[CPEX] Kagura Mutsuki Gameplay Discussion

[-Seo]

"- You can use Barrier during Stance Cancel"

 

Thats....interesting

 

I'm not sure what they mean by this one, because I'm pretty sure you can barrier guard during stance cancel already.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Well the updated notes confirmed what I was afraid of with Stance 2A causing a bounce.  His oki will get weaker since the [4]6B oki after Stance 2A effectively forced people to block.  Stance 6A not hitting after Stance 2A I expected as well...though Stance 6A being slower doesn't help either.  As for some of these other notes...
 

• Stance 5A guard-point seemingly improved bothers me quit a bit.  Outside of characters with dp's most characters can't risk throwing out normal against it when you choose to end strings, the idea that it can beat ID seems absurd to me. 
•  
• Canceling stance moves into CT or OD.  I guess that can be useful, but I suspect that with barrier blocking most stance moves combined with the range on CT will make it whiff in most cases.  OD could be good but unless his OD combo routes have gotten better confirming from it seems strange.
•  
• Stance 6C combos into Stance 2B midscreen.  That is really nice, how it works probably is because either Stance 2B got faster or an improved hitbox. 
•  
• 5DC has decreased wall-stick.  The range on wall stick wasn't that great even now, if you were more than one or two character lengths away you probably won't get wall-stick now.
•  
• [4]6B has a changed hit motion, making 2C harder to follow up.  This probably means the opponent gets lifted up more by the hits of the fireball, delay the fireball so they are closer to ground would help with consistency?

 

 

Oki options have taken a hit as well as potential combos using Stance 2A.  Depending on how much the recovery was reduced Stance 6A could be a better tool as right now it is around -10 on block, making it very unsafe and often a free punish for most of the cast. 

I really don't like the nerf to his corner oki...

[Toushi]

The corner Oki and the 5D~C wall-stick nerfs are REALLY REALLY REALLY bad , make me want to cry.  x.x

 

Canceling stance moves into OD is cool but unnecessary.

 

" Movement speed might be faster* " - Like Unlimited Kagura ? #kappa

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Overall seems like Kagura is getting hit with the nerf stick in this update. Ah well makes it for fun and challenging in matches

[Warhound]

I'm not gonna lose hope for him. How many loketests do we have left? 2? 3? 

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

I believe the last one was on the 10th right?

[Angry Guy of DE]

Let's (hope) assume that they digest what people thought of the changes and adjust some of it.  There's still time until CP2.0 is officially released so another loke test is possible.

around 90% of the people who looked at the changes for their characters were not happy, I'm also just throwing out a number because the only people who seem to be happy are those that are going to play Celica.

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

I'm really curious as to why they eliminated 2DA>B orb link and 2DA>6DA. Those were really needed. Condsidering Kaguras neutral is really bad.

[Angry Guy of DE]

It seems like a lot of characters who had strong oki setups were weakened based on the loketest notes.

Rachel seemingly lost a lot of her oki from 3C.

Kagura feels like he got the Shadow Labrys treatment with her hard knockdown oki setups.  In P4U2 her air Guillotine (j.214A/B) does a small ground bounce that intended the opponent to be able to air-tech and not have to wake-up into her mixups via laser and other types of moves.

It feels rather unjustified what with his flash-kick becoming significantly less reliable and now his combos and oki set-ups from Stance 2A.  Honestly across the board it seems like character's combo routes are being butchered so right now at least for me CP2.0 is going to make me want to spend more time with P4U2 and Xrd.

For a character that has mostly 4-6's against most of the prominent cast, somebody REALLY didn't like that when Kagura is played correctly he can run train on somebody.  I bet it was somebody who never learned a good ground game and was mad that every full screen air dash got flash kicked on reaction...

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Pre patch Kagura was very good and could turn the tide of a fight when used effectively. 1.1 Kagura is pretty alright and can still be dangerous if used well. This 2.0 Kag is really weird considering these changes aren't final of course. I feel as if though this Kagura will be easily slaughtered. Or a lot of people just drop him in favor of the ridiculous buffed Izayoi ;P

[Toushi]

So guys, There isn't any videos yet ? 

[-Seo]

Little look at [2]8C, looks cool.

 

http://youtu.be/TAfcIr_eKcc?t=50m55s

 

B orb looks like it starts small, and grows bigger the further it travels? Gains durability rather than losing it.

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Those are weird....but the orb getting bigger the further it travels is pretty neat. But I'm assuming there's a limit for how big it grows.

[BFM]

I think it would be neat, if we could throw both types of B orb. But if it will be only that new one, then won't there be a problem with combo routes in corner ?

[-Seo]

I think it would be neat, if we could throw both types of B orb. But if it will be only that new one, then won't there be a problem with combo routes in corner ?

 

Yeah, that's my concern right now. Unless stance moves have changed a fair bit, corner combos might be pretty damn weak. Probably stuff>2DC>6DA>5DA 

[BFM]

Well, if gatling drive moves into CT is true, then there is possibility that B orb can be changet with it. But again that is not meterless option, so without CT damage can be dramatically lowered. To be honest I really don't know where they are going with this, first they took out mixup with 6A nerf, now they took out fafnir and possibly damage. It looks like they think that Kagura is too good, which is kinda bullshit.

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

I personally think the reason kagura is getting nerfed bad is because people think just can't deal with the match up...which is complete bs. So arcsys said f it let's make him bad....I can't tell u how much hate mail I get when I use him in matches. People need to adapt. Lol

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

So apparently...most of these changes are 90 percent final....and 2.0 for arcades is releasing next month...RIP Kagura...

[BFM]

If this changes are final and there won't be any new, more pleasant surprises, I'm afraid that Kagura will lose almost everything that made playing him worthwhile. I mean they butchered his oki, nerfed his other overhead and probably removed some of his corner combos ( which will in turn kill his corner damage ). They make his dash faster, but that doesn't change the fact that his neutral is garbage and now it will be even harder to win by throwing opponent into corner and finish him quickly. The only nerf that I actually understand is change to his flash kick, it was to good and everybody knew it ( beside it looks cool now ).

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Apparently the 2.0 changes reception by players has been quite negative. I mean let's hope the 10 percent of changes are good. However I feel that that the big mark able thing for 2.0 is Celica.

Celica seems to be the best character by far in 2.0.

[Angry Guy of DE]

The B orb change is awful, it will likely trade with most projectiles now unless it reaches 2/3 to full screen distance to raise its durability.

This is probably why it was said that it became hard to link 2C > 5C after B orb in the corner because the number of hits have decreased and the fact that it won't keep them in place for 2C to hit.

The flash kick change doesn't bother me as much since the B version seems to be a KoF style hop height flash kick so it should still be rather safe when air blocked.  It did seem to suffer a damage reduction, dealing about 1K or so, and likely no potential combo follow-up on CH.  The C version is now a straight up shoryuken since he goes almost vertical, damage seemed to be around 1.5K which is the current damage (or close enough).  It clearly is punishable now, but I hope it has the same start-up and not slower or else it is worse overall than most DP's in the cast.

The run speed is very nice, I think Kagura may have been the only character with an actual acceleration which made most micro-dashes pointless when you compare it to Ragna micro dash 5B or 5C.  I would've been fine with just removing the slow start but his speed looks on par with Ragna or Jin run speed.

Overall 2.0 Still looks bad since his best tool of corner hard knockdown into B orb oki to prevent delay wake-up and rolls was eliminated.  It also doesn't help that Japanese Kaguras are few in number and some of those drop basic Bnb's still. 

Honestly, who drops 5BB>3C>Stance2C>Stance5A>dl[4]6A>5B>3C>Stance2B midscreen? 

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

not to be a downer, but i play on an arcade stick and i can mess up some crucial bnbs due to my hand not reacting well. XD I assume he is much easier on pad.

[Angry Guy of DE]

I play on stick as well, that midscreen combo just comes down to understanding that you have more time than you think to wait before tossing the A orb out after Stance 5A.

The only tricky part of it is that some character hitboxes can change the timing by a little or visually appear harder to do.

 

[Toushi]

0:50

 

6D~C > 2D~B Midscreen

 

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/1410856943

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Yeah I just saw the preview. I guess that's pretty sweet...I feel like though they should have made 2D B Special cancelable. Generally in corners if you are going for an OKi u usually end it with 2D B then A orb or B Orb. However if they made it special cancelable, using a distortion after 2D B would be pretty sick!