[UNIEL] Linne

[xlolxlolx]

6cc gives more time to setup oki, not too useful outside of corner

[Coma]

It's the most useful outside the corner.  Instead of going for the air tech chase where there are 3 techs to bait, you can go for [6]CC and only have to react to two techs(neutral and back and that doesn't include no tech).  Linne's fast enough where she can catch up to the back tech and still get a meaty.  And if you want to roll through them for better positioning and still get a meaty, you can do that.  It's just an easier situation to control and a lot safer but the air tech-chase stuff is more damage and better reward off oki but is hard to predict and can potentially backfire on you.  Your choice of what to do.

[tdsholo]

That 6CC ender thing is very cool but why you don't want them to airtech?

 

For example using 6CC>63214A ender let's you the perfect time to set up a sideswap mixup just running behind the enemy when he's landing

 

Also, do you guys know how to cancel kuuga dash cancel into roll? May seem dumb, but I tryed and the dash still doing as always, it don't let me to cancel it into roll. I saw japanese players cancelling kuuga almost instantly into roll. How is that done?

[drugtown]

That 6CC ender thing is very cool but why you don't want them to airtech?

 

For example using 6CC>63214A ender let's you the perfect time to set up a sideswap mixup just running behind the enemy when he's landing

 

Also, do you guys know how to cancel kuuga dash cancel into roll? May seem dumb, but I tryed and the dash still doing as always, it don't let me to cancel it into roll. I saw japanese players cancelling kuuga almost instantly into roll. How is that done?

 

hold 6 after kuuga then double tap A+B

[Rhiya]

236B6 works for a quick dash after ground kuuga, so 236b6~A+B should make you roll pretty quickly also, if you don't like the above method

 

obviously also works with a kuuga

[Coma]

That 6CC ender thing is very cool but why you don't want them to airtech?

 

For example using 6CC>63214A ender let's you the perfect time to set up a sideswap mixup just running behind the enemy when he's landing

 

 

The reason is because it's not something you can control easily.  Not only can the opponent airtech neutral, back, or forward but they can do it late or not at all.  Both options make it so your mixup doesn't work.

[CT_Warrior]

So I was trying to find out how the JP Linnes were zipping around, weaving in and out and destroying everybody and I found a couple of things.

Dash blocking is extremely good on Linne. You can move a quarter of the screen while blocking almost the whole time by inputting dash then immediately blocking, but the problem is that it takes a while for the dash to stop and reinput another dash. Too much time wasted and position lost on a character who thrives on good positioning.

A few ways to get around it:
66[4] (dashblock) 6D j236b/ jC/jB/j6B/j6/jA
66[4] 23[6]B~AB6 (my preferred way of inputting the command dash without rolling)
66[4] IAD jBjC / jAjC / jCjA / j6BjB
66[4] 9 (dash jump makes you fly across the screen!)
66[4] TK236A/B

Using 6c in neutral is imo incredibly unfair and dirty. It has 30 frames of startup+recovery versus the 36/37 frames of 5C/2C respectively. Not to mention (which I'll mention several times) that you can whiff cancel the 6C into another 6C, which you can troll Orie's with occasionally. The antiair potential of 6C cannot be understated. 5C is pretty good and has the most horizontal range, but it only has two active frames compared to the six of 6C and 2C.

The problem is that you're limited by the game's mechanics in when you can use it. Dash 6C turns into the command normal 66C, a dash attack. If 66C didn't exist and you could 6C out of a dash, everyone would be crying Linne top tier. You can use it while standing still, but 2C would outdo or be even with it in most of those situations since this game is ground based (except 6C covers ground assaults and can whiff cancel into another 6C :D).

The first thing I thought of when I played this game after playing Melty for so long was how to make it more air-based. Linne has just the kuugas to make them jump. After you do that (MU dependent), you can do some silly occasionally genius 6C movement options:

Dash stop 6C (most obvious option but man that dash stop is slow)
Dash 5D 6C (useful when you want to move a a char width or two)
Dash roll 6C (best from a fairly far range, can very length of initial dash like with above)
Backdash roll 6C (LoL)
Dash backdash 6C (LooL)
TK236A/B optional roll 6C
Empty assault 6C
Assault j236A/B 6C
Jump somewhere land 6C
Jump/assault j2b 6C

It's like Kohaku's 236B except this is a game where they can't airblock most things, backdash, or airjump and you can combo off 6C by doing something like 6CC624A236C or 6C(airhit)624A, aand you can cancel it twice if you miss so they can't punish it too easily. The threat of it along with 623A/623B for bad angles combined with kuugas and dashes can let you win neutral for free.

[Rhiya]

always dashblock with 6A+B~[4] imo

 

faster to input

[Pnoth]

I was watching a linne play in team spooky 2v2s and she was destroying everyone, they would constantly do 6Cs ad convert to combos with the 624A, they were also doing really nice frame traps by doing ~~5c then jump back and quickly kuuga or just tk kuuga, and it would catch a lot of things,and once they start to read it, do the over head or do a slow 2C. But they never used the roll.

 

What are some good situations to use rolls in? and what is the roll recovery if anyone knows. because roll tk kuuga would be pretty strong neutral game. Im just trying to incorporate more rolls into my game every once in a while. Also has anyone found any cool gimmicks with air kuuga CS?

[Rhiya]

air kuuga cs isn't a gimmick -- it's how you avoid getting wrecked or baited if your kuuga puts you in a bad spot

 

rolling is primarily an option against projectiles in neutral, though yolo rollthrough more than has its place, and if people respect you, you can do really hilarious things during ex kuuga like roll through them twice and empty assault throw for lulz

[CT_Warrior]

Oh yeah, I always input dash as 6AB ever since I switched to stick.

Roll is good to duck under projectiles occasionally and to get a quick burst of speed when they aren't in the position or mindset to punish you for it. You can also cross them up with it, but try to just barely crossup each time so that you fully utiilze the burst of speed to cross them up and are less likely to be hit. It also makes the mixup that much stronger. Basically if you can complete a roll and land behind them before the startup of their move finishes, which is not unlikely due to Linne's speed, you'll dodge their attack and punish them. It's most useful against characters who tend to use high startup ground normals and not so useful versus say Seth.

If they airblock an air kuuga, you can CS land and 6C them. If you throw out a preemptive air kuuga that whiffs, you can CS airdash into another air kuuga or something too I think.

[CT_Warrior]

Kuuga vs grounded opponent when you dont know whether kuuga will hit or block. People may flinch or press buttons; you never know if it'll hit or be blocked. I created a compilation of option selects to cover both, but you may have stronger options if you choose to guess whether they'll get hit or block. Sometimes you know 100% that it'll hit, in which case you just go ham on them with your highest damage combo. There aren't significantly better options if you know they'll block, which was my intention when compiling these option selects.

TK236b mid range: dash immediately 5b
Kuuga hit - dash immediately 5b TK236b
Kuuga blocked - dash immediately 5b into blockstrings (frametrap)
You can TK236b on reaction if you hit; you have a lot of time.

Why not dash delay 5a or dash immediately 5a at that range? Because it's suboptimal:
Kuuga hit - dash delay 5a [6]cc 624a 5b
Kuuga blocked - dash delay...GET MASHED

Reasoning: The [6]cc Hien combo requires a delay after dash for them to drop lower, but if they block the kuuga then your 5A will come out way too late. It's impossible to 5a on reaction and still
get the frame trap. Dash immediately 5b works on the threshhold of a frame trap as it is, and 5a is only one frame faster.

Now let's see what happens with dash immediately 5a:
Kuuga hit - dash immediately 5a into air combo (lower damage)
Kuuga blocked - dash immediately 5a (works just as well as 5b)

Dash insta 5b is clearly the optimal route when you're unsure whether kuuga will hit or be blocked.

TK236b slightly farther range (where dash 5b barely doesnt reach):
dash immediately or almost immediately 5a (dash quick 5a)
Kuuga hit - dash quick 5a into air combo
Kuuga blocked - dash quick 5a into blockstring (frame trap or close)
5a has more horizontal reach than 5b but has a lower damage combo off hitconfirm.

TK236b farther range (where dash quick 5a doesn't cover both options safely): 5c

Kuuga hit - 5C 624A 5B into combo
Kuuga blocked - 5c into 214b or more C moves into ex kuuga or kuuga dash/roll/airkuuga

TK2369B next threshold where 5C doesn't work: dash 5C (6AB5 5C)
kuuga hit - dash 5C 624A 5B into combo
kuuga blocked - dash 5C into stuff

TK236B next threshhold where 5C doesn't work (with vorpal): 624A with vorpal
kuuga hit - 624A into CS into something
kuuga block - 624A into CS into something
I'd personally spend my vorpal on this anyday.

TK236B max range: dashC
kuuga hit - dashC into stuff if they're cornered or if you misjudged the range.
kuuga block - dashC into stuff
Better than nothing if you're in midscreen, and good in corner if you dont want to spend meter (use 214B).

TK236B max or any range: cancel into j236C
kuuga hit - cancel into j236C
kuuga block - cancel into j236C
If you have the meter, j236C is great.

Next up is jump kuuga. You try to do it as fast as you can after jumping. That's the height I tested it with.

72369a/b at 0-4 char widths range: slight delay 5b
kuuga hit - slight delay 5b tk2369b into combo
kuuga block - slight delay 5b into blockstring

72369A/B at some farther range (kuugaA moves you forward so..): 5c
kuuga hit - 5c 624a 5b into combo
kuuga block - 5c into 214b or more C moves into ex kuuga or kuuga dash/roll/airkuuga
By the way,  practice doing 236b 236c as fast as you can without doing 623c so they dont backdash it.

72369A/B after 5C doesn't combo: 6C
kuuga hit - 6C 624A 236C into combo
kuuga block - 6C into stuff, preferably stuff that uses meter or vorpal
You'll likely use this more than the 5c one.

72369B at max or near max range: dashC
kuuga hit - dash C into stuff if they're cornered or if you misjudged the range.
kuuga block - dash C into stuff
Better than nothing if you're in midscreen, and good in corner if you dont want to spend meter (use 214B).

72369B at max or any range: cancel into j236C
Yep.
 

[CT_Warrior]

Blockstrings and blockstring theory.
5a - your fastest poke with higher range than 5B, can be late cancelled into other moves. -2 on block
5b - comes out one frame slower than 5a, -2 on block, have to cancel fairly quickly. -2 on block
2a - same startup as 5a, low range, have to cancel fairly quickly. -3 on block
2b - quick poke with decent range, have to cancel fairly quickly. -6 on block
5c - longest horizontal range, -7 on block
2c - long horizontal range, must be cancelled on block or punishable. not optimal to whiff cancel (e.g. 2c2awhiff or 2c5awhiff)
6c - should be thought of as your "other" c move.

Notes:
2a-2b: your opponent has only 1-3 frames to mash out if you delay 2b as late as possible. it sucks for blockstrings.
5c2c / 2c5c: no matter how much you delay the latter C move, your opponent will be in blockstun and cannot mash out. helps setup 5c[c].
2b5b / 5b2b: there is no frametrap even if you stagger as long as possible. your opponent cannot get hit if they crouchblock and mash 2a. avoid.
Whiff canceling into 5a gives one one frame of advantage than whiff canceling into 2a.
You should stagger the moves as late as possible except for 5a-2c and 5a-5c. There's no way your opponent can mash out with normals, so by staggering you're giving them a bigger window for them to mess up.

Since you can't late cancel your moves, the only way you can stagger optimally and ambiguously to when is to use moves with high startup. For example, 2a-2b only has a few frames where your opponent can mess up while 2a-2c delays the second hit and lets your opponent freely mash themselves into a combo.

Notation: Standard
Dash/Hyphen (-) represents places where you can "reset".
A space ( ) indicates that it's a link, such as 5a 5a, or to stagger as much as you can. It's also used for easier readability.
236B66 indicates that you have frame advantage after your command dash (you get yellow grab if you try to grab immediately). Only works if your opponent doesn't shield.
(X) something in parenthesis means it can be omitted in some cases.

Here are some of your options to "reset" depending on your distance from your opponent at the time of the hyphen.
(dash) 5a/grab/assault. (mixups to punish assault OS, blocking, and shielding) your assault jC is a better mixup when you are within a char width or two from your opponent, and dash assault jC is ambigious with dash grab.
  !You should mix these options in after any 2A/5A/5B!
2b when out of 5a range. used when you're wary of being mashed. whiff cancel to 5a on block to throw out another move, or cancel into C moves into 236B66 reset, or hitconfirm. I usually use it after 5B(full recover) 2b.
5c/6c to punish jumps/backdash and out of 2b range.
tk kuuga / 72369 kuuga
dash bdash dashC/236b/2c/2c/5c/assault/iad to punish reversals and some C normal mashing.
dashC (long range)

Make sure there's no gap between 2c5b on block or hit. You throw out 2c and 5b follows immediately, always. If you get shielded too often, throw out more mixups.

1. pointblank(5a)-5c2c2a(blocked) 5a-2c2b-5c 236b66 (you can roll after commanddash for crossup)
                                                      -2b6b6c236b (if you think opponent won't respect 2a 5a link)
                                5[c]
                                delayed2b-2c-5c/6c-236b(66ab)
close-ranged rebeat string with 5c[c] mixups. good meaty string vs not linne for extended pressure if opponent doesn't shield.

2. 5a-2a-2c5b-5c2b 6c 236a/b/624b
                      -214ba6b624a
mid ranged string. safer string for meaty with good mixup potential. practice this one and fourth string below a lot.
try 5a into grab, 5a-2a into grab/assault, 5a-2a-2c5b into grab/assault, 5a-2a-2c5b-5c2b 6c236b66 into yellow grab or repeat blockstring ad infinitum.

3. 5a-(5a)-2c5b-5c?|2a(whiff)-2b5c 236b66 6b 624a 5b [comboender] if hitconfirm
                                |2b(hitconfirm)214b 6B624A 5b [comboender]
far ranged if omit second 5a. react quick after 5c.
great midscreen string to extend pressure vs no shield.
good meaty string with high mixup potential.
can be used after 6D jC, switch 5b and 5a for more damage hitconfirm damage. (e.g. 6D jC slight delay 5B-2C5A-5C2A/5C2B)
use 5C236b66 or dash 6D jC after 5C2a(whiff).

4. mid(5a)-5c2a(blocked)-2c5b-6cc236b66 (6c versus zero respect)
                                                 2b5c 236B/624B! (most common option, 2 frame gap)
                                                                   66 6b 624a 5b [comboender] if hitconfirm
string with three places to reset. better mixups, less bad vs shielders.
no need for quick reactions in contrast to string #3.

 

[bellreisa]

i started compiling notes for each matchup, but have been sidetracked with stuff so it isn't complete. i'll put up my personal opinions on numbers and see if it leads to anything

 

 

AKATSUKI - 6.0/4.0

 

CHAOS - 6.0/4.0

 

NANASE - 6.0/4.0

 

HILDA - 6.0/4.0

 

 

HYDE - 5.5/4.5

 

SETH - 5.5/4.5

 

BYAKUYA - 5.5/4.5

 

 

ORIE - 5.0/5.0

 

ELTNUM - 5.0/5.0

 

 

CARMINE - 4.5/5.5

 

YUZURIHA - 4.5/5.5

 

GORDEAU - 4.5/5.5

 

MERKAVA - 4.5/5.5

 

VATISTA - 4.5/5.5

 

 

WALDSTEIN - 4.0/6.0

[SonicBoomBrad]

WALDSTEIN - 4.0/6.0

 

As a Waldstein main, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Maybe we can help each other out. Because I have a lot of trouble in this MU. Though I haven't really played a good Linne in a while.

[Toki]

KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGA

[drugtown]

KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGA

 

the cause of, and the solution to, all of life's problems

[Ayane]

As a Waldstein main, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Maybe we can help each other out. Because I have a lot of trouble in this MU. Though I haven't really played a good Linne in a while.

TBH I think I'd rather fight Wald than Gord personally. But essentially why this is hard for Linne is because Wald has huge normals that will beat out anything Linne can do at max range.

 

The easiest time to see this is when you have a Linne backed up to the corner (which isn't hard to get them there as Wald). She could successfully DP your hand hitbox, and you could still punish her (if it was a grounded attack she DP'd anyway). Kuuga startup is typically too slow to try and throw at as a reversal in pressure, and all her other long range moves (C moves) are just as slow. 

 

Also most of Walds attacks have hitboxes that cover Linne assault.

 

That's pretty much it as far as I've experienced. She doesn't have great AA's but 623A/B can work on assault j.B attempts. Wald basically gives Linne the same problems that Gord does. Just seems like they are more of a risk for Wald then they are for Gord.

[Rhiya]

I feel the other way around -- I have hella trouble AAing spaced assault, and most of wald's scary shit is far outside Linne's happy range to retaliate. Furthermore, ending strings in mujin/max distance kuuga isn't safe vs. wald w/ meter, because he can just drop the 720 on your arse and make you cry. Your anti-Wald poke game also feels harder than anti-Gordeau poke gameto me, but it may just be lack of exp talking on that one.

[Thancruz]

Just started uniel over the weekend. Just kind of gravitated to Linne as i saw more footage of her. My buddy who plays Wald is just kicking my ass, jump in? AA'd. Assault? AA'd. It's like every button he just shuts her down and you gotta take some risks to start anything in this match. I'm loving the game but Wald is just annoying lol.

[Tachyons]

6C is a good move against Wald.

[spiralfang]

U can use 6c to confrim into a lot off her stuff

[drugtown]

didn't see anything about it before, so:

 

66C > delay B kuuga > dash cancel 5B > air combo > ender nets about 2.6k and is a lot safer to just throw out than 66C > hien

 

shouts out to that dude in the leisureland akiba twitch chat for telling me something the rest of the world has probably known for weeks orz

[Rhiya]

Realistically, info on Linne is kind of scattered and sparse at the moment, so a lot of people probably -didn't- know that.

 

The main bnb list for US use, linne.txt, isn't even directly linked to anywhere on the site hosting it, including the Linne wiki. The google doc with framedata also has a bnb list, but that's also not readily available or particularly easy to find. And -- this is arguably worst --  most of the matchup info I know is either in my personal notes, or in logs of chats with other Linne players and players of other characters, and matchup info in general isn't anywhere anyone could find it.. Overall, Linne information is not easy to find for the western community at the moment.

 

I do have a mizuumi wiki account, and can edit the wiki (which I will be doing at some point), but right now, Linne info is kind of hard to come by unless you're willing to dig around or ask.

[xlolxlolx]

hit me up if you want editor access to the spreadsheet on google docs, i dont really play this game much at all