[UNIEL] Linne

[Rhiya]

http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#8/0/0

 

You'll have to figure out which is which yourself, but...

[bellreisa]

quick note:

 

old assault combo:

 

6d j.c 2b 2c 5c j.b j.6b j.c dj.2b 2c 6c 6c 214b~b~2a (whiff) = 2295/2517

 

new assault combo:

 

6d j.c 2b 5c 214b~a j.b j.6b j.c dj.2b 2c 6c 6c 214b~b~2a (whiff) = 2483/2725

 6d j.c 5b 214b~a 2369b  j.b j.6b j.c dj.2b 2c 6c 6c 214b~b~2a (whiff) = 2574/2824

 

landing every 6d j.c counts, old combo should be thrown out in favor of this one

[xlolxlolx]

you get about 100 more dmg if you really want to milk it with j.c>5b>214b~a>tk fireball instead

[bellreisa]

thanks! the 2c link off the one i listed is sort of tight and i prefer stability generally, but a 200 dmg increase is too significant to ignore in this game. will test in matches later

[xlolxlolx]

for those times where im uncertain whether they blocked the j.c or not i just autopilot 5b>5c>214b~a and 6b into same combo you posted after the launch since they're most likely going to switch to blocking low if they were to block the assault j.c in the first place

[Rhiya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDkn984ENSo&t=38m3s

?

CH, no vorpal, 2.7k with hard down

[xlolxlolx]

ch on assault removes the forced proration and extra hitstun decay modifier, these combos should do close to 3k normally

[Red Reaper]

i'll leave this bit here, you guys can play with it

 

gordeau, merkava, and waldstein give linne problems on their wakeup due to having some pretty strong options, but you can use linne FF to maintain momentum or punish

 

vs merkava: the standard answer to wakeup ex noodlearms is shield last hit or green shield 2nd to last to autoshield last, then punish w/5a or 2a. this is fine, but a bit difficult to time, also a starters suck. if you're up to half a chara width away linne can b+c post-superflash and the super will pass through her, allowing a full punish with 2b or 5b starter

 

vs gordeau: generally when gordeau is knocked down w/100%+ you have to look out for ex assimilation vs meaties or ex grim reaper vs jumps/non-meaties. watch for the superflash animation: ex grim has the scythe pulled out. up to a max range of half a chara width, linne b+c will dodge most of ex grim. one of the hits will hit her from behind for about 500 dmg, however gordeau will be in recovery and allow for a full 2b/5b punish. vs ex assimi, you can counter this for free using b+c followup for 1.9k -> cs if you got it. be sure to not try and counter ex grim, you'll get bodied lol. this one is definitely not as free since you need to react to superflash animation

 

vs wald: b+c post-superflash will counter 623c (arms), 624c (suplex), [4]6c (godpress), and 360c (720)

 

you should be able to set up situations where you force opponent respect on wakeup. afaik there are no 0 frame supers? so you can b+c post superflash and counter wakeup DPs, or phase through invincible supers and punish as if they had whiffed on recovery

 

lmk what you guys find!!

 

things i will test later: orie ex dp, veil off

 

EDIT:

 

vs carmine: you can b+c ex grab and punish w/5b on recovery or do followup. you can b+c ex blood fling and IW and punish with 2b

 

to summarize: having the b+c option forces opponent to block on wake because you can beat wakeup ex mash options mostly free. this in turn makes linne offense that much stronger. i was wondering why jp didn't wakeup mash her as often, pretty sure this is the reason. i'm also pretty sure their metagame has already evolved past needing to use the counter and that the threat of it is enough to keep them from pushing buttons

 

this is probably a pretty big shift in how i think about matchups, will play sessions and report back later maybe

Very useful.. Thanx.

Quoted for Posterity.

[bellreisa]

another quick note

 

been testing out microdash 5a after 6c for meaty/fake meaty pressure, and i have some concepts for using that + slightly spaced 2c to stop backdashes + stay in a dp-safe range that allows you to react to all wakeup supers w/b+c or 623b, as well as remain outside 2a/throw mash range while staying in kara throw range. remember that you can 623b/623c vs ex noodle and ex grim, and 6d carmine ex grab and ex assimi. having a little extra space makes it riskier for them to do anything since they're not right next to you

[Rhiya]

ch on assault removes the forced proration and extra hitstun decay modifier, these combos should do close to 3k normally

 

kk, was actually unsure of ch properties on assault

 

EDIT: I'm assuming this means we need to CH confirm assault combos if possible?

[bellreisa]

you should always confirm CH combos yes, regardless of assault or not. they don't do too much for linne outside of corner in terms of routes but getting the extra dmg off CH assault, grd break or corner CH will edge you out in close matches

[bellreisa]

2886/3116 - 5b 5c 236b~66 6b 624a 5b j.b j.6b j.c dj.2b 2c 6c 6c 214b~b

2926/3211 - 2b 5c 236b~66 6b 624a 5b j.b j.6b j.c dj.2b 2c 6c 6c 214b~b

 

these are really finicky based on spacing and height. they're not as stable as the tk kuuga variant. also using 5b 2b or 2b 5b will deal less?

 

tk kuuga variant is:

 

2863/3142 - 5b 5c 236b~66 5b 2369b [ comboEnder ]

2862/3143 - 2b 5c 236b~66 5b 2369b [ comboEnder ]

 

some of these "optimizations" probably aren't worth it. i did notice j.236c combos deal more with a 2c instead of 5b 5c before the 214b (why)

[xlolxlolx]

repeating moves applies a small amount forced proration 

 

it depends on during which tick of ex fireball you pick it up on 5th hit standing one will do more

 

also there's a couple frames where you can otg off air hit b flip where you can do otg 6b tk fireball/air combo blah blah

[LitchiFayeBling]

whats her best resourceless punish? like after dp whiff or block

[xlolxlolx]

ch 214b~a>5c>63214a>5b>tk j.236b>air combo>ender

or if youre close enough then you can do ch 214a>5a>214b~a>6b>same thing

[bellreisa]

hi, some recent things i added to my gameplan

 

i was playing against a vatista and continued having problems getting flashkicked out of pressure as well as general problems opening this player up in the corner, so i sat down and pieced together a few elements that seemed really obvious in retrospect

1. vat will FK out of non-seamless pressure when she has a read
2. in order to FK, vat needs a downcharge
3. if i make the vat player stand up, they lose their downcharge, and i get a small amount of time to attack without having it be an issue

to make a player stand up and drop their charge, you obviously need an overhead. linne has only a few:

1. jump ins/assault attacks
2. 624b
3. 5c[c]

the first one is too slow and telegraphed. second is sort of okay once in a while especially if you have vorpal to make it safe with CS on block. third one is good, but is mashable and really obvious if they know the animation

 

the key then, is to mask the animation a bit by making the times you're doing it a bit ambiguous. that's when the top linne's 5ac strings suddenly made sense

 

a lot of the top jp linnes will end strings with 5c, with a few options:

1. b kuuga (catches flinch)
2. 214b (moves back in)
3. 5a rebeat (resets pressure safely once respect has been established)
4. nothing

the last one sort of confused me until i noticed that opponents will downback linne until they see the overhead. once 5c delayed kuuga is used to stop opponents from flinching, they will respect enough to sit still for 5c nothing. when enough 5c nothings are used, the timing for the 5c[c] becomes more subtle in that the opponent has been gradually conditioned to expect nothing, allowing it to connect more often

 

timing is important; staggering and delaying your normals so that the tempo isn't rapid-fire is critical. since there is a big delay before 5[c] comes out, introducing a similar delay between the normals in the rest of your pressure will make the 5[c] startup less obvious. as a point of reference, this is very similar to f-moon style pressure from MBAA

 

of course, 5[c] is mashable with 2a, and an opponent can CS to react if they feel it's coming. make sure to stay about 0.5 width away at 5[c] max range and establish 5c nothing as an option first before going for it, and always watch opponent meter and keep their patterns in mind. if they are fond of reversal EXes, skew your pressure more towards 5c nothing and bait them out, then punish accordingly

 

this all also depends on how solid the opponent's blocking is. if you're getting mileage from running basic run -> 6d pressure then this isn't going to be strictly needed. but against harder opponents who block more, this will be another way to open them up

 

vs vatista in particular, since she has a bad assault OS, removing the threat of FK for one exchange can make the difference between gaining momentum and taking the round or getting FK'd and being zoned out till you lose

[bellreisa]

assault OS baits

 

when you are pressuring and move in for a tick/kara throw or a 6d, assault OS is an issue. bait by stepping back (or stepping back further) and using 2b/2c/236b to punish the whiff 3b/3c or flat out beat it before trying 6d again. here's some results i noticed:

 

merkava (3acd): tumble goes over 2b/2c and kuuga lol fuck this character. you probably have to hard bait it with preemptive j.236c, 6c or j.c all of which are risky and trade against you if you're not early

 

gordeau (2acd): step back -> 2b/2c, step back kuuga, step back tk kuuga. kuuga preferred since it should stuff 3c which will probably beat 2c. beware, 2c first hit is low!

 

eltnum (3acd): step back more -> kuuga. eltnum 3c moves her forward so 2c will probably get stuffed in a lot of cases

 

hyde (3acd): step back more and kuuga/2c. treat similar to eltnum since it moves forward

 

byakuya (3acd): 3c seems kind of huge and low profile? it doesn't move forward but was hitting me more often than other 3c's. would step back further and 2c/kuuga to be safe

 

linne (2abd): linne has a special case: her OS doesn't actually antiair but moves her forward quite a bit, messing up assault trajectory if you're not careful. you can delay a 6d and use j.c to punish as it will hit crossup. if you're not paying attention she'll slide under you and punish your landing. you can also hard bait with divekick or staggered blockstrings

 

carmine (3abd): step back 2b/2c should beat this free since carmine's kick only hits high and linne's very low profile on both those moves

 

orie (3abd): step back 2b/2c and step back kuuga. you can probably even trade in your favor if you're closer with kuuga

 

nanase (3acd): step back 2b/2c and kuuga. 3c comes out fast but doesn't move forward

 

hilda (3abd): step back 2b/2c and kuuga. it's decently fast but doesn't have much horizontal range

 

akatsuki, waldstein, vatista: do not have usable assault OS afaik

 

untested:

 

yuzuriha (5c~5acd): from @dat_kyhz. will test range on the 5c later

 

seth (3acd/3abd): from @fwtravisbain. two OSes, what is this nonsense. testing later

 

chaos (abcd under 100 meter): from @LordSpectreX. note: chaos will do roll (B+C) instead of veil off (A+B+C), thus the meter requirement. this is sort of ghetto lol... but it's legit. will test if roll can be easily OS baited later

[drugtown]

do the j.B/j.6B combos in linne.txt work air-to-air or only air-to-ground

 

i figure if i meet someone air-to-air with a jumping normal i can just do her normal combo ender but i'm curious

[bellreisa]

a2a, you can open up with either a single jump combo (j.abc, j.b6bc) or double jump combo (jump cancel c; haven't fully verified what the best is here), then land and either 5a 6c or 5b 6c into 624a based on height into ender. i haven't written those in since they're a little free-form but if you get the basic combo theory it should click pretty quickly

[xlolxlolx]

easiest and probably the highest dmg route off an air confirm is just to go into j2b>2c>214b~a>air combo>ender

[bellreisa]

knockdown momentum tier list

 

this list sorts characters into groups of how aggressive you can be on knockdown, and my personal preference of ender for optimal setplay. it's up to you what you want to do of course, but this works best for me

 

note: all lists exclude wakeup shield, wakeup mash, veil off, IW and IWEXS, which should be accounted for universally

 

green class: these characters have poor wakeup options period. use 6c knockdown midscreen/all the time and bully them with dash 5a or 2c meaty on wakeup to consistently maintain momentum whenever you convert a hit, or use airtech reset options if they like airteching

 

hilda, yuzuriha, chaos, byakuya

 

orange class: these characters have metered reversal options, but nothing too special outside of that. run 6c knockdown until 100% meter, then adjust gameplan to space out/bait metered reversals on wakeup

 

gordeau, merkava, waldstein, carmine, orie, seth

 

red class: these characters always have a wakeup reversal. space carefully at first to bait them, then attack more aggressively or passively based on how much opponent is respecting you

 

linne, akatsuki, vatista, eltnum, nanase, hyde

[ZDH513]

Ok i know i saw this somewhere in a Japan match video where someone used Linne DP then CS when the opp. block it and did an air move as an overhead into a block string but everytime I do it, it just doesn't come out right after I hit the opp. Is it because online lag or what? help.

[drugtown]

Ok i know i saw this somewhere in a Japan match video where someone used Linne DP then CS when the opp. block it and did an air move as an overhead into a block string but everytime I do it, it just doesn't come out right after I hit the opp. Is it because online lag or what? help.

 

623A > CS > j.BA? probably just not doing it fast enough

[drugtown]

speaking of that (chain shift 623A into air normals into continued blockstring) it seems pretty gapless? i set hyde dummy to hold back to block the 623A and then mash B craver and i didn't get dp'd out of it

[Pnoth]

I always catch people with this mix-up in the corner. Do regular combo, finish with 6CC then do 63214B, It'll hit them high assuming they tech. You can do 2C or grab to mix it up. I dont really know if you are at disadvantage after the 63214B if they dont tech, but i think you can do it on reaction.