[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[Zero000]

Might take awhile, but i guess i'll start copying the stuff to a excel spreadsheet and see what will happen from there

[Zero000]

Getting the stuff down on the excel spreadsheet. Getting this stuff translated might take a little longer though. hold tight

[Yggjrasil]

32 frames, it's unchanged.

It seems a bit faster on Continum Shift, or I'm just seeing things...

[Zero000]

NOPE

It's 32 frames, I remember checking the frames right after Final Ultima posted

[redsilversnake]

I'm having trouble ending BE combos with 22C. Is there any specific timing or something?

[VR-Raiden]

I'm having trouble ending BE combos with 22C. Is there any specific timing or something?

First question to always ask is, did you do 3C or 2D in the combo?

If so it shouldn't be hard to time it, if you do it from 5D(2nd hit) just cancel right into it after the 2nd hit hits.

on that note, can you still do 22C in a combo after offensive burst in CS?

[Zero000]

on that note, can you still do 22C in a combo after offensive burst in CS?

Will try out tomorrow. But something tells me yes.

[redsilversnake]

First question to always ask is, did you do 3C or 2D in the combo?

If so it shouldn't be hard to time it, if you do it from 5D(2nd hit) just cancel right into it after the 2nd hit hits.

on that note, can you still do 22C in a combo after offensive burst in CS?

The combos I typically use are

5B>5C>5D (2 hits) (DC)>6A (SJC)>j.C>J.D (JC)>j.C>j.214C>6D>j.D (JC)>j.C>j.214C>5D (2 hits)

and

5B>5C>6C (2 hits) (DC)>5D (2 hits) (DC)>6A (SJC)>j.C>j.D (JC)>j.C>j.214C>6D>j.D (JC)>j.C>j.214C>5D (2 hits)

I do sometimes land a 3C and follow up with 5D, but the above two are the ones I use the most.

As for 22C after offensive burst, I haven't seen it done, but I'd imagine you can, since the opponent gets pretty close to the ground before they can recover. You'd probably just have to move forward a bit.

[VR-Raiden]

The combos I typically use are

5B>5C>5D (2 hits) (DC)>6A (SJC)>j.C>J.D (JC)>j.C>j.214C>6D>j.D (JC)>j.C>j.214C>5D (2 hits)

and

5B>5C>6C (2 hits) (DC)>5D (2 hits) (DC)>6A (SJC)>j.C>j.D (JC)>j.C>j.214C>6D>j.D (JC)>j.C>j.214C>5D (2 hits)

I do sometimes land a 3C and follow up with 5D, but the above two are the ones I use the most.

To end with 22C, you have to use 3C or 2D in the combo. Otherwise it just wont come out.

[FlyingVe]

It seems a bit faster on Continum Shift, or I'm just seeing things...

It's no faster but I believe it's a bit bigger. Which could explain why people jump/backdash out of it a bit less. It could also be fear of ragna now that he's more dangerous.

[Final Ultima]

To end with 22C, you have to use 3C or 2D in the combo. Otherwise it just wont come out.

Just to add to this, it has to be done on a grounded opponent too, landing 3C on an aerial opponent will not have the desired effect because it doesn't knock down. Technically Kakato Otoshi works too, but good luck with that against anyone but Rachel, Tager and Haku-Men.

[VR-Raiden]

It's no faster but I believe it's a bit bigger. Which could explain why people jump/backdash out of it a bit less. It could also be fear of ragna now that he's more dangerous.

Maybe another possible reason people thought it was faster is cause his voice is different, shrug.

[Spirit Juice]

Protip: if your BE is not "clean" (meaning all the hits aren't untechable), your opponent can tech before the last hit that ground bounces them. However, it's a bit hard to tech because of BE hitting so frequently, so it often ends up as a "blue beat" combo. If this happens, it counts as them being in an OTG state within the combo, even if you didn't do 2D or 3C at some point in the combo to ground them. In cases like these, you can end the combo with 22C. Very useful and something you should look out for in a match.

[Yggjrasil]

In a way, BE = GV without having to mash for Clean Hit...and wait, Sugita Tomokazu doesnt do Ragna's voice anymore in CS?

[Final Ultima]

Protip: if your BE is not "clean" (meaning all the hits aren't untechable), your opponent can tech before the last hit that ground bounces them. However, it's a bit hard to tech because of BE hitting so frequently, so it often ends up as a "blue beat" combo. If this happens, it counts as them being in an OTG state within the combo, even if you didn't do 2D or 3C at some point in the combo to ground them. In cases like these, you can end the combo with 22C. Very useful and something you should look out for in a match.

Note to others: A slightly wordier explanation of the above can be found in the newly updated Frequently Asked Questions section of the Ragna the Bloodedge 101 thread.

Amusingly enough I was working on the update before I saw that post too, so I suppose its just as well someone mentioned it again so I could segway into the update.

[redsilversnake]

Protip: if your BE is not "clean" (meaning all the hits aren't untechable), your opponent can tech before the last hit that ground bounces them. However, it's a bit hard to tech because of BE hitting so frequently, so it often ends up as a "blue beat" combo. If this happens, it counts as them being in an OTG state within the combo, even if you didn't do 2D or 3C at some point in the combo to ground them. In cases like these, you can end the combo with 22C. Very useful and something you should look out for in a match.

Dayum. I'll have to remember that.

In a way, BE = GV without having to mash for Clean Hit...and wait, Sugita Tomokazu doesnt do Ragna's voice anymore in CS?

They re-recorded the VOs for the cast of the original game, so they sound a bit different. Sugita is still Ragna's seiyuu, he just calls out Dead Spike in a slightly different manner than in CT.

[Yggjrasil]

Carl Clover(Sawashiro Miyuki) sounds way more different, I almost was convinced that they replaced the VAs. That's interesting about the BE combo thing, I'm gonna have to try that later tonight.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

What move should i use to serve as a frame trap for 2C to make a hole smaller than like, 4 frames on normal block and if i expect them to IB > Poke?

lawl fail typos ;_;

[-Ladon-]

I'd say 2C again, but i don't know the frame data from other moves, I mean if you frame trap them you get a fatal for free.

also 2C does gatling into 3C so you can 3C-jc.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

I'd say 2C again, but i don't know the frame data from other moves, I mean if you frame trap them you get a fatal for free.

also 2C does gatling into 3C so you can 3C-jc.

well yeah, thats my point though, cause 2C frame trap is gdlk. mashing 2A > makes people pretty antsy, when you hear/ think theyre gonna mash out, just follow along into a 2C frame trap, BAM huge damage, teach them not to mash, and you get better pressure overall.

but 2C 2C is an eleven frame hole, gai >

yeah, hitconfirm at close range into 3C, a little farther into like, 5D or something.

[Spirit Juice]

What move should i use to serve as a frame trap for 2C to make a hole smaller than like, 4 frames on normal black and if i expect them to IB > Poke?

As far as stuffing them in a four frame window, Ragna's only choice would be 5A, which is bad (2C is +1 on block and 5A is 5 frame start up). IBing 2C would leave you at -4, so most people would be able to poke you out of something if you let 2C recover completely. You can always cancel into gatlings or specials; it's your choice, really.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

As far as stuffing them in a four frame window, Ragna's only choice would be 5A, which is bad (2C is +1 on block and 5A is 5 frame start up). IBing 2C would leave you at -4, so most people would be able to poke you out of something if you let 2C recover completely. You can always cancel into gatlings or specials; it's your choice, really.

Blah, sorry for my piss poor wording. im talking about catching people who mash throw /2a in the middle of strings so if you try to liek, 6B or something at a close range, youll eat a hit. Because yes, people do that ;_;

I meant as in what would i cancel into 2C to make a frame trap, as in, what has 8-11 frames of blockstun that i can cancel into 2C? And considering IB, what before 2C has 13-16 frames of blockstun? Also, i want to keep it <4 frames because it can catch everything, including dat 5A, but the real good part is that it also catches people who are like LAWLUPBACK because of that hit during jump startup, wonderful thing is that you can combo into 3C / 5D for some pretty good damage as well. essentially, it forces a block throughout the string without letting them do something like hold upback and get out of mixup, but also gets people who try to mash out (coughbangplayers5a) with a FC for some nice damage

[-Ladon-]

yeah that was worded poorly

close up 6D-j.D-2C should be enough even on IB to bait for counters, other than that nothing comes to mind other than deadspike to bait but that's really risky.

I don't really think there's a gatling BEFORE 2c to frame trap reliably in, maybe 2B-reset-2C might catch people off guard but yeah

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

well the thing is, most people try to mash out when you do 2A 2A blah blah. i play noel, so this jab pressure is kinda familiar to me. but what you want to do is frame trap them as they try to mash out of that jab pressure (i dont understand why you just wouldnt block in CS, but okay) and then carry that over via blockstun so that it comes out later on, like as noel, 5A 5B is a legit string, so 5A pressure until the mash, then 5B 5C (like, 2 frame hole) for CH into a 4.5k combo. im trying to do the same thing with ragna, except using 2C. But the thing is, you dont want to break the string by keeping it airtight so that if they mash, it wont come out until much later, where you would hit them during startup netting a FC

[-Ladon-]

actually, 6A might be pretty solid since most people will expect a safe jump cancel and it doesn't really have all that hit stun(again going from CT figures since I don't have CS frame data)