stuff. He is pretty boring after a while.

I really want like, all of my 6A chains from CS1 back. And the 6B chains too. Make 6A JCable on block again. If you have to, take away 6A's ability to float on standing hit, I would be happy to give that up for getting all that other stuff back. It would just make him so much more fun on offense, IMO.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, taking away every C option off of 6B just....bleh.

[-Kid]

I agree that they should give back Ragna's C moves after 6B. On the other hand, some believe that it's not needed and it'll make his mixup unnecessarily stronger.

Personally I don't like having to gattling 6B > 5D, as it kills my pressure too much once 6B is blocked.

[Lucalibur]

I wouldn't say he needs better stuff, I just think he needs more interesting stuff. He is pretty boring after a while.

I really want like, all of my 6A chains from CS1 back. And the 6B chains too. Make 6A JCable on block again. If you have to, take away 6A's ability to float on standing hit, I would be happy to give that up for getting all that other stuff back. It would just make him so much more fun on offense, IMO.

Also 5D(1)>Dead Spike back. Pls.

[Tong]

I agree that they should give back Ragna's C moves after 6B. On the other hand, some believe that it's not needed and it'll make his mixup unnecessarily stronger.

Personally I don't like having to gattling 6B > 5D, as it kills my pressure too much once 6B is blocked.

Yea I guess they wanted to make 6B a less attractive mixup choice.

Not only the damage has been lowered but also the options force you to pretty much give up all momentum if ever blocked, and maintaining it carries many risks without meter.

[Cheefoo]

Yea I guess they wanted to make 6B a less attractive mixup choice.

Not only the damage has been lowered but also the options force you to pretty much give up all momentum if ever blocked, and maintaining it carries many risks without meter.

But why? Ragna doesn't really have mixup anymore. GH is a shitty starter now, getting like 3k damage at most, and is still punishable on block. 6B gets less than 2k midscreen and fucks your pressure if it's blocked. BS and DS are pretty good for getting Ragna in close for throw mixup, but they're both slow to startup, and BS is especially punishable if your opponent knows how to react to it.

GH and 6B are easily blockable with a bit of practice, and now they're less rewarding and less safe. I know Ragna's offense is supposed to be bad, to make up for the fact he has the best DP and great normals, but I'm at the point where I don't even bother using high-lows anymore, instead I just try for throws and frametraps.

I've mostly been neglecting crush triggers though. Are those a legit form of "mixup" that I should learn to use more or should I save my meter for RC's?

[Lucalibur]

Depends on the character. Sadly Ragna's kind of ass, while, say, Litchi's godlike. You're really stuck with barebone mixups and the random D ID crossup when using Ragna.

[D.R.F.]

I do wish he had better damage off of 6B. That or make it a little faster idk. Mixing up blows with ragna though.

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[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I think the easiest solution would probably be to give back 2C and 3C after 6B, but not 5C. Without the 5C-6C gatling, getting high damage off of 6B midscreen is not really there, but you have some flexible string options with 2C and 3C, and you would have situational high damage off of the 3C -> 22C route. I'm not really looking for higher damage anyway, Ragna wouldn't need it if his pressure options were more flexible. I'm more interested in what would make him more fun to play. I don't agree with the concept of the character having bad offense just because his neutral is good and he has a good reversal. That might be how the designers would like us to play the game, but that's not how the game is actually played at a high level, and the strong characters don't have these problems.

[Tong]

Well he needs 2C before 5C> 6C anyways to space 6D> j.214D properly midscreen, so said high midscreen damage would still be there. But I agree that 6B> 2C would make his mixup better considering 2C is a great move for enforcing pressure.

And if I really want to keep momentum after my 6B gets blocked, I just use 6D> j.D because people often expect a 2D or 5D into GH/DS/BS.

[-Kid]

6B gets less than 2k midscreen

Ragna can get 2.8k off 6B midscreen.

And if I really want to keep momentum after my 6B gets blocked, I just use 6D> j.D because people often expect a 2D or 5D into GH/DS/BS.

The problem with that is that you don't know if 6B is actually going to hit your opponent. You are essentially giving up a free combo if you auto-pilot into 6D, which is why it's better to auto-pilot into 5D. As I've said, the problem with that is that if in the case that 6B was blocked, your pressure essentially becomes dead after 5D. Ragna has no lows after 5D which means your opponent can just block high by default and react to any reset pressure attempt such as BS or DS. If anyone is foolish enough to use GH after 5D, well..

At least when he had his C gattlings from 6B, there was time to see that the 6B has actually hit by auto-piloting into 5C/2C then into 6C. If it didn't hit, you can see that by the next move and act accordingly. All in all, there are hitconfirm issues with 6B in CP.

On another note, I think both of Ragna's overheads suck. I'd never use GH without meter, unless I know someone is not going to block it or punish me after.

[Arvoyea]

Anyone got information on the Ragna/old man Wolf matchup? I get blasted so fast and everything seems too good.

I think if I can get good spacing I could get great anti-air like a CH 6A combo into knockdown and try to keep them from moving/jumping. Any tips?

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Edited February 2, 2014 by Arvoyea