[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[sergetrigger]

I've been trying 22c combos such as, CH 214A, dash 3C, 22C, dash 5B, 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.D, j.214C, dash 5D, 22C.

But each time i try and go for the dash 5b, they always tech out of it. So guys, I ask you...

What the hell is the timing for that dash?

[Yggjrasil]

its a 1 frame link bro. Its very difficult to do, id say wait till the frame when Ragna's arm is back to his idle position to do Dash 5B.

[Leonil_Requiem]

lol, you can buffer the dash split and landing the 5B it's all that difficult. 1 frame links in this game are kinda different. don't let them scare you. in fact, to make it easier you dash split 5A/2A.

[Legend Of K1]

Dear Ragna boards,

Oh hai =3 just wanted to introduce myself to yall i guess. I just picked up BBCS about a week ago and I love the game. I went through nearly the whole cast just seeing what they can do and how they play etc and I ended up deciding on Ragna for my main, and Mu for my alt. i can do a few of his combos, but im having trouble with one in particular:

5B, 6A, j.C, j.D, jump cancel, j.C, BEdge, 6D, j.D, jump cancel, j.C, BEdge > etc.

i can do everything up until the second j.D > jump cancel, j.C xx BEdge. I land the j.D and jump cancel, but i cant seem to be able to land the following j.C. the training dummy always techs out RIGHT before i hit him. any advice ? is it just a matter of me doing it faster / messing with timings ?

also, i have a question about approaching overall. how do yall go about approaching with Ragna ? dash 5B ? dash 5A / 6A ? j.B ? 214A ?

Like i said, im very new to this game, but ive been playing competitive fighters for the past 5 years or so (CvS2, 3s, A3, a little MvC2, SSF4). I dont have any problem with execution in street fighter games at all. I can piano hands fine with Gen, I can easily do all of Viper's shenanigans. Im very confident in my execution when it comes to a street fighter type game, but this doesnt feel like street fighter execution at all. it feels like its a LOT more spacing / timing strict.

Any tips, whether its for BB in general, or Ragna specific, would be helpful and much appreciated. Thank yall for reading this wall of text <3

[advancedNoob]

BBCS execution is different from SF and much easier, and frankly much better. Unlike SF, in BBCS you buffer your combos. That combo that wiffs, i think you aren't supposed to do jD after 6D, it should go like 6D jump cancel JC BE.

5B is a great approach tool, definitely Ragna's best one. It has range and good follow up options on both, block and hit. Watch some Kaqn's Ragna matches, the way he applies pressure is insane, good reference player.

[Legend Of K1]

thanks for the quick response, ill try out the combo as you mentioned it, and thanks for the Kaqn suggestion, ill definitely look into it.

Edit: Just tried the combo the way you had told me to, didnt work for me. hes still teching right as i should be hitting him. when i do 6A, 6D, JC, j.C, B Edge, it works fine. I dont know whats wrong with me =/

Edited November 30, 2010 by Legend Of K1

[StarryShade]

stop jump canceling after 6D. think of it more as 6DD press D twice then jump cancel for j.C Berial > ender, also there is no 6A before 6DD

[Legend Of K1]

I know there is no 6A before the 6D, i was just seeing if i could do it by doing a simple launcher into 6DD, JC, j.C xx Berial. I can do that fine, but if i try and do the whole combo, i have a problem for some reason. like i said in my first post, after the first berial, i relaunch with 6DD, but at that point, when i try to jump cancel into j.C xx Berial, my j.C misses because hes able to tech JUST when i should be hitting him.

On a slightly different note, can someone list the combos / BnB's that are most practical in a match / most important to have down. I have already looked at the CS combo thread, but all it says is basically " go do challenge mode". Im not talking about the small combos like 5B, 5C, 214A, 214D. I know that much -_-. please someone come to my aid =/

regardless if anyone decides to post them or not, i appreciate yall at least reading this.

[KayEff]

For the 5B > 6A blah blah combo, it's either one of two things:

1. You're not doing j.C quickly enough. You can help your execution by doing what's called "advanced input," which basically is holding down the button. Doing so will repeat the attacks for 5 frames, making 1 or 2 frame links really easy.

2. The combo's invalid in the first place. I highly doubt this is it though, the proration's only at 19% (I think), meaning only a 5 frame tech loss. That's still not enough for the opponent to tech out of j.C.

As for BnBs, these will help you:

5B > 3C > 5D > dash 6A (replace 5D > dash 6A with 2B > 5C if the opponent is far away) > hjc j.C > j.D > jc j.C > BE > 6D > j.D > jc j.C > BE > dash 5D > 22C

Does about 4k.

6B > 2C > 6C > dash 5D > dash 6A > hjc j.C > jc j.C > BE > 6D > j.D > jc j.C > BE > dash 5D > 623D > 236C > 214D

I think this does around 3.8k, not too sure.

GH > (near max delay) GH followup > dash 5B > 5D > dash > jump j.B > j.C > jc j.C > BE > 6D > j.D > jc j.C > BE > dash 5D > 623D > 236C > 214D

3.8k again maybe.

All of these only work in the corner, unless you add a dash to your 6D (but it's kind of hard to execute). You can always replace everything after the first BE with 3C > 5D(1) > 214A > 214D for good oki, or 5D > 22C if 22C is available.

[Legend Of K1]

thanks a lot for the post Kayeff. im still trying for the second BE, but i cant get it still. here, maybe if i list the whole combo that im doing it might help:

(5A), 5B, 6A, j.C, j.D, jc j.C, BE, 6D, j.D, jc j.C, BE > whatever

^ <-- thats where im having the problem. the j.C never hits them for some reason =/ the are able to tech out as soon as i should be hitting them. I had a friend tell me that i need to do dash 6D to relaunch so im closer to the opponent. when i was trying that, the dash 6D wouldnt hit. Im hopeless =( any other advice or suggestions ? btw, i really appreciate the responses so far

[FlyingVe]

Well, you need to do the jC almost immediately after the jump cancel after 6DD. The rhythm is definitely different then when doing Ragna's normal air combo. It threw me when I was learning the double BE for the first time too.

Also, doing a short dash will definitely help midscreen, though I prefer to do an oki ender if I'm midscreen and haven't landed a 3C.

Edit: I would also learn the BnB (5B>(stuff)>5D>(DC)>6A/5C/jB>air combo>BE>6DD>jC>BE>...) it does more damage and is easy to land

Edited November 30, 2010 by FlyingVe

[Legend Of K1]

Finally got that stupid combo down -_- you really do have to hit the jc j.C pretty quick. now im having a little bit of trouble with this one:

5B, 6A, j.C, j.D, jc j.C, B Edge, dash 5D, dash cancel 6A > air combo.

Im having trouble landing the dash cancel 6A. I can do it normally ( ex: 5D, dash cancel 6A > blah blah). I have a friend who told me its not possible because B Edge prorates it or something (i still dont quite understand the whole prorating thing and how it effects combos). Is it just another matter of timing it correctly ? is it possible ?

on another note, THE RAGNA BOARDS ARE AMAZING. thank god this isnt like SRK where there are tons of kids who think theyre amazing and act like assholes, then get put on blast and try to pull some excuse out of their ass. Yall have been incredibly helpful so far. I really appreciate it

[skd]

Finally got that stupid combo down -_- you really do have to hit the jc j.C pretty quick. now im having a little bit of trouble with this one:

5B, 6A, j.C, j.D, jc j.C, B Edge, dash 5D, dash cancel 6A > air combo.

Im having trouble landing the dash cancel 6A. I can do it normally ( ex: 5D, dash cancel 6A > blah blah). I have a friend who told me its not possible because B Edge prorates it or something (i still dont quite understand the whole prorating thing and how it effects combos). Is it just another matter of timing it correctly ? is it possible ?

on another note, THE RAGNA BOARDS ARE AMAZING. thank god this isnt like SRK where there are tons of kids who think theyre amazing and act like assholes, then get put on blast and try to pull some excuse out of their ass. Yall have been incredibly helpful so far. I really appreciate it

That combo will not work, the proration is too high (attacks will stop connecting)

[StarryShade]

I always found the 6A hjc j.D jc j.C BE relaunch easier to do than the 6A one, plus it's doable midscreen, and heck it might even give more heat.

EDIT: I MEANT 6DD GOSH I'M AN IDIOT

Edited December 1, 2010 by StarryShade

[Arvoyea]

I prefer 5B -> 3C ->5d -> dash cancel->5C into J.C ->J.D->J.C instead of 6A. Dunno why, I just feel awesome doing that, lol. No problem, Legend. Everyone here just wants to help each other get better. Also, I need help practicing hitconfirm and being able to transfer from basic Bnbs to harder combos in matches instead of always going for the kill. Any advice?

[StarryShade]

Hitconfirm is giving yourself extra time to think, to notice whether an attack has connected or not. You should almost never dash up and do 5B 3C. I always dash 2A 5B 2B 3C because I have more time to notice if my attacks have connected.. And hitconfirming isn't just sticking more moves in. And the 2B 5C pickup helps with that alot because 5D is ass on block so you don't wanna do it as part of a blockstring. so if you notice 3C has connected I usually do 2B 5C > stuff > BE 6A hjc j.D jc j.C BE > stuff.

[KayEff]

5B > 5D is a decent hitconfirm that can lead to good damage. If they block 5B, you can cancel 5D's first hit into Dead Spike. It has a large hole, but most people are too scared to attack after it.

Just make sure you don't do 5D(1) > DS as a blockstring a lot. People will start looking out for it if you do.

But if they happen to block 5B and happen to not block 5D then I dunno what you can do from there.

[WolfCrimson]

Hey guys has 5D 1st hit dash cancel (on block) ever been discussed here? Because I think it's AMAZING for blockstrings, so goddamn invisible, so much potential. It's pretty hard to time, but it's when Ragna starts to swing his sword down for the 2nd hit, you dash. Opponents will be expecting the hit, but you run up to them, and WOOSH grab/whatever.

[KayEff]

Dash after 5D's first hit is not only hard to execute, but it's pretty unsafe. Sure, it may be under the radar when it's done, but most people will counter it.

[WolfCrimson]

No they won't. That's the thing. Most people expect the second hit, so they won't mash out (because it'd hit them if they do) but you dash, and they realise that you dashed by the time the dash is over, where you are already out of the dash's recovery. It's not something you use consistently, just something to vary up your blockstrings so that the opponent can't get a read on you. Edited December 1, 2010 by WolfCrimson

[FlyingVe]

If memory serves Dash Canceling the first hit of 5D leaves you at -20. That's DP levels of recovery and I would never choose to mixup with that kind of disadvantage more than once in a blue moon.

You have other options, like 5D(1)>DS which leaves you at +5, which lets you try all kinds of things.

Edited December 1, 2010 by FlyingVe

[WolfCrimson]

There's more to fighting games than frame data, as I'm sure you know. I've already said it in my previous post, but I don't mind repeating: it's just something to vary your mix-up.

[Yggjrasil]

Dash after 5D's first hit is not only hard to execute, but it's pretty unsafe. Sure, it may be under the radar when it's done, but most people will counter it.

This has been true since CT. I'd always get my shit rocked after trying to DC 5D's 1st hit, I try hard not to do it UNLESS, my opponent is too locked down on blocking, doesn't have 50%, or doesn't have a reversal.

There's more to fighting games than frame data, as I'm sure you know. I've already said it in my previous post, but I don't mind repeating: it's just something to vary your mix-up.

If you're feeling extra risky then go for it,All power to you if that actually helps. but I dare you to do that against a Hazama with 50%-100%, or Tager with 50%. If they IB 5D(1) which most people I face do, your ass is grass.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Yggjrasil

[FlyingVe]

This has been true since CT. I'd always get my shit rocked after trying to DC 5D's 1st hit, I try hard not to do it UNLESS, my opponent is too locked down on blocking, doesn't have 50%, or doesn't have a reversal.

Or an opponent that doesn't have a button. You can smash your face against the controller and counter it. Literally, you'll have enough time for you face to impact the stick, and for the move to come out.

It might be good once in a while to catch somebody sleeping, but you can't rely on the opponent falling asleep, or being distracted with futurama to land hits. Focus on real mixup over bad gimmicks.

[Yggjrasil]

Sure, gimmicks like that work online because 80% of people on ranked are stupid, yes I went there and I'm not taking it back either. Like what ZONG_one says "I bet that shit won't work offline." Turst me on this, silly gimmicks are fine once in a while but relying on them solely will cost you more pain than pleasure.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Yggjrasil