[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Yeah, you're doing better. Still, sometimes you need to calm down and just block or wait a second before attacking. Still seems like you flail sometimes when there's almost no chance someone is going to stick anything out.

[Xill]

GGs to TitaniumBeast again, I still need to work on reacting to shit in general but I think I'm improving as far as hitconfirming and knowing my zone of attack goes. Ah well, as I keep playing I should improve with time.

You going to the Gameyard on Sunday?

[Prototype909]

You going to the Gameyard on Sunday?

Still thinking about it.

[Xill]

Still thinking about it.

Just thought i'd ask. Hoping you wanna hit the tournies at least when they drop. We really need all the people we can get if BB wants to stay up in MI.

[Final Ultima]

So, I was playing around with Ragna recently, and I was able to get a combo that does about 9.2-9.3k against Haku-Men, although I was only able to land it two or three times. I'll post details in the combo thread when I get confirmed damage, but suffice to say, it is combo video fluff of the highest variety.

[UZI4YOU]

So, I was playing around with Ragna recently, and I was able to get a combo that does about 9.2-9.3k against Haku-Men, although I was only able to land it two or three times.

Is this CT ragna or the Godlier CS ragna

[Blue Ipod Nano]

"...i just watched a video of kaqn playing ragna, and he did ...BE -> 6A -> (HJC) j.D -> (JC) j.C -> BE -> 5D -> D.ID... was wondering if that could be an alternative to ...BE -> (dash) 6D -> D -> (JC) j.C -> BE... ? or would that be only on CH?..." bump...

[KayEff]

It's an alternative, alright. Probably does less damage, though. And I don't think a CH would do anything to the combo.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

For midscreen, the 6A combo works more easily. The problem seems to be that because of the extra hits from Belial, it becomes a lot harder to follow up. For example:

1. 5B-6A-5C(HJC), hj.C-D(JC), j.C -> BE, (dash)6D-j.D(JC), j.C -> BE: 21 hits 3407 dmg

2. 5B-6A-5C(HJC), hj.C-D(JC), j.C -> BE, 6A(HJC), hj.D(JC), j.C -> BE: 23 hits 3242 dmg

In this case, combo 1 allows you to juggle your opponent with a 3C, whereas combo 2 allows them to tech too high off the ground after the second Belial. For a combo like this, if you get your opponent into the corner, you WANT 3C after a double Belial because the oki you get is too good to pass up. Combo 2 gives you fairly sucky midscreen followups too, you can do 5D into either Hell's Fang (no followup) or Inferno Divider into followups. Midscreen, Hell's Fang juggle is pretty crappy for tech catches (much better in the corner) and Inferno Divider followups give lousy oki midscreen as well. Since you can't hit your followup after Hell's Fang in this situation, you can't even try to push your opponent into the corner. The fact that combo 1 does better damage doesn't hurt either.

Now look at this combo:

3. 5B-6A-5C(HJC), hj.C-D(JC), j.C -> BE, dash 3C-5D(1) -> HF -> Tsuika 3427 dmg

This is an easy midscreen combo that does good damage and pushes your opponent towards the corner. Even if you do 5D into DID followups after combo 2, it still does less damage than combo 3. So really, there's no reason to use the 6A variant. You get less damage and crappy oki for no benefit other than more meter gain from double Belial. Not worth it, IMO.

[FunkyTofuMonsta]

For midscreen, the 6A combo works more easily. The problem seems to be that because of the extra hits from Belial, it becomes a lot harder to follow up. For example:

1. 5B-6A-5C(HJC), hj.C-D(JC), j.C -> BE, (dash)6D-j.D(JC), j.C -> BE: 21 hits 3407 dmg

2. 5B-6A-5C(HJC), hj.C-D(JC), j.C -> BE, 6A(HJC), hj.D(JC), j.C -> BE: 23 hits 3242 dmg

In this case, combo 1 allows you to juggle your opponent with a 3C, whereas combo 2 allows them to tech too high off the ground after the second Belial. For a combo like this, if you get your opponent into the corner, you WANT 3C after a double Belial because the oki you get is too good to pass up. Combo 2 gives you fairly sucky midscreen followups too, you can do 5D into either Hell's Fang (no followup) or Inferno Divider into followups. Midscreen, Hell's Fang juggle is pretty crappy for tech catches (much better in the corner) and Inferno Divider followups give lousy oki midscreen as well. Since you can't hit your followup after Hell's Fang in this situation, you can't even try to push your opponent into the corner. The fact that combo 1 does better damage doesn't hurt either.

Now look at this combo:

3. 5B-6A-5C(HJC), hj.C-D(JC), j.C -> BE, dash 3C-5D(1) -> HF -> Tsuika 3427 dmg

This is an easy midscreen combo that does good damage and pushes your opponent towards the corner. Even if you do 5D into DID followups after combo 2, it still does less damage than combo 3. So really, there's no reason to use the 6A variant. You get less damage and crappy oki for no benefit other than more meter gain from double Belial. Not worth it, IMO.

You need to take meter gain into consideration as well. But midscreen for max meter and 3C ender from 5B midrange i would probably do 5B 5D DC dash 2C 5D dash into either

6A jC jC j214C

or jB jC jC j214C

you can double berial after either of them, im not so sure about the 3C followup though.

they both hit 3.8k+

[Yggjrasil]

Does Ragna still have the insane meter gain from Double BE combos on the console version or did they take that out?

[FunkyTofuMonsta]

Does Ragna still have the insane meter gain from Double BE combos on the console version or did they take that out?

As far as i know the console port is exactly the same as the arcade version gameplay wise barring the ability to pause and mu :o

[Kain]

Depends on what happens to the game with the balance patch 6 months from now.

[prokiller88]

I hope the balance doesn't hurt ragna, because he's perfect right now. If anything, they should buff him by making his 2C hitbox hit at the edge of his sword.

[Prototype909]

I hope the balance doesn't hurt ragna, because he's perfect right now. If anything, they should buff him by making his 2C hitbox hit at the edge of his sword.

He's far from perfect balance wise, but easily fixable. If anything 2C is too strong (Safety + Speed + FC), and BE needs an adjustment on heatgain.

[FlyingVe]

I agree Ragna is a tad OP, but he really only needs small tweaks, mostly to heat gain and un-tech times (double BE is a bit much). Bang and Litchi, on the other hand, would need much bigger adjustments.

[Asdferty]

I dunno what you guys are on, but ragna is OP as all get-out. Have you seen Tsubaki vs Ragna? You are her, except you don't have to charge, have better priority, better meter gain, better wake-up options, do more damage, and easier to play. Mixups and BnB's lead to 4k instead of 2k etc.

Ragna's 22c is dumb, what better oki can you get? A good combo leads the opponent into a terrible grave when they have to eat a mixup as well, often enough to kill them. You get so much meter you have to decide between doing massive BK combos or having rapids for snipe (something) > HF rc > double BE combos that give you the exact same meter you just spent. Maybe you want to just use a CA and just reset the situation to waltz around with an incredibly high priority and meaty 5b again.

Ragna isn't perfect, but dear lord if you think he's balanced you should rethink what the character can do.

[-Ladon-]

I dunno what you guys are on, but ragna is OP as all get-out. Have you seen Tsubaki vs Ragna? You are her, except you don't have to charge, have better priority, better meter gain, better wake-up options, do more damage, and easier to play. Mixups and BnB's lead to 4k instead of 2k etc.

Ragna's 22c is dumb, what better oki can you get? A good combo leads the opponent into a terrible grave when they have to eat a mixup as well, often enough to kill them. You get so much meter you have to decide between doing massive BK combos or having rapids for snipe (something) > HF rc > double BE combos that give you the exact same meter you just spent. Maybe you want to just use a CA and just reset the situation to waltz around with an incredibly high priority and meaty 5b again.

Ragna isn't perfect, but dear lord if you think he's balanced you should rethink what the character can do.

comparing ragna to tsubaki is dumb, tsubaki clearly needs a LOT of love whereas ragna needs minor changes(although huge in the long run)

22c is ragna's best option no questions asked, but he's also based on rush, has low hp, and doesn't walk away safe from most of his blockstrings, I think asking for a good oki is pretty good when you're hit hard in other places.

as for ragna being where he needs to be-he's just about there, the only thing that should be considered is players having a choice between high meter, high damage, and good oki from a combo, which is why he's so damn good right now, every single thing good about his gameplan is met at every distance with the right combos.

there are ideal changes, but now that ark is actually looking at characters, expect certain things to change about ragna.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

1. Meter gain is ridiculous.

2. 2C is fine the way it is, a range increase would just make it stupid.

3. Ragna needs 22C, leave it alone. This game already has problems with a lack of options to force mixups on offense, no reason to take away one of the few good oki options.

4. Meter gain is ridiculous.

5. BK damage is really high, but there's a lot of commitment there so it should probably be left alone.

6. Did I mention Ragna's meter gain is ridiculous? Because it is.

I think that about covers it. Ragna is fine, outside of METER GAAAAAAAIN.

[Asdferty]

I agree, the biggest problem is the meter gain. Maybe make BE not bounce or something, just a knockdown so you can't do double.

As a side question, I should know this but I was thinking about it for the "lets get dumb" thing, can you still charge the second hit of CS to delay it?

I ask because in one of the data things it says hold to cancel now, wasn't sure if it was the same.

If that's the case, double BE into 5d > CS normally allows for a tech before the second hit, but if you delay it it should be a decent setup into either a counter hit if they were mashing, or a block for large chip damage and 2 primers broken. Not a bad trade off if you didn't land a 3c or 2d during the combo and couldn't end with the 22c, seeing as you can't land both carnage hits anyways.

[Zero000]

isn't that super punishable

but yes, you can delay it, but it feels like you don't need to time the release of the D anymore when you're trying to set up a dash 6a followup with the combo. I dunno, maybe it's just me

[Final Ultima]

It never was timed, that was just some confusion with wording based on the old Calamity Trigger arcade move list. You either do the second hit or you don't. There's no point in holding D at all, even if you combo'd it in you'd be burning 50% Heat for something with a minimum damage of just 200.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I agree, the biggest problem is the meter gain. Maybe make BE not bounce or something, just a knockdown so you can't do double.

I think that's excessive really, simply toning down his meter gain (especially on BE) would help, no need to remove combos. I would only agree to making BE a straight knockdown if it had faster landing recovery so you could force oki on someone. Side effect would be that blocked BE might actually be good pressure, but no big deal there either if you ask me.

Honestly, if ASW is really going to tweak characters, they need to change them as little as necessary. If Blood Kain stuff got toned down, I wouldn't be that upset, because while it's really cool stuff, it's not necessary for him to be competitive and some of the BK combos do really big damage. But if they were to say, nerf 2C, or change GH back to CT where you can only combo off of the TK version, I might be peeved.

[Zero000]

Meter gain on BE is pretty good

meter gain on Jump C/D HOLY SHIT

I gotta check how meter works in this game, i just recall seeing a huge spike whenever i use the jump attacks

[Prototype909]

Some notes on Unlimited Ragna from the 5 seconds I've used him -

Triple jump from CT has been removed

Still feels significantly faster

All C Sword Slashes now deal life drain (Includes first hit of Carnage Scissors, Belial Edge and C Inferno Divider first part)

All non-sword C moves do not drain health

Dead Spike only deals one hit, but gains a two part followup (First followup deals wallbounce, 2nd hit grounds opponent)

Significant damage increase

Gains a flashing red sword effect (Remains during his Astral Heat)

Gains a "Flaking" aura, like the ones his drives leave behind

Still has auto-heat gain

Other than that, just Ragna in perma Blood Kain thus far