[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Zoogstin]

9-6 works for me.

[PhaethonH]

ok another question.

when doing things like 2A,2B,3C, 22D, IAD....

how are u guys inputting the iad? this has been bugging me for a while and is probably just going to come down to muscle memory but is there a way that u guys prefer? like, i've tried 6~8~6 and after getting frustrated for awhile, I tried 9~9. After that wasn't getting consistent for me, I just started jumping the 3C and inputting the dash (66) as fast as I could which worked ok but iunno if that's gonna fly when I want to IAD as an approach outside of combos. Wouldn't that way be slower?

Is there like a favorite input for IAD'ing?

For distance, I use 956, carried over from Guilty Gear.

For proximity, I use 7 656. The backward jump provides more distance and time for the j.2C to land closer [to launch point]. I think the effective distance is approximately 1.5 Carl widths. In any case, as the 3C hits, I tap 7, then start the 66 before even seeing him take air. It's not like 3C is dash-cancelable, so done right, the buffered 7 takes precedence and the 66 registers for the air dash just as Carl really takes to the air.

[Galeon]

thanks again, guys. the neutral in between 9 and 6 helped alot.

[Zoogstin]

No prob. Well fellas I have a tournament on Saturday wish me luck. With that said, I honestly think that the BB scene in NC will be dead afterwards. People are either getting really frustrated with the game or quitting altogether. I think I'm the only one left (literally) who still likes it AND plays it regularly. Someone hold me. T__T

[4Corners]

That sucks hard, Zoog. Why? Cuz NC is scrubalicious, or whut? Also, does that mean you actually know RyyudoYHB irl? He goes to a lot of NC/SC animecons. Either way, just move to CO. We have a pretty healthy scene, and two Carl players would be tiiiiiiiiiiiiight. We need to superjump while telling Nirvana what to do. It's like Mahvel all over again.

[Zoogstin]

No I play with good people. Titanium Beast who probably probably has the best HOS on the East Coast and Frank the Tank who has the best May in the country. A lot of frustrations come from the way the game works for them: - There's very little block stun in this game so locking down your opponent ,if you for instance play Ragna, becomes really hard to do (instant guard and jump blocking > everything) so it encourages you to have to be as random as possible to break your opponents defense which isnt' a good thing. Ever fight a scrubby arakune and lose because he just spammed dives? As Carl players the lack of blockstun is a saving grace considering how we can't reach anybody even if they do something unsafe but for the rest of the cast if your opponent is doing a block string on you all you have to do is instant guard and then do whatever you feel like to knock your opponent out of their offense. - In addition to this Oki is kind of meh due to the tech system. Some characters can take advantage of it better than others. This really doesn't bother me though. - The top 3 and Carl's throw loop are too good. One of my friends feels that Carl is a garbage character with one Really good combo. While even though without the throw loop Carl isn't as bad as Tager or Hakumen and he has a couple other damging combos, if you're fighting a person who's REALLY good, you HAVE to throw loop if the opportunity comes. You don't have the luxury of goofing off with your opponent and seeing if you can beat them without the throw loop and using gimmicy mixups instead. Simply put the Top 3 and Carl aren't annoying because they're good but because all of their ways of winning is just really stupid. Some of this is over generalizing I know. After talking with TB we agree that Carl is an exception to a lot of things because his range is so garbage. But I personally feel we lucked out because we have a really retarded trap. With that said, play more BB!!!! But also at the same time be praying for a patch REAL SOON!!! This game needs it.

[soujiro seta]

Did you guys know that you could loop after 236236D? I didn't

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOG7F-5jDUc&feature=channel_page

1:31 - 1:40. Assuming he did nirvana's clap a bit earlier it would have connected.

Ever fight a scrubby arakune and lose because he just spammed dives? As Carl players the lack of blockstun is a saving grace considering how we can't reach anybody even if they do something unsafe but for the rest of the cast if your opponent is doing a block string on you all you have to do is instant guard and then do whatever you feel like to knock your opponent out of their offense.

I hate this more than anything. Many characters can get away with so much unsafe crap against carl because of his range. Whereas if they were fighting someone else they would have been punished severly. Especially noel. Unless you have nirvana close by you can't really punish her drive.

- The top 3 and Carl's throw loop are too good. One of my friends feels that Carl is a garbage character with one Really good combo. While even though without the throw loop Carl isn't as bad as Tager or Hakumen and he has a couple other damging combos, if you're fighting a person who's REALLY good, you HAVE to throw loop if the opportunity comes. You don't have the luxury of goofing off with your opponent and seeing if you can beat them without the throw loop and using gimmicy mixups instead. Simply put the Top 3 and Carl aren't annoying because they're good but because all of their ways of winning is just really stupid.

Some of this is over generalizing I know. After talking with TB we agree that Carl is an exception to a lot of things because his range is so garbage. But I personally feel we lucked out because we have a really retarded trap.

With that said, play more BB!!!! But also at the same time be praying for a patch REAL SOON!!! This game needs it.

The top 3 and carl's throw loop are too good, yes, but atleast carl's loop is "almost" justifiable. He's not too bad without his throw loop, and you can beat a lot of people without it, but as you said once you start fighting real good people you'll see why once you get the chance, you have to take it and that is the only to really keep up with them. I've experienced this first hand, and I've lost several matches were I missed the opportunity.

Thats the thing, many people cry on about how "carl is broken", but until they use him and face really skilled opponents, then they'll start to see why in some cases throw loop is the only way to win.

I wouldn't necessarily group carl, as a character, with the top three, but rather only his loop. But then again it's somewhat vague to even include his loop with the top 3 cause certain factors after his loop as well. Arakune, rachel, and v-13 don't depend on any meter to do what they are doing, cept rachel but it refills up pretty quickly. When you're fighting someone good and who knows the matchup, you can almost waste nirvana's meter just trying to get them in loop position, only to have it finish as you're about to start. So carl's loop is dependent on something, nirvana's meter, that can be deplenished. Also, 4 characters can escape it for free. Add that to the fact that people have the chance to atleast burst and escape, then you have to waste nirvana's meter, assuming she has any at this point, to get them back in. So nirvana's meter, 4 characters, and a burst hold back carl's loop. Whereas nothing holds back v-13, arakune, and rachel from doing what they do. Add that to the amount of cons and hardly any pros carl has (lowest health/guard libra, get's negative penalty too quickly from running too much, nirvana's attacks can be stopped so easily and meter is wasted, etc) and you almost have a character that needs something "really drastic" to stand a chance against the rest of the cast. Do you see what I mean? As to why his loop is "almost justifiable"?

[Zoogstin]

Yes I see. This just proves that Carl's character design is sucks and needs to be fixed. Yes eveybody has a "goto" combo for optimum damage so it can make things pretty stale in a fighting game. Its just that my gosh what a "goto" combo the clap trap is. @__@ My tournament is tomorrow wish me luck. I definitely stand a chance of winning. But seriously know one is really excited about it here. T__T I'll still be online playing you guys but I'll be more depressed because this game has too many issues.

[4Corners]

GOGO ZOOGS! RAAAAAAPE!

[Zoogstin]

well guys I'm back. Got 2nd. I made it all the way to winners and won that. So I got into grand finals. But I just couldn't fend off Frank the Tanks Rachel. It ended up being 3 to 3. We both had to win one more and I just couldn't pull through T_T. Everyone was rooting for me though.

[stinkymonz]

OMG congrats. Vids please.

[4Corners]

Good shit, Zoogz. How the HELL do you fight Rachel? I was losing to a Rach that didn't even combo properly with her, simply because I got zoned out. D:

[Zoogstin]

You block really well and spam the crap out of 41236D to try to get in. Once you get in on a good rachel you got to be random in order to hit him then just ground loop him to death. I had to RC alot to block his bursts and then keep on doing what I was doing. I could've won but he certainly deserved his win. Once I bursted I had a really hard time instant guarding his 6A's since they're unblockable otherwise. The grand finals of BB I don't think got recorded, but winners finals did. I beat Frank's Rachel then he tried to counter pick me with Nu, whom I ended up beating as well. An unfortunate event happened to me in the grand finals. During the first set, my stick croaked on me in the middle of a match. So I had to give the match to Frank. That was a horrible feeling. So had to play someone elses stick. It wasn't quite the same feel but it was the best stick for me to use at the time. Some times I dropped some ground loops because I wasn't able to dash properly.

[Fullforcefafnir]

Hey, thanks a lot for the guide!

[4Corners]

I'm sorry. I feel that, hardcore. My stick is kinda mushy right now, so I drop a lotta stuff, but I'm used to the feel, so I'm not faring much better on anyone else's stick, either. Gonna fix that today, methinks. EDIT: For those not in the know, you can make Carl's roll throw invincible! Just input 1ABC a little bit before you enter someone's throw range, and voila! Untechable counter-throws are teched! lol, defenseinthisgameisstupid

[Braver]

why the hell does 2A (or was it 2B?) whiff on V-13 at times? It cost me a tournament. Dumb game -.-

[Zoogstin]

That happened to me online last friday. I lost the match because of that. BB sucks -_- lol

[4Corners]

She has REALLY small feet, and you're hitting too early into the 6d. I took this to training mode. Easiest way to avoid it is to roll, then wait for just a second, then 2a. Or just avoid 2a after the punch and go for mix-ups. I'm trying to keep myself from doing the same loop more than once, unless I want the opponent to go on auto-pilot for defense. Then I like to repeat the same pressure once or twice, and end with a tick from 2a, 5a, or RC 6b. Good times.

[x3AlexSaysRawr]

Okay, I just picked up Carl for a sub last night and tried him in training mode. I have way too much trouble getting Nirvana's clap to come out in the clap loop. I know I have to go like [D]8]D[, but I have trouble doing that unless I hold D again after Nirvana does the clap so I can pull out the next one on time. But If I do that I have trouble doing Carl's 2C. Sorry if that was confusing but help if you can answer that. Another question, how does Carl keep up with opponents in general? They all seem to be able to quickly combo and get him away form Nirvana leaving me helpless. ;A; All help is appreciated.

[Kyle]

Congrats Zoogs. =) Alex- The inputs can be much faster than you'd expect. 2C, 8[D]~]D[ works fine because Carls 2C does NOT jump cancel. You must learn the teleport combo,

[Diveman]

I was thinking, regarding characters that can escape the clap trap, couldn´t Litchi use daisharin (great wheel...the one that looks like millia´s secret garden) and input directions so that the staff stays around nirvana (sure, she will still get hit by the clap, but carl wouldnt be able to continue because the staff would be there). Of course when she´s staffless she´s dead, but, just an idea.

[Kyle]

That could REALLY help that match-up. Needs testing... I'll try in a bit.

[feri]

I noticed yet another a bad habit of mine.... When people tech out of the throw loop I don't deactivate nirvana. It seems like the perfect time to do it but I'm so worried about the positioning that I always forget.

[Kyle]

Bad habits.. my worst is when the opponent throw breaks my first Airthrow and I AD at them instead of landing and dashing. That's a guaranteed combo-drop. lol I Just ordered the parts I needed to MOD my PS2 Stick into 360 Glory! Some down time on shipping but I will be fuck'nRocking&Fuck'n Rolling soon enough. =)

[Zoogstin]

Dat's whats up. Kyle's true Carl powers will rise to take over Xbox Live.