[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Fistmaster049]

Anyone got information on the Ragna/old man Wolf matchup? I get blasted so fast and everything seems too good.

I think if I can get good spacing I could get great anti-air like a CH 6A combo into knockdown and try to keep them from moving/jumping. Any tips?

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Please ask your matchup related questions in the section for it, (Valk's I'll link here) http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?18151-CP-Ragna-vs-Valkenhayn

Though to be fair this particular matchup thread doesn't have much yet, (hint hint other Ragna players: Write up pls)

Now then, on the subject of potential Ragna changes, I'd be all for giving 6B it's C gatlings back, it would make it seem a LOT more appealing as a mixup tool especially with Ragna's mixup generally just being awful at least you could use 2C to make it safer, maybe making it come out a little bit faster too

BS hitting actually hitting high (like totally looks like it should) might help too, Cross up air bs would seem at least a little useful despite not being able to follow it up meterless

.....

Or you could just give him a command grab, Arc pls

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

6B-2C-5C-6C = wouldn't this create too much push out for both hits of 6C to connect, Tong? I doubt you would still get high damage if 6B didn't go into 5C directly. Maybe off of 5B, but I don't think 5B pushes away as far on hit, that and you're usually not point blank when you hit someone with 6B.

In any case, it's all theory fighter right now. As far as both of Ragna's overheads being bad, honestly, most of the overheads in the game are not that great. Valkenhayn is pretty much the only character in the game who has a really crazy high/low game outside of oki situations, and that's more because of his unique design. Making 6B a little faster probably wouldn't make much of a difference in Ragna's mixup game, and really, even right now, people still get hit by 6B, even if it's not that often. I would prefer more flexible Revolver options, personally.

[Tong]

6B-2C-5C-6C = wouldn't this create too much push out for both hits of 6C to connect, Tong? I doubt you would still get high damage if 6B didn't go into 5C directly. Maybe off of 5B, but I don't think 5B pushes away as far on hit, that and you're usually not point blank when you hit someone with 6B.

It wouldn't at reasonably close ranges, pushback isnt so bad as it was in CS2. And here's one funny thing, 6B (RC)> 2C> 5C> 6C route deals more damage than 6B> 2D (RC)! Had he had that meterless 6B> 2C route he would have decent damage off of a safe overhead, and ASW just couldn't let that happen and nerfed his best options so they had more risk involved and less damage.

[What!?]

Hey there, long time lurker on this site. Been playing Ragna since CT days and I love how much progress they made with this character, when they finally PACMAnized Dead Spike, my day was made. But anyways like Titanium Beast said I'd rather have him be more interesting, than just simply improving his damage. Ragna and Jin are the closest to strait up fundamentals characters that you can get in this game to me anyway, and he's the reason I keep playing this series.

Ragna seems to be pretty close to balanced at the moment, but I'd personally like to see 2C's advantage go up to +2, a little faster startup and less pushback on 5c, 5d, and another overhaul on his 6D. I personally don't mind the 6D floating the opponent, but I think it would be interesting if you could use 6D as a frame trap for once, perhaps by decreasing its startup. Of course with the change you could shave a couple frames of blockstun off of the followup to compensate.

For Blood Sycthe, I'm not really sure, perhaps faster startup, and having it hit high, I kind of like the arc it covers, its like an anti air bait, but its too slow for general use. Last thing I'd want is a j.6d with a sycthe animation that hits directly in front of him, kind of like Jins current j.C but less range, this way he have a way to control a piece of space, he currently can't and 5D, 2D gatling lol.

Other than that I'm somewhat ok with current Ragna, I actually like how you have to get your opponent closer to the corner to get big damage, rather than doing the same thing all the time, makes feel satisfying when I pull off a 623d combo close to the corner off of overhead or 5b.

Edited February 3, 2014 by What!?

[D.R.F.]

We really do need to write more about these topics in the character discussion threads, I wanna learn more about the litchi thread and etc. Without going back to extend

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[Cheefoo]

Hey there, long time lurker on this site. Been playing Ragna since CT days and I love how much progress they made with this character, when they finally PACMAnized Dead Spike, my day was made. But anyways like Titanium Beast said I'd rather have him be more interesting, than just simply improving his damage. Ragna and Jin are the closest to strait up fundamentals characters that you can get in this game to me anyway, and he's the reason I keep playing this series.

Ragna seems to be pretty close to balanced at the moment, but I'd personally like to see 2C's advantage go up to +2, a little faster startup and less pushback on 5c, 5d, and another overhaul on his 6D. I personally don't mind the 6D floating the opponent, but I think it would be interesting if you could use 6D as a frame trap for once, perhaps by decreasing its startup. Of course with the change you could shave a couple frames of blockstun off of the followup to compensate.

For Blood Sycthe, I'm not really sure, perhaps faster startup, and having it hit high, I kind of like the arc it covers, its like an anti air bait, but its too slow for general use. Last thing I'd want is a j.6d with a sycthe animation that hits directly in front of him, kind of like Jins current j.C but less range, this way he have a way to control a piece of space, he currently can't and 5D, 2D gatling lol.

Other than that I'm somewhat ok with current Ragna, I actually like how you have to get your opponent closer to the corner to get big damage, rather than doing the same thing all the time, makes feel satisfying when I pull off a 623d combo close to the corner off of overhead or 5b.

5D>2D gatling would be nice, but 2D on normal hit isn't very rewarding, unless you have meter and can hit confirm it (which is really hard in CP).

I'd love to see a low hitting special added to Ragna's arsenal. Something like 22D for the input, animation similar to 2D's but with like 22f startup. Has two hits, first is a normal low hitting foot property move, the second is some kind of explosion (like carnage scissors) that comes out a few frames later with a lot of blockstun and groundbounces like 2D CH. Normally like +1 on block, but with large pushback. If the first hit doesn't connect, but they block the second hit, you wouldn't get pushed back (projectile property) and you'd have a much more advantageous SD. Maybe even dash-cancelable so it could function similarly to how deadspike does now as well.

Ragna really needs something to catch people holding up-back, as well as a way to continue his offense off his max range pokes. A blocked 5C at max range gets him practically nothing, unless you want to blow meter for a desperate HF>RC. Or I dunno, just make 5C jump cancelable on block?

[-Kid]

We really do need to write more about these topics in the character discussion threads, I wanna learn more about the litchi thread and etc. Without going back to extend

Alternatively, you can look for info in the litchi section regarding this match up and learn it from her perspective

5D>2D gatling would be nice

I don't think that's ever going to be made possible. Doesn't make sense for Ragna to be able to drive cancel a drive.

Ragna really needs a way to continue his offense off his max range pokes.

I personally think that the way he plays right now with his max range normals is fine. Ragna shouldn't be able to continue offense off max range pokes, maybe jump cancel on 5C, yeah. 5B and 5C are mainly used for spacing tools, not offense starters.

[floatwater]

Please ask your matchup related questions in the section for it, (Valk's I'll link here) http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?18151-CP-Ragna-vs-Valkenhayn

Though to be fair this particular matchup thread doesn't have much yet, (hint hint other Ragna players: Write up pls)

I'll post it SOON. be patient. This also goes for Fenrir

[D.R.F.]

I'll post it SOON. be patient. This also goes for Fenrir

Thank you crossfire, sorry make possibly rushing.

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[What!?]

I don't think that's ever going to be made possible. Doesn't make sense for Ragna to be able to drive cancel a drive.

Oh yea I total forgot about the drive mechanic, since all his drives a attacks, meh he gets to special cancel them so why not get a gatling, I don't think they'd ever do that anyways. But yeah a viable low option after 5D would be nice, 5D right now feels like filler / psychic gatling to go to if you think your going to hit your opponent out of a jump with 5B to me.

Oh and a command grab that puts the opponent in a stagger state like the old not over yet, would be so sick; and yea I agree with Kid, 5B, 5C maxrange - hells fang ender is pretty good considering the range he covers. Plus you have so much advantage after the ender it makes up for the lack of damage without meter.

Edited February 4, 2014 by What!?

[D.R.F.]

Honestly I'd be okay with ragna if his 6B had better gatling options. The shit damage he gets from his overheads is frustrating at times, especially midscreen when you get a 6B only to do 5D-hells fang for like 2.3k

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[Tong]

He can go for 6B> 6A> Midscreen BnB for decent damage and practically fullscreen carry from most places midscreen.

[D.R.F.]

Yea but most of the time 6A whiffs due to spacing. So I typically don't use it

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[Tong]

Just make sure you're close enough before using the 6A route. I personally wouldn't say no to damage and fullscreen carry like that.

It's worth practicing.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Tong

[D.R.F.]

Yea I get what your saying, but I have a lot of bad instances where I'd go for the 6a and the hitbox just BARELY misses. I just try not to even risk it anymore

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[-Kid]

With more practice, you'll eventually know the range at which 6A will whiff.

[D.R.F.]

Ill get on that then

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[Final Ultima]

BlazBlue Chronophantasma Update Changes

• Ragna
  

D Inferno Divider - Fall speed increased, recovery time decreased.

Gauntlet Hades - No longer soars over crouching opponents.

(OD) Dead Spike - Projectile no longer travels off-screen.

Belial Edge - Last hit now floats lower, untechable time decreased. Last hit now Distortion Drive Cancellable on hit or block.

Source: http://blazblue.jp/cp/update110.html

Edited February 13, 2014 by Final Ultima

[Callisto]

Ahhh thanks, I understood the Google translate of everything but the Belial Edge one. I wonder if you can still hit 665C/5D where you currently can. The DID change should make Fatal combos a little easier it seems.

Character-specific changes aside, the overall general input changes are going to be really nice for DID/CS.

[WolfCrimson]

D ID buffed... That's good

[Beat_By-X]

GH dont miss now certain opponent when he is close ???

[Callisto]

I'm wondering if whatever hitbox change they're making for that will also take away the instances in which GH could cross up.

[Fistmaster049]

They gave us only one nerf.....but it had to be THAT D:

I miss BE already I certainly hope that despite the untechable nerf it can still be followed up with something fast...otherwise RIP

Still for the most part my thoughts on the changes in general were "is that it?"

[-Kid]

"is that it?"

My reaction exactly. In all honesty, I'm really not happy with Ragna's changes. I consider both the DS change and the gauntlet hades change more of a "This has been fixed" move than a buff. Although the D ID buff will be useful for fatal combos and lead to more combo routes, I felt that a buff for Ragna could have been better spent somewhere else. The D ID change wasn't a necessity IMHO

[KayEff]

in most cases, the official website won't list all the changes that were made to a character. they only list a few of the total changes, maybe due to convention.

here's hoping that i'm right