BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Nice, do they still have the height dependent j.D charge rates? It still seems to charge very quickly close to the ground but it doesn't seem to charge as slow high up as it once did it feels like?
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Yeah. I'll figure out the height dependent stuff later. Here are some more notes. 22B is not positive on block, but 22 is 0 on block. 22 actually doesn't push back that far. You will be close enough to land 5A without dashing after 6C > 22 on certain characters, but 5C is what should be used for consistency. 236D confirmed for +2 on block. 22D is also +2 on block and does not push back nearly as far as 236D. Followup 22D is negative on block, probably the same value as uncharged 22B. 22[D] is +6 on block instead of +8, but it pushes back a ton. Followup 22[D] is 0 on block just like fully charged 22. 421D > 236D is +6 on block like before, but it pushes back on block like mad. I can see myself using charges in pressure and neutral a lot more now, especially now that charge acceleration is confirmed.
Kiba Posted April 24, 2015 Author Posted April 24, 2015 A lot of good information being passed around here. Good stuff guys. As usual with the new iteration I bring you further future updates: -A new strategy guide will be made further down the line. A huge chunk of the information regarding pressure for example will remain (Although please note that I feel that OD raid will have an impact on our pressure), but her combo theory and her gimmicks have changed. I'm probably going to make a new one rather than editing the current thread. There will be some new stuff in that too so stay tuned. -Archived 1.1 threads. If you do not have access to CPE I will provide a link in the new threads to the old. As usual any questions or comments please feel free to shoot. Enjoy CPE Tsubaki.
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I'm already in the process of coming up with gimmicks. 236C is really really fun. Overall, Tsubaki feels much more restricted, but things are still looking up.
BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Speaking of 236C, it presents what's most likely the easiest opportunity to use 2BB crossunder shenanigans When you're confirming hits off of 2A/5A that can't get much damage, opt instead for something like this- 2A > 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236C -> -> Dash 2(B)B (Cross under) > 5CC > 623C > j.236(A) etc etc. And yes, you can combo 236236D after 236C but you have to be quick about it. Gimmicks aside, 236C biggest boon is that it just gives you total control on side switching as you can opt to end many combos with 236C > 214B > 22B to change sides instead of typical air enders and this is something I would suggest on scenarios where you can either get out of the corner or keep them in it. Oh and do note that thanks to the change to untechable time to 2C/2CC, Corner 2C > j.236A oki ender is no longer viable in most cases it seems but you can still 2C > 7j.C > j.236A if you jump backwards but it's obviously not as good for the placement of the orb/tech time and position.
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Speaking of 236C, it presents what's most likely the easiest opportunity to use 2BB crossunder shenanigans When you're confirming hits off of 2A/5A that can't get much damage, opt instead for something like this- Oh and do note that thanks to the change to untechable time to 2C/2CC, Corner 2C > j.236A oki ender is no longer viable in most cases it seems but you can still 2C > 7j.C > j.236A if you jump backwards but it's obviously not as good for the placement of the orb/tech time and position. I am having fun trying to hit a 236C at the max possible height so that when they fall you have enough time to super jump over the opponent and land a crossup j.C. It isn't a meaty, so far at least, but it is confusing as hell since you sideswitch twice. Only works on neutral tech, but that is like everything else so welp. I am experimenting with charge required oki right now. Somewhat successful using a couple techniques I was trying out last week in 1.1 since they still work.
BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I'm looking into some possible ways to set up for safe jumps and other useful option selects as well- who has the fastest DP to test this stuff with? Kagura?
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Ragna. Kagura's DP got nerfed. Try doing 2C > late jump cancel j.C after 214B on a juggled opponent. It should work. You sacrifice a bit of damage, though.
BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Ragna's DP was what I was using to test my previous safe jump setups and found out that it was nerfed and was on the slower side, is it faster now?
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Hmm, well I don't know who else's is faster (besides maybe Tsubaki's).
BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 The j.236A(w) is cool but I'm still having issues getting it consistently. On the other hand, I haven't encountered a situation yet where j.214A/B/C(w) won't work instead, and I can pull that off much more consistently. That method won't work in the corner as j.214A will hit the enemy, the j.236(A) whiff is a bit weird when you just start to use it but the timing really isn't too hard, I recommend just biting the bullet and learning it instead.
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 So far j.214B has worked in nearly all the places j.214A would have worked. Is there a reason why j.214A is used over it? I don't notice that much of a difference in its recovery versus j.214A's and I am able to catch rolls and whatnot just fine out of it. Both of them leave you directly in front of the opponent now, but j.214B gets you more corner carry and a tiny bit more damage. I can still set up air spacing in combos to get j.214C to end with me behind the opponent on knockdown if the combo timer isn't about to expire which is fun. Trying to also figure out what the applications of j.236A > j.214X is just in general as well aside from a point to RC out of to go into 6C.
Errol Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Yeah. I'll figure out the height dependent stuff later. Here are some more notes. 22B is not positive on block, but 22 is 0 on block. 22 actually doesn't push back that far. You will be close enough to land 5A without dashing after 6C > 22 on certain characters, but 5C is what should be used for consistency. 236D confirmed for +2 on block. 22D is also +2 on block and does not push back nearly as far as 236D. Followup 22D is negative on block, probably the same value as uncharged 22B. 22[D] is +6 on block instead of +8, but it pushes back a ton. Followup 22[D] is 0 on block just like fully charged 22. 421D > 236D is +6 on block like before, but it pushes back on block like mad. I can see myself using charges in pressure and neutral a lot more now, especially now that charge acceleration is confirmed. I think this is all correct from my testing. Also 5A2A are definitely higher level 214D is body invuln on frame 6.
BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I thought j.214A ender was because it had a very slightly quicker recovery time compared to the opponent than j.214B/C? Or at least that's how it feels like.
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 All of them feel like they have much much lower recovery compared to 1.1. Also j.214C makes you slide across the ground when you land and lets you fly away for free. I think this is all correct from my testing. Also 5A2A are definitely higher level 214D is body invuln on frame 6. Thanks for double checking. I am trying to figure out what in the hell they expect you to do after a 236D counterhit since it makes it actually more difficult to land 5C. The new 22B counterhit also sucks.
Zouf Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 You did Challenge #20? I spent about 10 minutes on it but I can't be bothered to finish that one off. Hmm nope, spent 1 hour or so trying to do it and couldn't find any combo that goes up to 15 charges used (reached 13 only)
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 It used to OTG? I don't remember that. You can pick people up after the Crush Trigger bounce still. 236D is prety difficult to follow up on larger characters. Azrael, Hakumen, and Tager just end up really damn far from the position 236D's recovery leaves you and following up with a dashing 5C is hard as hell. There is the 5B > sj.B route but that does significantly less damage and these three characters in particular have the highest health in the game.
Zouf Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Hmm is it me or 214D has become an S starter? The combo behind it is pretty bad.
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Yes it is. I think they did that because of the beefed up invuln that happens earlier in the startup as Errol said. Still doesn't have head invuln so meh.
BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Hmm, looks like 5C doesn't OTG anymore :/ The second hit of 5CC is the hit that OTGs and still does. Hmm is it me or 214D has become an S starter? The combo behind it is pretty bad. I stopped using 214D as a way to stuff moves so much after projectiles started getting a additional properties. Now it doesn't even go further using 236X > 214D and doesn't go as far autocorrecting as well so it's become even less useful as a standard move. As far as a combo goes, you can go with a standard 214D > 5C > 2C > 214B > 623C > j.236(A) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214A for 2.8k or so for a easy BnB.
BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 236D is prety difficult to follow up on larger characters. Azrael, Hakumen, and Tager just end up really damn far from the position 236D's recovery leaves you and following up with a dashing 5C is hard as hell. There is the 5B > sj.B route but that does significantly less damage and these three characters in particular have the highest health in the game. Typical Tsubaki character specific nonsense. Use 5B > 2C to pick up instead of 5C > 2C on those characters, it's much easier to connect and the damage is fairly close.
Zouf Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Hmm yeah 5C was used to pick up after 22 or 22[D] in corner but i guess that's not really an OTG in this case.
chzchan Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Typical Tsubaki character specific nonsense. Use 5B > 2C to pick up instead of 5C > 2C on those characters, it's much easier to connect and the damage is fairly close. 5B2C is unstable as hell. I guess it is better to at least try.
BatousaiJ Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 5B2C is unstable as hell. I guess it is better to at least try. After doing some testing, Hakumen is fine with 5B > 2C. Tager and Az are both fine as well. Makoto is the real nightmare when it comes to hitboxes and neither one will work off a standard 236D, better use that terribly 5B > j.BC > j.BCC > j.214A ender for her.
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