[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[-Ladon-]

I haven't updated my post because I can't remember the exact damage numbers but 5B-5C-HF-RC-3C-delay 5D-6A/5C-JC-j.C-j.D-j.C-BE-5D-22C is about 3.5k and the best I could come up with for a good RC combo off HF

[Final Ultima]

"Dead Spike (214D or QCF+D)"

Well caught. Fixed.

[Lasci]

Not sure if this is the right place or I should be taking a look at the critique and improvement thread, but I seem to be having trouble with this Ragna combo: 623C -> 236C -> delay 236C, 5B, 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.C, j.D, 623D -> 236C -> 214C For whatever reason, I feel like the timing is especially picky. I keep hearing this as a staple combo for Ragna, but it seems like it does pitiful damage and it feels really hard to pull off. I have no issues with most of his other BnB combos, however. Am I just being entirely n00bish, or should I really try getting this one down pat? And, if so, are there any tips or recommendations you could offer?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Got BBCS mook today. Probably a ways off from full translation, but a couple of tidbits: 5B active time increased from 5 frames to 8. Recovery frames adjusted from 19 to 16, so it's still -7 on block. 5C active time increased from 2 frames to 5, recovery from 36 frames to 20, -8 on block. 2C startup decreased from 14 frames to 12, active time increased from 1 frame to 3, recovery from 23 to 13. +1 on block. 6D startup increased from 22 frames to 26. BK 6D same as CT. Dead Spike now +5 on block compared to +3 in CT. Belial Edge listed as being -2 on block. Hopefully I'll get a chance to work on data in earnest pretty soon.

[FlyingVe]

^^ All of that is awesome, especially +5 Dead Spike, +1 2C, and 8 active frames on 5B (take that back-dashing Tagers) Does the mook say anything about 2D? I've heard it's safer (and it certainly feels faster). Also is Dead Spike still -1 in BK?

[-Ladon-]

I had a feeling 2c was plus on block, dayum, makes me feel like I'm noel with such a rediculous fatal bait and good to know I was correct on BE being pretty forgiving as well. lol@ds getting even more + frames, jesus

[-Ladon-]

Not sure if this is the right place or I should be taking a look at the critique and improvement thread, but I seem to be having trouble with this Ragna combo:

623C -> 236C -> delay 236C, 5B, 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.C, j.D, 623D -> 236C -> 214C

For whatever reason, I feel like the timing is especially picky. I keep hearing this as a staple combo for Ragna, but it seems like it does pitiful damage and it feels really hard to pull off. I have no issues with most of his other BnB combos, however. Am I just being entirely n00bish, or should I really try getting this one down pat? And, if so, are there any tips or recommendations you could offer?

be mid-screen, as they're passing above your head about to crossover hit 5B then 6A

if you're having trouble timing the 5B just try doing 6A, and then work on 5B's timing, you're right, it only lands ~2.6k damage but that's 2.6k damage on an invincible reversal, making the combo generally worth it

[FlyingVe]

That combo isn't so much for damage as it is making the most out of a reversal ID. The hardest part is the 5B, you want to connect with it right before they drop below you belt. Also it won't work on Carl and Rachel, and seems to be a bit finicky (but totally doable) on Bang. In summary, this isn't a combo you will be running up to people and doing, but if you get the opportunity to ID through something, and the ID gets both hits, then this is your go to combo. If you ID only gets one CH hit, the dash 5B>followup.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

shrug I may hold off until Enterbrain releases any errata for the guide. The DS frame data initially makes no sense to me, I see no reason for it to be +5 now since the frame data appears to be the same as it was in CT. 2D frame data appears to be the same. BK DS is still -1 on block.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E17N2fVnyjg

someone explain o_o

[Final Ultima]

Hitboxes, pure and simple. The Ragna doing 5C is able to pass through the other Ragna thanks to Black Onslaught's invulnerability (specifically, the absence of a defensive hitbox for his upper body), at which point he's leaned too far in for Black Onslaught to connect. You could do crazy stuff like that with Sol's 6HS in Guilty Gear too.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

Hitboxes, pure and simple. The Ragna doing 5C is able to pass through the other Ragna thanks to Black Onslaught's invulnerability (specifically, the absence of a defensive hitbox for his upper body), at which point he's leaned too far in for Black Onslaught to connect.

You could do crazy stuff like that with Sol's 6HS in Guilty Gear too.

Haha i can see some 6HS stuff happening. I didnt know that could happen with that o_o

BO has weird properties :I

[-Ladon-]

Litchi's 5B will whiff right through Ragna if he CS' on top of her although I don't know the frame timing I had it happen to me playing a Ragna who did random CS and I whiffed and ate the 2nd hit :[ so a close friend of mine who lives closer to me than CTF got a BBCS cab, anyone know the best way to record video on a cab?

[rush21hit]

when I was trying some blabbering button mash with Blood Kain Mode,I find something interesting. J.D in Blood Kain Mode can be used for something like Dustloop just like Sol did on Reload,and I can do it for like 5 times aerial D,and end it with 214C.Wait,it can follow up for some more... after long trial mashing,I realize that it could not be used for practical combos since it has tight timing,even tighter that OR on AC dustloop. and it was like this: 5B,5C,6C,Blood Kain activate,run jump jD,jD,djc jD,land 5S,jc,jC,jD,djc,jD,214B,214D(Rapid Cancel)...I forgot the rest (>.<) eniwei,this is Gunblaze :D i forgot my password so I make new ID :D

[-Ladon-]

DLoop is completely practical and has a variety of setups, this is nothing new and it is especially viable in CS, there's multiple ways to get to using it in the ragna combo threads, please make sure you're checking those threads before you start posting about combos

[VR-Raiden]

Does Dead Spike actually come out faster in CS? It seems the same to me, but I could be wrong. Also, does D Inferno Divider take a guard primer after the 1st hit blocked or 2nd hit blocked?

[Yggjrasil]

Dead Spike in CS,It seems a tad bit faster, Its notable if you use it alot. I remember there being something on Dead Spike changes on the Ragna CS changes topic.

[-Ladon-]

dead spike startup looks about the same, however the frame it actually hits seems to come sooner(this could explain the extra + on block) so overall the move looks faster because you have extra recovery frames.

[FlyingVe]

I feels a frame or two faster to me, Bang playing friend has alot more trouble jumping out of it then usual (though that could be execution). However, it's still slow enough to really get you killed sometimes. D.ID takes away a guard primer on which ever hit connects first. It's actually decent if you know the hit will guard crush someone.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I think I mentioned earlier that mook frame data shows DS as having the same startup. This is why I wanted to see if they were going to release the errata for the guide in case some of the data is wrong.

[S-Alpha]

Something rather strange and stupid I worked out a while ago. Not the most practical D Loop variation, given that it has two air throws, but it's still quite... Something. More of a theoretical kinda thing, but it may have its uses. Placement is probably the worst part, as you have to be near the corner, but not too close in, nor too far. Give about a Tager-sized gap between the opponent and the wall, maybe a bit more. (Blood Kain) 6D, j.D, (jc), Airthrow, j.D, (land), 5D, (dc), 5D, (dc), 6D, j.D, Airthrow, 214B+214D. Does a pretty crippling amount of damage, but it has its (big) weaknesses.

[Kain]

Something rather strange and stupid I worked out a while ago. Not the most practical D Loop variation, given that it has two air throws, but it's still quite... Something. More of a theoretical kinda thing, but it may have its uses. Placement is probably the worst part, as you have to be near the corner, but not too close in, nor too far. Give about a Tager-sized gap between the opponent and the wall, maybe a bit more.

(Blood Kain) 6D, j.D, (jc), Airthrow, j.D, (land), 5D, (dc), 5D, (dc), 6D, j.D, Airthrow, 214C+214D.

Does a pretty crippling amount of damage, but it has its (big) weaknesses.

Protip: If it has Purple Throws, then it doesn't belong to the Combos threads. Final Ultima even specified as much in the first post of the thread.

And what's up with 214C>214D? Don't you mean 214B>214D?

[-Ladon-]

Sooooooooooo anyone wanna tell me where the proration chart went? :[

[Final Ultima]

With the mook now out and with full frame data on the way, Veteru asked me to take it down. Don't worry, I'll post a complete frame data and changes thread when the information becomes available.

Until then, I'll post the proration changes here.

5A same 80%*82%

5A 165 -> 200

5B 75%*90% -> 85%*90%

5C 100%*89% -> 85%*90%

5D1 same 100%*92%

5D2 same 100%*75%

6A 60%*89% -> 70%*89%

6B 90%*89% -> 80%*89%

6C1 80%*89% -> 90%*89%

6C2 80%*89% -> 90%*89%

6D same 80%*92%

2A same 80%*82%

2B 80%*84% -> 90%*84%

2C 90%*89% -> 100*89%

2D same 90%*75%

3C 100%*75% -> 100%*84%

jA 80%*82% -> 90%*82%

jB 90%*84% -> 100%*84%

jC same 90%*89%

jC 680 -> 760

jD 80%*80% -> 90%*80%

jD 720 -> 680

5T 100%*70% -> 100%*65%

5T 1200 -> 800

4T 100%*70% -> 100%*60%

4T 1100 -> 800

jT 100%*70% -> 100%*65%

HF 100%*70% -> 75%*70%

HF+ same 100%*92%

GH1 100%*92% -> 89%*89%

jGH same 100%*92%

GH2 same 100%*75%

GH2 950 -> 650

DS: 100%*92% -> 80%*92%

CID1: 75%*92% -> 70%*92%

CID2: 75%*92% -> 70%*92%

DID1: 100%*92% -> 100%*92%

DID2: 100%*92% -> 100%*92%

Upper: same 100*92

Yoko Fukitobashi: same 100%*92%

Kakato Otoshi same: 100%*92%

Mada Owari Janee Zo: same 100%*92%

Mada Owari Janee Zo: 800 -> 400

CarnageScissor1: 100%*92% -> 85%*92%

CarnageScissor2: 100%*60% -> 85%*60%

Yami ni Kuwarero: same 100%*92%

Offensive Gold Burst: 100%*80% -> 80*80%

[-Ladon-]

Ah alright good stuff