Errol Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 it's not every normal, it's low level normals that lost untech time. specifically level 0 and level 1 moves both got cut to untech time of 10 or 12 I think. In Cp1 they both had 14 frames of untech time which was a buff from CSEX, where lvl 0 had, again, 10 or 12. Don't remember the numbers exactly.
chzchan Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Has it always been possible to do Air Grab into Crush Trigger?
BatousaiJ Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 I think so? Either that or we did 6C > CT stuff that I can vaguely remember.
chzchan Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Alright. I just accidentally CT'd after an air throw into 3.8k midscreen and it was really surprising.
chzchan Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 214D > jcc22[D] Happened to spot Kinpika and Pikuri talking about going from 214D into a non-followup version of 22[D] midscreen by jump cancel canceling just like what is done with the 214D > CT stuff. Tried it out.
Airk Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 214D > jcc22[D] Happened to spot Kinpika and Pikuri talking about going from 214D into a non-followup version of 22[D] midscreen by jump cancel canceling just like what is done with the 214D > CT stuff. Tried it out. I want to go on the record as saying that it's super stupid that we have to/want to do this instead of just using the followup version of 22D. Yay for unnecessary execution difficulty.
TheGreatReptar Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I'm actually sad this doesn't any benefit in the corner. It's not even hard (and I feel it's really obvious that it wasn't intended)
BatousaiJ Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I was practicing some combos last night and discovered the way buffering works in this iteration, mashing hurts your inputs quite a bit, especially when IAD is considered. It's naturally for me to press 6CC a few times without thinking, because why not and their start buffering 9>6 to get the IAD j.CC continuation but I noticed that there were many times where I would remain grounded or I would get a standard 9 without the IAD and was trying to wrap my brain around why this was happening since my IAD buffering techniques have always been the same. After a bunch of experimentation , it turns out that inputting extra Cs for 6CC was having a major negative effect and eating up my IAD buffering in turn and when I began inputting 6CC precisely, my IAD came out basically every single time. An odd little thing but with that knowledge, I won't mash inputs for combos and go for specific timing instead, even when I don't really have to. This of course can work again me in netplay with input lag and everything considered but well, that's netplay. Also, in matches I noticed a bit of an inconsistency with one of the simple corner combo routes. 5BB > 5CC > 236D > 22D > CT > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214A Try that combo a few times(make sure to keep track of hits and you might notice that sometimes the combo will drop at 2CC from time to time. I thought at first it was a matter of how many hits you get in on 6CC before you go into 214B and while this is true in some sense as if you opt for one less hit of 6CC, this combo will basically work everytime, it seems there's another factor involved, combo time. I remember from one of our previous discussion that if a combo lasts a certain amount of time, it will mess with proration and it feels like that's the issue here. When I do that whole combo quickly, it seems to work but when I add delays to hits like CT, 6CC, 214B and 5C > 2CC pick up(lots of places to add slight delay), the combo will drop unexpectedly. The "combo time" is something I've heard of before but I haven't actually seen it in practice before so I'm curious as to whether or not this is indeed a case of it so do try the combo out yourself and report if you find something different.
Errol Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 combo time is definitely a thing. the combo system in general can feel pretty similar to old games, combos off 5bb5cc don't work because there's 4 hits there rather than the 4 hits prorating the combo... If you're playing in a normal match and you're staggering you're 5BB5CC you'll probably find that the combo doesn't work for you at all either. So there's a bit of an advantage to fast combo parts. Fundamentally, I think 6CC>214B>5C>2CC~ works, but it feels to me like the window is pretty small. If you can't do 6CC>IAD, then you're probably better off doing 6C>214B instead of hoping you're in the window where 6CC>214B>5C>2CC works, overall. I'll have to play around with the mashing thing. I have a feeling that it is just that since you're pressing a lot of buttons you're getting ahead of yourself with the IAD input. when you mash stuff out a lot, and then have to do cancels, there's a pretty big gap between your last normal input and when you need to do the next input... That's my feeling anyway, I feel it more with old dp whiff combos.
BatousaiJ Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC is fine, the window is long enough to consider it on the easier size as long as you know that you shouldn't be adding needless delay in the other timings.
chzchan Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I haven't been feeling that concerning buffering inputs. I have been feeling it when I do a combo slightly slower since it makes the 2CC > sj.C drop sometimes. I do my IADs the cheating way, so I definitely know that the buffering doesn't do anything. I do 4123696 to do an IAD which makes me super jump as well instead of doing a real IAD with 96.
BatousaiJ Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Hey, whatever works. I've been practicing the way I do my IAD since CS2 days so I must've done it easily tens of thousands of times already.
Errol Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I'm just saying i've run across enough combos where 6CC>214B>5C>2CC doesn't work that I'm not too sure about it overall, if you aren't doing it off a specific confirm in training mode. I very frequently stagger my strings, and if a very slight delay breaks it plus at the end of a combo I have to remember if I had any delays in the first few hits. Well, you get the point. Throw>22B>6CC>214B is a bust, but that's pretty easy to remember. I have a question for reptar. If you do JBJCC>2C>214B>2C, is the height guaranteed for extra tech time? And I guess that is for sure corner only.
TheGreatReptar Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 Actually, the only corner variation that doesn't work midscreen is the j.236A ender. It definitely doesn't get full untech all the time, and there seems to be some character specific nonsense too. Gotta look into it more. It also seems like if 2C>236B works, you'll get max untech, but if they're too low they hit the ground and 236B doesn't combo and in situations where 236B doesn't combo, 236A would get max untech. It's silliness
chzchan Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 Starting to get angry that people bursting right during the 623C > j.236A(dw) part of the combo doesn't send Tsubaki flying back because of 623C's invuln and instead sits me right behind the opponent that will recover before I will. It has started happening fairly often now since the DP whiff route is just core to combos now.
Daedron Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 That has happened since CS2, though so far I have yet to not get blown back by the burst despite them bursting during the DP. I suppose they have to burst a bit before the DP comes out to make it whiff completely. It's something to look out for in any case.
chzchan Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 I started in CSE and at that time I didn't even know about DP whiff routes because it was my first time playing fighting games. I guess I've just been unlucky lately. Ah well. Oh another thing I have been noticing is that more often than not when I do the 2BB cross under, the followup hit will not autocorrect and you will do it in the direction you were facing before crossing under even though the opponent is behind you. I don't know what is causing this because I could mash on 2BB as much as I wanted back in 1.1 and it would autocorrect 100% of the time. It doesn't really matter too much since I usually just do 2B > Command Grab because of the perfect spacing, but it was just something that has been bothering me along with the burst punishing shenanigans.
BatousaiJ Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 So, I've noticed I wasn't really doing a good job of taking advantage when my opponent spends all of his barrier bar. I only know of CT guard break which seemed easy enough to set up for when they have no barrier with 6C > CT. What are Tsu's air unblockables(sans barrier)?
chzchan Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 All of her normals that aren't 5A/2A. Also the 214X series happens to be air unblockable. I used to use a gimmick with 6C before that took huge advantage of people not using barrier in the air but it no longer works. Also 6C rips and tears through barrier. Sucks that it is no longer jump cancellable on block. One of the best places to set up a CT reset during a combo is after 6B during a combo out of 6A because 6B moves you forward and has 19+2 frames of hitstun which means the opponent will have 9 frames to react to the 30 frame startup crush trigger when they come out of the 21 frames of crouching hitstun they'll be in while you cancel into CT.
BatousaiJ Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 You can still use 6C > 421A on block to cover yourself mostly. They'd have to be mashing pretty hard to punish that and if they get really cheeky trying to mash dp or jab in between 6C > whatever, you can just 6CC for a CH and it'll lead to a full IAD combo. Just know if they block 6CC you're kind of a sitting duck, even if you have charges so probably only go for that route when you're sure you've got them trained properly or have meter to RC if it doesn't work. I'll try the 6B route with CT for reset sake to see if it's worthwhile.
Errol Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 6C>CT is a little bit telegraphed. Against characters with a dp, I think you are largely guaranteed to be punished if they are paying attention (Depends on the DP, of course). A great thing you can do when they have blown their barrier is command grab. You don't have to wait to recover and dash command grab or anything in this case - you 5a and direct cancel to command grab and fuck em up. If they're in danger they should take 4k damage from a 75 heat combo.
BatousaiJ Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Command grabbing is pretty useful whether they have barrier or not so when they're without barrier I would probably try for the more higher gain like CT guard break. A standard combo with 1 charge even mid screen after guard break for Tsu is around 4k~ which is pretty nice. I'm also fiddling around with some resets in the air that punish non barrier blocking for scenarios when they opt not to or can't because they're out of barrier meter. Speaking of command grabs, what are some of you guy's favorite times to command grab? Two of mine are corner 5B > IAD j.B© > command grab and j.214A ender > 5D > command grab.
chzchan Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 After a 2B cross under on the opponent's neutral wakeup. Delayed after 5BB if the opponent doesn't barrier. My absolute favorite is after a 2D charge cancel of 5C because it just works and I don't know why. In general, using 2D instead of 5D as a charge cancel just makes command grabbing work more often for me.
BatousaiJ Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 The 2B cross under command grab is one of those setups I had in my CP video but I've found these days people aren't blocking the right direction to begin with so I end up just going with 2BB to get the hit in. 5C > 2D > dash command grab? Humm, not sure why that would work more than any charge cancel setup so that's a bit weird.
chzchan Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Misleading visual cue stuff is my reasoning sort of. It's like doing 2D makes people think they won't get command grabbed. I truly don't know why.
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