Jthan Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Staffless 6C into OTG 5C doesn't work on Noel, cause she's such a skinny bitch that when she's on the ground the 5C doesn't hit her. I'm pretty sure it works on everyone else though, except maybe Carl, but who the fuck plays with him anyway?
EmphyNAPS Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Staffless 6C into OTG 5C doesn't work on Noel, cause she's such a skinny bitch that when she's on the ground the 5C doesn't hit her. I'm pretty sure it works on everyone else though, except maybe Carl, but who the fuck plays with him anyway? It does not work on Carl, Noel, and V-13.
JinSaotome Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 So, does anyone have a good feel for Litchi's matchups yet?
Lord Knight Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Out of the one's I've played - Vs Noel: 6/4 Vs Ragna: 4.5/5.5 Vs Jin: 6.5/3.5 Vs Taokaka: 5.5/4.5 Vs Hakumen: 5/5 Vs Bang: 6/4 Vs Tager: 5/5 EDIT: I just realized how vague this was so time to clear some stuff up and back up my reasoning. Noel vs Litchi is just a match of patience and safety, just Litchi does it better. A lot of Noel's shit is not safe so it's pretty easy to escape, and if you have the staff you can punish her even harder. However if she's willing to risk it, Noel can get in on you with 5D or 3C if she guesses right, so you gotta make use of all of your ground to ground pokes. Noel (air) to Litchi (ground) is not too good, she is really fast and can maneuver easily through your anti-air pokes. As far as air-to-air, Litchi can handle Noel and keep her out pretty easy, but Noel's jC is pretty good so you gotta space carefully. Ragna vs Litchi is really annoying, it's hard to play vs a character that can punish you for what you're supposed to do. Basically you just need to be very creative vs him, because he can also keep you out very well. Your jB is nothing against his 6A so you can't really jump in, and a misplaced poke will be punished by 5B or 5C, so just play smart and be creative to get in and it gets easier. Jin vs Litchi is pretty free for Litchi, Jin can't really punish her for that many things, and he can't get in on her either (she don't want no scrubz). If you choose to be aggressive, just be careful about DP's because they do help him a lot. Taokaka is really annoying but once you get the hang of it it's not too bad. Litchi's jC will beat Taokaka's as long as she doesn't go in too deep, and that's a free combo right there. Also you can just DP Taokaka out of her stupid fly around tricks/resets, and you can IB a couple of her normals and punish with 5B into combo. I don't have much exp with Hakumen yet but he's really annoying, he can match you in range and beats you in damage, but you're faster and can control situations better. 6 is your friend if you want to bait a sheild, and he can't nullify Kokushi Musou at all. You can't fling staff at will though because he can do the super counter on it, but you can bait it with staffless 623D/421D. Bang is an interesting matchup for Litchi, but once you learn what to do she can handle it. Her jB pretty much beats his air anything, but you can't just jump in because he can anti-air guard jump (you can jB and jump away though, then punish). If he's in bang install, just block, dp and pray you hit him, it's pretty much over if they know what they are doing. While he has shurikens just play patiently and jump into the angle where the triple one can't hit you. Playing against Tager is kind of like playing against Hakumen, you have to be aware of what he has and play really cautiously in order to not get owned. As long as you aren't magnetized you can just kind of stay out of range of his approaches, and after he does it you can 5B (whether it blocks or hits) - for example, Tager does 2D, you walk back and 5B him into string or combo if you hit him. Once you get magnetized this doesn't work as well, so you can try to DP him out of some string but if you're too predicatble he can just command throw you. The DP should be a tool to keep him cautious of doing it, so always try to have the staff if he's pressuring you. Basically just don't get magnetized and you'll be ok.
Lord Knight Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Are there any additional moves where Litchi is considered staffless? So far I got 6C, 3C, 6A and 426D.
Shining Aquas Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Don't know if it's relevant, but a backwards ground throw can link into 41236D~A and then to whatever you want.
Chun Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Don't know if it's relevant, but a backwards ground throw can link into 41236D~A and then to whatever you want. The other option is 623 D, which I see Emphy use more often. I've been working on that iteration and the only real use for it (that's worth the timing/placement risk for the 2C 6C follow) is to further put them into the corner. The other is more damaging, from what I could see. Bang is an interesting matchup for Litchi, but once you learn what to do she can handle it. Her jB pretty much beats his air anything, but you can't just jump in because he can anti-air guard jump (you can jB and jump away though, then punish). If he's in bang install, just block, dp and pray you hit him, it's pretty much over if they know what they are doing. While he has shurikens just play patiently and jump into the angle where the triple one can't hit you. I don't think you can really punish a good Bang with a jump in and then jump out again. Teleport tricks will eat you alive all the time when you're doing any sort of j.B, 5B, 5C, whatever has some sort of frame on it (All it takes is contact). Same happens with the aerial autoguard he has. I would argue that Litchi has a bad matchup with Bang; since he's also one of the only characters that can punish or IAD over most of your ground options safely. I see it as 4:6 for Bang. ~Chun
Veteru Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Hi Chun, just wondering -- is Emphy the guy with the ponytail?
Lord Knight Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 The other option is 623 D, which I see Emphy use more often. I've been working on that iteration and the only real use for it (that's worth the timing/placement risk for the 2C 6C follow) is to further put them into the corner. The other is more damaging, from what I could see. I don't think you can really punish a good Bang with a jump in and then jump out again. Teleport tricks will eat you alive all the time when you're doing any sort of j.B, 5B, 5C, whatever has some sort of frame on it (All it takes is contact). Same happens with the aerial autoguard he has. I would argue that Litchi has a bad matchup with Bang; since he's also one of the only characters that can punish or IAD over most of your ground options safely. I see it as 4:6 for Bang. ~Chun Nah. If a move is jump cancellable, and he does a guard point on it, you can just jump away. Like if you do a 5B and he guard points it, just react, jump and FD and you'll be safe. It's also really easy to just bait them and get free CH's off them. The teleport guard points are more annoying but you can still stop whatever you're doing and block the other way if your move has fast enough recovery, or if it's jump cancellable you can just jump and FD.
Chun Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Hi Chun, just wondering -- is Emphy the guy with the ponytail? Yeah, he's the other Litchi player that was there that day with the ponytail. He had a tougeki card with him as well. I'll have to test this some with Gor's Bang then LK. I'll post again when I do get another match. ~Chun
Climhazzardous Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Urgh, so Litchi vs Noel. I have concluded that playing staffless against her is the much better option most of the time. Too tired to go into specifics now but think about it.
Chun Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Urgh, so Litchi vs Noel. I have concluded that playing staffless against her is the much better option most of the time. Too tired to go into specifics now but think about it. Most of Noel's moves when she's in drive on the ground is easy j.B to ground fodder, and when she tries for any of her ranged bursts your 5C does the reach job if you dodge it correctly. In fact, zoning with Litchi's mantenbou keeps Noel coming at you because her range is so limited; getting in close for normal pokes is covered by your staff. Your j.B also beats most of her air options with staff. I've had relatively small trouble against Noels; if you're in one of her blockstrings just hold jump and faultless, and you're sometimes open to just j.b with staff into a combo. ~Chun
Lord Knight Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Vs Noel, 2D and 5D are unsafe on block, however she can protect yourself. For example she can 2D 5D, and if you 5B after blocking 2D, you'll get hit. If she does something else though you're good. If you think she'll do something to protect herself, just block or DP, if not just 5B or block. The crossup one (don't know the input) has to be IB'd to be punished, and also protects her after those unsafe starters.
Ceirnian Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Hi Chun, just wondering -- is Emphy the guy with the ponytail? Wait Veteru, were you in socal this weekend? I was at the Cali regionals and entered the SC4 tournament. I was the norcal guy who came to play Blazblue at alts house who ran the brackets / played ABA in guilty gear / dressed business like. I probably didn't see you at the arcade since most of my time was spent outside chilling with people while I waited for my matches to come up. Did chat with Mike Z abit though. Also Emphy was the Litchi player at Denjin? No wonder I was losing to him, I played Litchi as well but I haven't put much time into the game so he was doing combos I didn't know of. Didn't enter the tournament though, but good games Emphy. Seeing the combos in action gave me a better idea as to how they work, looking forward to really delving into this game when it hits console. Sorry to derail the thread, I'll go back to browsing for combos I should practice the next time I happen to be near a machine.
Climhazzardous Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Most of Noel's moves when she's in drive on the ground is easy j.B to ground fodder, and when she tries for any of her ranged bursts your 5C does the reach job if you dodge it correctly. In fact, zoning with Litchi's mantenbou keeps Noel coming at you because her range is so limited; getting in close for normal pokes is covered by your staff. Your j.B also beats most of her air options with staff. I've had relatively small trouble against Noels; if you're in one of her blockstrings just hold jump and faultless, and you're sometimes open to just j.b with staff into a combo. ~Chun The Noel I play will never use her Drive when I'm in the air. When I have my staff equipped, my ground to air is pretty useless; Noel just does run in 5A or even worse 6A and AA's me for free. j.B is good if spaced but it's easy for Noel to run under and 6A will always beat it regardless anyway. Thing about j.B and j.C is that they have hitboxes towards their side. So I thought about it abit, and found that j.C without her staff is ALOT better to jump in with (not that you wanna jump in all the time obviously). Oh, if you have the staff equipped j.2D is actually good, but be careful since it has got recovery. 5C with staff is good yes, but it hasn't got amazing recovery. He still IAD's into me when he spots it sometimes. Noel's air to ground, I try to use 2C, but it isn't that effective and it's slow (I would DP but the sticks are rubbish because I just end up getting a staff set and getting punished =/). Though that's just execution and it doesn't count toward the match up I know. Basically, if I have Litchi's stick, 90% of the time I wanna DP; doing her BnB with the staff is good and all, but it's so hard to catch Noel. And if Noel does 3C, what punishes her (staff equipped)? Or do I have to IB? Litchi's alot faster without her stick; 2C hits better; 5C has alot less recovery and is pretty good bait. It's also great that I can combo 2b into 3C. As for combos, I just do something like 5C, 2C, 3C, 623/421D, 2B, 2C, j.B, dj.BC, D, C etc or dj.B 236BC is staff isn't close. I find that camping around my staff against Noel is really effective. Keep in mind the Noel I play rarely uses Drive outside of combo's, because whenever she does I do punish her most of the time...but punishers with the staff outside of DP aren't that useful. I mean, 2B is very good at interrupting her pressure, but what does it combo into? At least without the staff you can do 2B, 2C into combo. Also, the Noel tends to mix it up abit when she does use her drive attacks for mix-up and pressure. Normally I'd punish her after that spinny gun thingy, but now he mixes it up with other crap that would simply go through my 5/2A. Though I need more patience on my part for that I guess. I don't think the match-up is in Noel's favour mind you, but I guess since it's so early I'm having trouble dealing with her BS.
Lord Knight Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 One of our Noel's is the opposite, he likes baiting jump-in's and times 5D so that if you do an attack when you land, he gets a fat combo. Litchi can jB through her 6A but it's not really that common or reliable. 2C isn't too good of an anti-air because it's too easy to jump around that angle. It's a pretty good anti-jump though, I started to use it in blockstrings recently and it does it's job pretty well. 2B isn't too good for punishing really IMO, 5B does a much better job at that. 2B > 6B or 6A with Matenbou. If Noel does 3C and you have a staff, just 5B it. You have all day, don't need to IB. Also, current staffless corner combo I'm running: 5B 5C 236A 236C 5B jBC land 5C 2C jB dj jBC (j236B j236C).
Climhazzardous Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 One of our Noel's is the opposite, he likes baiting jump-in's and times 5D so that if you do an attack when you land, he gets a fat combo. Litchi can jB through her 6A but it's not really that common or reliable. Noel he uses, uses drive to bait and punish bursts and counter attacks (E.g. 5a x N and because I try to hit him before he can get in again he's started mixing it up with 5D to go right through my attempted counter attack; I should probably backdash more). And yeah I agree with j.B, it's possible but the spacing is really specific and maneuvarability in the air isn't as good as ground obviously, so you just get people dashing to the correct position for an AA. 2C isn't too good of an anti-air because it's too easy to jump around that angle. It's a pretty good anti-jump though, I started to use it in blockstrings recently and it does it's job pretty well. Exactly what I think. 2B isn't too good for punishing really IMO, 5B does a much better job at that. 2B > 6B or 6A with Matenbou. If Noel does 3C and you have a staff, just 5B it. You have all day, don't need to IB. Also, current staffless corner combo I'm running: 5B 5C 236A 236C 5B jBC land 5C 2C jB dj jBC (j236B j236C). The reason I say 2b is because I seem to get CH'd out of 5b quite alot. I kept trying to use it as a punisher for things like Noel's 3C but it get's blocked (maybe I'm just slow); I also try using it against Noel's 2/5A spam but I just end up getting CH'd and eating a combo. Even if I FD'd and did 5B when we have some distance, Noel's 5A would win. It's like, Noel either wins or you both trade CH's. I'll experiment more though. So I stopped using it and stuck with my jabs instead, and the only other good interrupter I found was 2B, which will always net you a counter hit if the Noel tries to run in and do anything else or even do a Drive attack. And without staff that's a free combo. That corner combo is also pretty sweet, does it work on Noel?
Lord Knight Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 It probably doesn't work on Noel because she can't be 5C'd on the ground, I haven't tried doing 2B 2C, but from messing around any time I have to 2B 2C in combos like that, they can tech. I guess the 2B is good cause the hitbox is low? I'll try that. 5B has been my main poke out. And Noel can RC the 3C to make it safe so that might be it too. So if she's doing dash 5A strings and that hitbox is all the way up there you can just 2B it for free? I started doing 2B RC/2B 6B RC to get damage off lows, cause 1000 was not enough for me either.
Climhazzardous Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 It probably doesn't work on Noel because she can't be 5C'd on the ground, I haven't tried doing 2B 2C, but from messing around any time I have to 2B 2C in combos like that, they can tech. I guess the 2B is good cause the hitbox is low? I'll try that. 5B has been my main poke out. And Noel can RC the 3C to make it safe so that might be it too. So if she's doing dash 5A strings and that hitbox is all the way up there you can just 2B it for free? I started doing 2B RC/2B 6B RC to get damage off lows, cause 1000 was not enough for me either. Meh, we only just got the game so it's most likely my inexperience speaking. But yeah I realised the 2B kept on interrupting her if she tried to run in again or do anything else to continue pressure. I never knew it combo's into 6B though, that's pretty useful; and 6B combos into 6C right? That could be pretty useful, gives me something to try out and be inventive next time I guess. I see 2B, 6B feignt into throw being pretty useful however; because then you can mix it up with CH 6B if they try to break your through out of anticipation. I mean, you can always DP out of Noel's pressure, but sticks won't let me do it on reaction and makes it a risk lol. So I just play stafless and have a much easier time tbh. Does 6B or 6C combo/cancel into her DP or Mistfiner stance btw?
Lord Knight Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 6B chains into 6C, it doesn't combo. Really, if I don't feel like guessing what Noel is gonna do out of her drives, I just DP it. I usually only like being staffless in the corner becuase the staff really supplements her offense. Having the staff is what really puts this match in Litchi's advantage imo. I believe on 6C's recovery you can do a staffless move? Actually I wanna try to see if 6C 236B 236C works, that'd be cool if it did. I like shenangians like 2B 6 6A/2B/throw when I have meter.
Climhazzardous Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Oh yeah sorry, when I said 6A earlier, I meant 6B.
Lord Knight Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 6C jump cancellable and you can kinda combo off it. Gonna mess around with it later.
Shining Aquas Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 6C is the spinning staff correct? Honestly, I'd be trying to follow that up with Straight through upper, if that's possible.
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