Harukasan Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 I get the feeling that ArcSys doesn't know what they want this character to be, most changes he gets don't necessarily hurt or benefit him in any great way. All they do is mildly change how he has to do the same thing he's always been doing. Except when they do shit like take away 6A gatlings and make 5DC 2DA not work well midscreen. Then it's clear they're takin the piss.
Maadhum Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Hey guys, I'm really digging 2.0 Kagura. What do you guys think of him so far? Slightly worse? He lost his really solid corner oki with 46B but gained some slightly better midscreen combos. I think midscreen OD combos are going to be much weaker now with the 46B change but I havent seen any good usage of OD in 2.0 so I could be wrong. I get the feeling that ArcSys doesn't know what they want this character to be, most changes he gets don't necessarily hurt or benefit him in any great way. All they do is mildly change how he has to do the same thing he's always been doing. Except when they do shit like take away 6A gatlings and make 5DC 2DA not work well midscreen. Then it's clear they're takin the piss. The 6A change would at least make sense if they didn't butcher 2DA as well. They really just don't want Kagura doing overheads. The changes overall though seem really weak and uninteresting, I imagine we'll have to wait until the next iteration to get changes that aren't slightly reduced recovery on some normals or pointless alterations to some specials/stance moves.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 I imagine they just want Kagura to be the "Shit out big damage" guy, and not much else. They could have improved his neutral game at the very least, but lolArc balance.
BFM Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Outside of losing his great oki I really don't see any major changes. 28C replaced B orb in corner combos so that's "okey" I guess. Personally I really don't like what they do with effects of moves like 2DA bounce or 6C counter hit ( it looks shitty ), it's like how they changed his grab from 1.0 to 1.1 - it was unnecessary and looks kinda awkward.
FatalCounter Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 His 6A gatling removal was a really bad decision. For combos, he is quite the same. B orb seems to comes out faster and travels which is kinda bad. I don't know why they reduced the size of B orb when it comes out, it was a good OTG move for most of the chars trying to roll out. His + changes are Mid screen combos, Ability to cancel drives into CT, OD and C super and barrier block. 3C recovers faster, 5C seems to have a better hitbox, CH 6C is easy to pick up, B DP kinda recovers faster, fast startup and push the opponent far away. but less damaging. OD combos are way easier and faster with 6DC not have SMP anymore + his slide effect. Oh and his run speed is kinda faster on startup. His - changes. 2DA get nerfed for combos but buffed in recovery a bit. 6DC push block have been reduced which makes it risky close. C DP seems to have a slow startup and can be punished even on air block!!!! I am so mad it loses vs Tager super armor super now but, it can have more invincibility frames. I like it to catch Rachel or Amane floating in the air.
Angry Guy of DE Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Chzchan noticed it in a video but Stance 6C seems to have projectile guardpoint properties instead of super armor. Checking other matches Kagura doesn't seem to take damage while going through projectiles (Hazama Chains and Kagura orbs), I don't know what limits they have as far as damage capacity as vanilla Stance 6C had no limit of armor while 1.1 had a limit of 1.5K health armor. With the improved run speed Kagura players will now likely opt to IB strings more and be able to micro dash 5A, 2A, and 5B with added range to start his own pressure. Confirming crouched opponent combos are more valuable mid-screen as Stance 2C into Stance 6A combos on a crouching opponent since Stance 2C puts them in a spinning state now.
o Nereus o Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 What's going on everyone? Just a fellow Terumi main checking out the Kagura forums lol. 2.0 Kagura seems really fun to use so i was going to ask... what BnB's i should be working on for him that will still probably work in 2.0?
Angry Guy of DE Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Not as far as I know, but 5B has only 8 frames of start-up and has comparable range to both 5A and 2A. Each normal has a good use when you look at it: 5A : 5 Frame Start-up, even on block, Will whiff on most crouchers. Able to gatling into 6A 2A: 7 Frame Start-up, -1 on block, can confirm into itself, Able to gatling into 6A 5B: 8 Frame, even on block, hits low, On hit allows good combo into Stance 2B with orb oki. Even max range 5B still allows the optimum midscreen starter into orb oki. I don't mention 2B simply because it has a start-up of 12 frames so even with IB people can jump away or even mash 2A unless they are very much negative after a move.
FatalCounter Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 @Angryguy, Just want to ask why do you always write Stance 2A or 2C, it is painful to understand and misunderstanding. For example: Stance 2A seems like you press D and then 2A which = 5DA. 2 Stance A could have made sense but 2DA or 2D-A is way simple to understand. Nothing against you but a guy I know is a new Kagura player got confused by your notation. Just saying.
FatalCounter Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 What's going on everyone? Just a fellow Terumi main checking out the Kagura forums lol. 2.0 Kagura seems really fun to use so i was going to ask... what BnB's i should be working on for him that will still probably work in 2.0? Almost all his midscreen combos still work except the fact that 3C > 6DC > 2DC will connect midscreen in 2.0 for more damage. He got a new midscreen combo route that only works on crouching opponents. His corner combos are quite different in 2.0, well if you want big damage, they need 28C, so in order to perform them in 2.0 just learn to do his Flash sword quickly. You can read the notes Seo posted on this section's first page if you want to know most of his changes.
Angry Guy of DE Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I refer to it as "Stance" since it happened often when trying to explain it to a person face to face and people getting confused when they didn't know how his drive worked. If it causes confusion here I'll make a point to just explain it as 5DA and so on. One thing I'm noticing in videos is how the wall stick and potential combo follow-up of 2C is dependent on how high the stick is applied. Probably spacing will be needed to know what moves in a corner combo will do it high enough. It also doesn't help in most videos that Japanese Kagura players mess up oki by not delaying the orb now...now that I think about it there really weren't many good Japanese Kagura in 1.1 ...
Skye Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I asked about his 5b because I'm seeing the midscreen a orb > confirm with a lot more consistency. It's like the thigh area has a better hitbox.
FatalCounter Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I asked about his 5b because I'm seeing the midscreen a orb > confirm with a lot more consistency. It's like the thigh area has a better hitbox. You are right but it is not 5B, it is the A orb untechable time. Now your opponent can't air tech in those midscreen combos, instead he will touch the ground. Just test yourself at home and watch the video, you will get what I am saying.
-Seo Posted October 23, 2014 Author Posted October 23, 2014 I asked about his 5b because I'm seeing the midscreen a orb > confirm with a lot more consistency. It's like the thigh area has a better hitbox. 2DC>5DA>[4]6A>5B>3C seems to no longer need a delay between 5DA>[4]6A, so it's entirely possible that the hitbox has been improved.
FatalCounter Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Yes but if he does not hit, you will see the opponent fall to the ground,which don't normally happen in 1.1
Skye Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Either way I like it, I plan on switching to Kagura in 2.0, I'm not too versed in him as a character quite yet, but I've always been interested in his play style, and seeing how Arakune is looking mad rip imo, what better time than now amirite?
LightSpdAeon Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Having used Kagura since 1.0, them changing his playstyle again is just, aggravating to say the least. I'm done. Looking forward to GG, because i'll be playing that, p4au, and uniel2 (when it comes out, ofc). Peace BB, see you in the next iteration.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Having used Kagura since 1.0, them changing his playstyle again is just, aggravating to say the least. I'm done. Looking forward to GG, because i'll be playing that, p4au, and uniel2 (when it comes out, ofc). Peace BB, see you in the next iteration. Except he plays damn near the same :V
Skye Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Different combo routes =/= different play style Support your games now don't wait til later.
o Nereus o Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 So with the [4]6B change... does that mean certain corner combos don't work anymore?
NecroTheReaper Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Pretty much. [2]8C seems to have become the new [4]6B for combo extensions. Still sad for oki, cuz while I used A orb oki frequently, I don't quite know what I was actually accomplishing with it lol
Angry Guy of DE Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Pretty much [4]6B is no longer used in combos since the changes in 2.0 make it useless in the corner. As far as integrating [2]8C in corner combos the charge should be able to be done during... 6DC and just slide to 3 to have a down charge started. Of course this is all theory since we can only watch videos. A orb oki will still be strong depending on the match up, I think the timing will change or we should try to catch people trying to roll out more often with... 6DA. Or something.
o Nereus o Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Pretty much [4]6B is no longer used in combos since the changes in 2.0 make it useless in the corner. As far as integrating [2]8C in corner combos the charge should be able to be done during... 6DC and just slide to 3 to have a down charge started. Of course this is all theory since we can only watch videos. A orb oki will still be strong depending on the match up, I think the timing will change or we should try to catch people trying to roll out more often with... 6DA. Or something. It should also work when doing 2DC as well. Correct me if im wrong on that :/
Raptor Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Can we now add that CH 6C wallbounces in corner?
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