[UNIEL] Yuzuriha

[Tomo009]

Don't use her force function. It's just not good. It's too slow, doesn't get good damage, and leaves you crazy open. Also, you can get more damage by replacing the 5B after 214B~D with 2C > 4C.

 

For longer confirms, you'll want to go into something like Confirm > 4C/2C > 236A > 421C > 214B~D > 66C > j236AB > j236C/j421C. That's the kind of combo you'll need to do after 6D.j2C or throw. So, for example:

 

6D.j2C > 5A > 5C > 4C > 2C > 236A > 421C > 214B~D > 66C > j236AB > j236C/j421C

 

Also, the 66C following air normals is a bit tricky. You have to slightly delay your first air normal and then let the rest of it rip to get the most consistent results.

Ah I was already doing basically that off other confirms, so should be easy to make myself do that off awkward confirms too. What I was doing was basically just fumble confirm xx 236A 236B 236A 214B~D > 66C ender on awkward confirms before.

 

My biggest problem with 66C is after 214B~D which I've been using at the end of a lot of my combos, like the one you just mentioned. I know it is just timing, but it is eluding me haha.

[vanfleihight]

Apparently the game displays damage and hitsparks 1 frame after a hit registers so I updated the previous posts to reflect that.

[Tari]

Info dumping my frame data stuff here, too. Almost all matches yours, van. I marked in red the differences. If it helps, superflash is probably universally 20 frames long and counts for 1 frame of startup. Not guaranteeing that, but it is true for Yuzu's 236c.


(edit: static diff for any moves that don't have it listed here might be in van's frame data tables: post 190 and post 193)
 
 
Normals:
(parenthetical numbers in this section are static diff)
 
5a: 5 (-2)
5b: 10 (-11)
5c: 12 (-10)
 
2a: 6 (-3)
2b: 9 (+/-0)
2c: 12 (-9)
 
4b: 18 (-9) - counter from frames 8~12*. If it catches anything, Yuzu is fully invuln until she recovers. Does not catch things that hit lower body.
4c: 12 (-7)
 
*range estimated by testing against frametraps and projectiles, no guarantees on these being the only counter frames, though it seems likely
 
 
 
66b: 9 (-5)
66c: 10 (-28) - goes airborne by frame 6 if animation is accurate
 
 
j.A: 8 (15f blockstun, 11f hitstop) (p1: 0.72, p2: 0.96)*

j.B: 9 (17f blockstun, 11f hitstop)
j.C: 12 (17f blockstun, 12f hitstop)
j.2C: 13 (17f blockstun, 12f hitstop)
j.2[C]: 23 (17f blockstun, 12f hitstop) (p1: 0.72, p2: 0.94)*
 
 
*these P1 and P2 values are estimated and based on BB's proration system. They do NOT take into account character combo rate. It isn't clear if this is the same system used in UNIEL.
 
 
=====
Stance Moves:
(parenthetical numbers below are if move is performed while already in stance)
 
note: 236a/b are -7 if d-cancelled fastest possible, and +26 if you remain in stance
 
236a: 17 (10)
236b: 17 (10)
236c: 14 (7)

j.236a: 22 (10)
j.236b: 22 (10)
j.236c: 19 (10)
 

 

note: 6a/b/c are -5 if d-cancelled fastest possible

 

6a: 16 (6)
6b: 16 (6)
6c: 16 (6)
 
j.6a: 15 (5)
j.6b: 15 (5)
j.6c: 15 (5)

 

 

note: 214c is -6 if d-cancelled. 
 
214a: ~20 (~12)*
214b: ~21 (~13)*
214c: ~15 (~10)* - invuln on startup, haven't tested exactly when invuln wears off, but it's probably frame 15.

 

j.214a: ~22 (~12)*
j.214b: ~23 (~13)*
j.214c: ~13 (~10)* - like the ground version, also invuln on startup


*these are measured at what I assumed to be the closest possible hit
 
----
(the teleports were measured to the first frame of wind effect, which seem to be the first frame of invuln)

 

update: the grounded in-stance teleports go invuln on frame 4, not frame 5 as initially thought. This has been tested with terrible methods. This would imply that the non-stance teleports are all 1 frame faster than I estimated, so I've adjusted the numbers accordingly, though I haven't actually tested all the numbers, and I'm unsure if this applies to the stance dashes.
 

421a: 15 (4)
421b: 15 (4)
421c: 15 (4)
 
j.421a: 13 (4)
j.421b: 13 (4)
j.421c: 13 (4)
 
 
stance dash (ground): 9
stance dash (air): 9
 
 
======
 
Blockstring + Rebeat Stuff:
 
 
5C > 5A (whiff): -1
5C > 2A (whiff): -3
5C > 2B (whiff): -8

2C > 5A (whiff): -1
2C > 2A (whiff): -3
2C > 2B (whiff): -8

5B > 5A (whiff): +/-0
5B > 2A (whiff): -2
5B > 2B (whiff): -7

 

236X > 6X~D (whiff)): +1
 
 
tk/low j.214a/b~d (spaced properly and at the right heights): +3 on block
 
ground 214b~d: -3 on block

 

 

 

 

 

 

5A/2A > 236A~D: -7

5A/2A > 236A > Throw Whiff: +3 (theoretically useful)

 
 
======
 
Other:
 

 

IW: 13f startup 

 

jump startup: 4 frames
 
throw startup: 4 frames
 
stance jump startup: 2 frames

ground stance recovery (if d-cancelled): 33 frames
 
 
ex move superflash: 20 frames (1 frame startup, 19 frame freeze)
chainshift superflash: 40 frames (1 frame startup, 39 frame freeze)
 
 
D-paired stance move input startup is the same as if the move were performed outside of stance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOTE: stance dashes and stance dodge will flip you around to face the opponent if you're facing the wrong way in stance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

====

 

UNIB DATA (from original game, not UNIEL)

 

Note: Startup and total numbers on supers may not include superflash, but I can't say for sure.

 

 

236C

• Startup: 13F
• Active: 5F
• Total: 38F

j.236C

• Startup: 18F
• Active: 5F
• Landing Recovery: 11F

214C

• Startup: 14F
• 1st Hit Active: 3F
• Landing Recovery: 33F

j.214C

• Startup: 12F
• 1st Hit Active: 3F
• Landing Recovery: 33F

Infinite Worth (41236D)

• Startup: 12F
• 1st Hit Active: 3F
• Total: 147F

 

 

5A

• Startup: 5F
• Total: 18F
• Static Diff: -2F

2A

• Startup: 6F
• Total: 20F
• Static Diff: -3F

[vanfleihight]

Ok yeah I double checked and fixed all the moves with super flashes. They should be accurate now. Super flashes for EX moves are "1" frame. Super flash for IW are variable so I checked by shielding a -10 normal and punishing with it.

 

j.2C I'm pretty sure is 13F. 13F vs. 14F

[Tari]

Did you use assault to test the overheads? I realized after I tested that assaulting before the overheads was a terrible idea, because it lets you buffer the input on the rising portion of the jump and generates weird numbers if you only look at the button press timing. It's why I need to double-check my j.2c value, though I ended up doing that one the old-fashioned way and just counting from the first frame of animation anyway. I'll go back and double-check it later tonight to see if I get the same numbers as you.

 

 

edit: I'll have to double-check my numbers tomorrow. Passing out.

[vanfleihight]

I just did raw jumps.

 

On a side note, maybe other people knew this but apparently shield only "shields" the first hit for multi-hit moves so it doesn't apply the 3 frame recovery bonus to the last hit. This also applies to gapless blockstrings.

[Tari]

Updated j.2c value, definitely miscounted the frames, haha.

 

Updated my list with the rest of the data I bothered getting. Seems to agree with yours, van, though your 2A advantage seems off.

[JettyLovefield]

Assault into hold j.2C and fake is also a good fake for mix ups but i guess everybody uses it

[Elemenope]

Decided to leave the merkava army to play Yuzu, and it's a struggle for me ;.; She just feels so incredibly awkward in neutral with her attacks and range x.x I suppose a lot of it is just learning the proper situations for batou and confirming off it (which I don't do since I suck at the moment x.x ) but it feels like quite a challenge regardless. It feels like i'm trying to do too much in neutral perhaps with her techniques, mainly d-canceling too early and picking bad times/screen positioning for teleport.

 

I'll probably end up sticking with her regardless since playing her is actually fun and rewarding when you do win, but until then, i'll be crying in a corner ;.;

[BlackYakuzu94]

Ok, I need to pick up another character while learning this character, because if I keep focusing on her alone and keep losing, I'm going to go insane.

[nadakaineko]

Assault into hold j.2C and fake is also a good fake for mix ups but i guess everybody uses it

 

Just because everyone uses it, doesn't make it any less useful.

 

Thanks for the frame data, btw! It's very useful.

 

I've been doing better as of late in terms of matches -- still a long way to go but incorporating battous is the way to go. Once I get more comfortable with her battous and stance stuff, I'm gonna have to learn the more advanced confirms and converts. OTL

[JettyLovefield]

Just because everyone uses it, doesn't make it any less useful.

 

 

 

 

 

I mean in terms of news, just wanted to try leaving a little help 

[nadakaineko]

Oh, sure! Didn't mean to come off as abrasive -- I just hear people justify not doing something because everyone does it a lot, haha.

 

It's good to point that sorta stuff out, of course.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Anyone know other good frame traps?  so far I've only come up with 6C>236B.

[Starrk]

I like to do 236A after a block string then hold A wait a moment then do C > 236B. It's the best that I have so far. Stuffs a lot of retaliation

[nadakaineko]

I personally like 2C (delay) 4C to fish for people mashing there. 4C confirm is massive damage!

[kazukifafner]

Yuzu has a ton of frametraps. You can slightly delay your cancels and turn virtually all normals into frametraps (with the added bonus of making them easier to confirm). Pretty much any normal into battou is a frame trap as well. And if they block the first battou and you still want to pressure, delaying stance normals works for frametraps as well. Zoning battous aren't technically speaking frametraps, but sometimes they might as well be.

[JettyLovefield]

Yuzu has a ton of frametraps. You can slightly delay your cancels and turn virtually all normals into frametraps (with the added bonus of making them easier to confirm). Pretty much any normal into battou is a frame trap as well. And if they block the first battou and you still want to pressure, delaying stance normals works for frametraps as well. Zoning battous aren't technically speaking frametraps, but sometimes they might as well be.

Yeah, you have choice of keeping the stance or get out of it as you want. So it makes all of her moves a big guessing game.

Still haven't got used to her pressure but she's pretty good for these sort of stuff.

[Starrk]

Ok so I don't think that TK 214 A/B is +3 on block. I tested it with Eltnum and her cr.A beats out yuzu's st.A.

 

Also, what are common block strings and pressure string y'all like to use?

[Tari]

Ok so I don't think that TK 214 A/B is +3 on block. I tested it with Eltnum and her cr.A beats out yuzu's st.A.

 

Also, what are common block strings and pressure string y'all like to use?

 

It's definitely +3, but you have to space it properly. If you do it too close to or too far from the opponent, you give up your advantage. If you're too close, the hits all connect too early before you land and you end up neutral or negative on block, and if you do it too far, you run the risk of not getting all the hits and/or pushing yourself too far from the opponent to actually mash 5A.

 

You also have to remember to d-cancel the move before you touch the ground.

[Tsurael3]

For this corner combo, I can't seem to get the 4C after the falling jC. 

6D j2C -> 5A -> 5C -> 236A -> 8jc~D -> jC -> 4C -> 2C -> 236B -> 214A~D -> 66C -> j236A -> jC(stance) -> j214B~D -> 66C -> 421C~D

Also having trouble with this one, getting the 4C link, but 2C after drops everytime. Tried delaying, mashing it out, and on multiple dummies and haven't gotten it to connect even once, what am I missing? 

[Tari]

Also having trouble with this one, getting the 4C link, but 2C after drops everytime. Tried delaying, mashing it out, and on multiple dummies and haven't gotten it to connect even once, what am I missing? 

 

Use 66B instead of 4C > 2C (ie: ...236A > 8/9D > j.C > (land) 66B > 236B > 421A~D > ...). Where are you getting that combo from? It looks like someone wrote a j.2[C] combo route instead of a j.C route by accident.

[-Kef-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUgtBEuuEfs

 

Great Yuzuriha gameplay by Maakun. He uses a lot of 6C on wakeup, I wonder why. Does it catch backdashes? Is it because it is an easy meaty?

[kazukifafner]

Also having trouble with this one, getting the 4C link, but 2C after drops everytime. Tried delaying, mashing it out, and on multiple dummies and haven't gotten it to connect even once, what am I missing? 

 

Interesting. If the 4C connects, the second hit of 2C should as well. I guess you have to try to hit jC a little lower.

[Tari]

Interesting. If the 4C connects, the second hit of 2C should as well. I guess you have to try to hit jC a little lower.

4C doesn't have a guaranteed path into 2C. The 2C also just straight up doesn't work in some situations (ie: vs Chaos).