[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[4Corners]

Carl is also Jigglypuff from Melee. It's do or die. Lately, I've been doing less doing and more dying. D: Heyyyyyyyyyyy What do you guys use to approach/get them sandwiched offa blocked fueco? Should I be doing fueco, iad karacan, 2a, 5a, 5b, iad j.2c allecan stuff, or what? I need to know what to practice since tomorrow's going to be my last day to work on technicals before the tournament. The rest of those days will be spent playing people online. Is karacan iad really that quick of an approach? I'm always paranoid about them being able to reaction punish it, but I have a feeling it's like a random tao drive that you have to predict, first.

[4Corners]

OMFG Then I guess I'll hafta hit you up on thar sometime. I need some good ol' Carl dittos to show me what's wrong with my approach methods, or complete lack thereof.

[Kyle]

...

2. 22D (during Carl's throw animation) - 236A(you swith sides with nirvana on the other side) - 44 - 2B - 2C - 8D - clap loop or throw loop.

...

Try this: Much easier timing.

B+C, 22]D[, 236A, 5C, 8]D[...

[Kyle]

We got.. a projectile... WTF?

[4Corners]

bwha? I'll work on a translation today. I can see if'n my japanese teacher is willing to help real quick. Get any other scans you have to me within the next hour or so.

[ZONG_one]

Projectile replaces Clap. :X (Dangerous Speculation.)

[4Corners]

I wanna know what the fuck Dizzy's fish is doing in this game.

[Kyle]

Definitely a cameo. =P If this new projectile replaces 8]D[ I do hope it's air unblock. Probably has too much recovery & Start-up to do throw loops but it would be nice to still keep our unblock option off of OTHER set-ups. =/ Tech-trap Forceguard from people jumping out of sandwich pressure. (J.A)xN~8]D[

[ZONG_one]

Definitely a cameo. =P

If this new projectile replaces 8]D[ I do hope it's air unblock. Probably has too much recovery & Start-up to do throw loops but it would be nice to still keep our unblock option off of OTHER set-ups. =/

Tech-trap

Forceguard from people jumping out of sandwich pressure. (J.A)xN~8]D[

If my loops are gone, my lulz are gone.

So I move to maining that other semi cool looking chick.

:]

Or inventing new loops with Carl.

[Kyle]

I would be happy if they removed Carl's JB+C, 8]D[ loops. All they would have to do is - Add more guardstun to 6]D[, let the new 8]D[ be Chargeable & Air unblock This would gurantee (1) relaunch.

[ZONG_one]

I would be happy if they removed Carl's JB+C, 8]D[ loops.

All they would have to do is -

Add more guardstun to 6]D[,

let the new 8]D[ be Chargeable & Air unblock

This would gurantee (1) relaunch.

1 Relaunch, + 2 Rapids. I can deal with that.

I've also thought about them changing his j.B+C.

I see that as a real possibility.

(Again, pure speculation, as I've spent quite a bit of time thinking of which route ASW would take to "fix" this "brokenness.")

[4Corners]

All they have to do is make clap blockable. Then do a billion things to make Carl not garbage.

[Kyle]

All they have to do is make clap blockable. Then do a billion things to make Carl not garbage.

But this takes away his options. We want fair match-ups with unique options like air unblocks.

I just realized, IF CLAP WAS BLOCKABLE, we would have a HUGE Guardstring in the sir.

(J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, Jump Cancel, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, 8]D[, Land)xN

[ZONG_one]

BTW Kyle, we main the same color Carl. And we're both named Kyle, if that's your real name. Weird, huh? (I also sub the Christmas time Carl outfit. It's very rare, but after so many mistakes trying to pick my color, I finally decided not to let it bother me. Every once in a while, I even pick it on purpose!)

[Kyle]

BTW Kyle, we main the same color Carl. And we're both named Kyle, if that's your real name. Weird, huh?

(I also sub the Christmas time Carl outfit. It's very rare, but after so many mistakes trying to pick my color, I finally decided not to let it bother me. Every once in a while, I even pick it on purpose!)

Yes my names actually is Kyle Wattula.

4Corners called it UPS Carl. But I go with brown because "Brown's the new Green". Which is in direct contrast to the GreenMachine JackG.

[ZONG_one]

Yes my names actually is Kyle Wattula.

4Corners called it UPS Carl. But I go with brown because "Brown's the new Green". Which is in direct contrast to the GreenMachine JackG.

lol. I go with brown, because at first, my tv showed it as orange.. But I soon realized that wasn't the case.

And about that j.A guard string. Say goodbye to your barrier/libra if you get stuck in that..

(After about 20 reps.)

[Kyle]

lol. I go with brown, because at first, my tv showed it as orange.. But I soon realized that wasn't the case.

And about that j.A guard string. Say goodbye to your barrier/libra if you get stuck in that..

(After about 20 reps.)

LOL. Than that gives Carl 8]D[ unblocks again! LOL

Only difference is 80% prorating due to guardbreak.

[4Corners]

lololol New clap loop ... j.bc~8d If they guard break, they're stuck in blockstun, IAD in, jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa8d*n j.bc~8d lololol Who cares about proration? So what if our combo will take 80 seconds to do half life? --

[ZONG_one]

lololol

New clap loop

... j.bc~8d

If they guard break, they're stuck in blockstun, IAD in, jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa8d*n

j.bc~8d

lololol

Who cares about proration? So what if our combo will take 80 seconds to do half life?

--

I watched a faust infinite video on potemkin. Like hundreds of hits, prorated like whoa. They time lapsed it, and it still took forever to watch.

[Zoogstin]

To get rid of or nerf the clap loop they need to increase the recover of 8D. That is main reason why the loop works. Think about it, after the 2nd throw you're already starting another 8D before Carl even lands to relaunch.

[ZONG_one]

To get rid of or nerf the clap loop they need to increase the recover of 8D. That is main reason why the loop works. Think about it, after the 2nd throw you're already starting another 8D before Carl even lands to relaunch.

It takes skill to get the relaunch though. They may just make gravity affect him less after air throw, so he won't make the relaunch. I dunno. I hate doing this...

...yet I can't help it.

[Zoogstin]

It doesn't take that much skill. Even if it did, it still doesn't take away the fact that the throw loop is retarded when one can obviously use it practically in an actual match.

[soujiro seta]

Am I the only one who kinda wants his loop gone? I mean don't get me wrong I like his loop and all but it makes carl a one trick pony. Yes we can win without it but the loop is just too effective to ignore. I just hope that if his loop goes they atleast they make him a decent character. I want carl to be one of those high risk - hard to master - high reward characters. So that when you face a high level carl, you'll really be impressed at the amount of work he put into him and skill he has. Many people don't really see what other stuff carl can do because we simply don't have to do it. All we do is just throw loop. Whereas for rachel/hakumen we completely toss away the throw loop and have to be on our game especially if they're good. How many times have I pulled those come from behind loop wins against the rest of the cast. My opponent, after a burst, would work hard to get me to a sliver of health only to accidentally land in the loop and lose. I'm not saying that the rest of the cast are completely easy to beat, but all we had to look for was a loop opening, and that was it. Good hakumen/rachel players really push us carl mainers. We don't get an easy way out, and we have to work to win. Because of those two we had to find resets. Because of those two we realized we would have to get better and simply just can't fall back on loop as the saving grace. Because of those two we became more eco friendly and have to make sure everydrop of nirvana is not wasted. My point is that both of them really made us have to look for things that we wouldn't have looked for had the loop worked on them, thus making it where a carl player would have to have a deeper understanding, beyong loop, of what carl can do in order to win. This took carl from being simplified, "Lolz two mistakes loop I win", to being a bit more complex, "Hmm I'm gonna have to do this and bait hakumen into doing a counter so I can reset". I want carl to have somewhat of the el fuerte factor from Sf4. When you faced an el fuerte you knew he had to know what he was doing, and 99% of el fuertes did, because they had to, because elf was so bad that they couldn't afford to mess up and had to be on top of their game at all times. And when an el fuerte player was good, he was really good. I mained elf in Sf4 and many people would send me messages always saying "man your elf is beast" and congratulating me for being able to win regardless of how many obstacles I had to face to beat them. I congratulate tager players all the time, they don't have it easy at all, he can't fall back on anything and has to earn everything. I like characters like that, characters that can really show someone's true skill. Most people just see carl players are "Loop only", and that's not true. Im not saying that I want carl to become like this because I want praise or anything, no, far from it, but I just like that uphill battle of using a somewhat low tier character to win, having to know the matchup better than my opponent cause my character isn't too good, having to be on top of my game at all time, not having the luxury to make mistakes, etc. I personally like that challenge, and I hope carl becomes that kind-of-a character. I just can't stand those noob friendly-don't have to do too much characters (Ryu/Sagat SF4, Nu/arakune/jin), and carl's loop almost makes him feel like that. He's not noob friendly, but you don't have to do much if all your opponent can make is 2 mistakes, and in some cases 1 if you predicted their burst.

[Zoogstin]

Dude I just said the loop was retarded. I've been saying that. But other than that I agree with ya. I played El Fuerte as well. Good times..... I think.

[Mikachiru]

...Which loop again?? The Clap loop?