[XRD] Sin Kiske Gameplay Discussion "Playing with Poles"

[KentoHardRok]

But the damage scaling on that combo, I'd be surprised if it did more than 100 damage. Too many, perfect example of longer combos don't necessarily mean better damage but it does make for good burst bait!

[Dreiko]

Yeah that's just there cause it's easy and ensures even Elphelt will be high enough to be hit by air driver. It's not something I actually recommend anyone does. Just learn to hitconfirm the first thing.

[Destin]

I'm sure it does more than 100

[Dreiko]

I think it's like 120ish but yeah...the other one is 180something lol.

[Dreiko]

Double post but it's worth it!

 

So on the AA combos, I found a new route, one which works on Elphelt easily enough too and uses the new 623S properties for major pain.

 

 

6P>cS>(5H>6H)>623S>214S>214K-4>J6H>623S>214S>236[H]>214K>(JK>2H>5H>6H>236H)/(j6H>cS>5H>6H>236H)

 

203 damage if your foe is close enough to you when you AA them that you can do the bit in the parenthesis.

[KentoHardRok]

Sounds crazy, going to have to try that out. How far does it travel? I imagine that 236h>214k-6, your looking for a wall stick to land the j.k?

[NagorbMan]

Does this have to be a red 623S? I would think the blue one wouldn't let you continue the combo, but maybe they can because they're so high up by the 5H6H

[Dreiko]

I was doing it starting in the default match start place, you could do it from a bit further out of the corner too. You could also probably do another loop of the DP route and end it with air driver. Will look into one starting from all the way out of the corner.

 

 

edit:

 

Ok I looked. I did this after holding back and hitting select, from that placement.

 

6P>cS>5H>6H>623S>214K-4>J6H>623S>214S>214K-4>J6H>cS>5H>6H>JK>JS>J6H>J236H

195 on El and her stupid hitbox

Does this have to be a red 623S? I would think the blue one wouldn't let you continue the combo, but maybe they can because they're so high up by the 5H6H

The first one is blue, the second is red. You can do 623S>214S>236[h] off of any height against most skinny chars even. Also the 6H in the combo is actually best delayed a lot so that 236[h] later on will hit them with both of its hits.

[KentoHardRok]

Something else, the order 6p has to be on counter hit so you can delay the c.S right? If not I think they can recover pretty fast before you can land c.S... ?

[NagorbMan]

Why do you have to delay c.s? It gatlings out of 6p. I'll test this all out when I get home but I'm pretty sure you don't need counter hit for this combo. It's all pretty standard antiair combo routes just with more baked hawks.

[Dreiko]

Something else, the order 6p has to be on counter hit so you can delay the c.S right? If not I think they can recover pretty fast before you can land c.S... ?

Not sure what you mean. You don't need any counter hits. It's all about spacing. If they're close to you enough cS lands.

 

 

 

Why do you have to delay c.s? It gatlings out of 6p. I'll test this all out when I get home but I'm pretty sure you don't need counter hit for this combo. It's all pretty standard antiair combo routes just with more baked hawks.

No, no counterhits needed. Hell you don't even need air hit for 6P>cS to combo together. cS is stupid fast.

[MD_Spriggs]

I don't know if this has been asked before. Can someone tell me how to properly use sin's DP given that it has no invulnerability on startup.. the only things I can come up with is using it in between holes in block strings and badly timed meaties

[MD_Spriggs]

If I answered my own question let me know. I'm known for that lol

[Dreiko]

I don't know if this has been asked before. Can someone tell me how to properly use sin's DP given that it has no invulnerability on startup.. the only things I can come up with is using it in between holes in block strings and badly timed meaties

Sin's DP does have invuln. It's just small so people can space their hits in such a way that they can hit you but your dp won't reach them. In most situations just backdashing is better.

[xlolxlolx]

his backdash is strong but because of its duration it drops your tension pulse like mad, so you dont actually want to use it that often if it can be helped

[Zephyrion22]

Sin's DP is good in the middle of most of the char strings since in this game most of the moves extend your hurtbox as well. You'd be surprised at what it can stuff. But yeah, blocking correctly, backdashing and 2Ping through holes are probably your best bet

[Dreiko]

Sin's DP is good in the middle of most of the char strings since in this game most of the move extend your hurtbox as well. You'd be surprised at what it can stuff. but yeah, blocking correctly, backdashing and 2Ping through holes is probably your best bet

My new favorite thing to Sin-DP is Sol 6H from max or near max range. Always looks super silly.

[Destin]

I honestly think sin's dp is quite good.  Being that you can use it safely, I feel more safe with it than sol's dp.  And if you hit an air hit, ohhhhh boy the damage.

[Dreiko]

I honestly think sin's dp is quite good.  Being that you can use it safely, I feel more safe with it than sol's dp.  And if you hit an air hit, ohhhhh boy the damage.

It is good but comes at a cost so not overusing it is key here. Sometimes you can nearly starve yourself with overusing the DP and if you don't have meter or just can't find a safe place in a round to eat it can very easily snowball. When you have no food your foe knows you can't DP them which is also a negative. Add that to it's really bad hitbox and while it is very good in some instances and provides us with a safe alternative to what Sol's dp does, it's not quite as reliable. I mean, Sol may get punished but he won't lose all of his combo ability every time he uses a Dp badly while you have to spend minimum 3k food on every baited Dp to make it safe and if you don't have meter to yrc eat after this you will be down that slippery slope which is hard to come out of.

 

It's a very fine line between getting out of pressure literally for free with his dp cancel on block and starving yourself into an early grave. 

[Zephyrion22]

It is good but comes at a cost so not overusing it is key here. Sometimes you can nearly starve yourself with overusing the DP and if you don't have meter or just can't find a safe place in a round to eat it can very easily snowball. When you have no food your foe knows you can't DP them which is also a negative. Add that to it's really bad hitbox and while it is very good in some instances and provides us with a safe alternative to what Sol's dp does, it's not quite as reliable. I mean, Sol may get punished but he won't lose all of his combo ability every time he uses a Dp badly while you have to spend minimum 3k food on every baited Dp to make it safe and if you don't have meter to yrc eat after this you will be down that slippery slope which is hard to come out of.

 

It's a very fine line between getting out of pressure literally for free with his dp cancel on block and starving yourself into an early grave. 

 

Also adding quicky that it's really easy to force his DP to whiff, which is really bad due to its awful recovery when used alone, which is CH state all the way to the end (only classic reversal with CH recovery, along with Sol's Kick follow-up on his DP) so if it get baited correctly, you're gonna get wrecked like there is no tomorrow. Also, don't tell this to our fellow Sol and Ky players, but every DP in the game can punish Sin's DP, regardless of whether he used a follow-up or not (only exception is Beak Driver, non IBed, and from literally point blankest of point blanks).

As for calorie consumption,if you don't want to fall short of calories later, don't forget one special cancel follow-up that is useful if  used sparingly enough : K leap[6]. This is calorie free and actually surprisingly hard to punish if you didn't expect it, which happens more often than not given the fact that Elk Hunt/Beak Driver are our main follow-up for it on block.

[Dreiko]

It always feels like the leap is easy to just airthrow on reaction so I never go for it but then again I almost never am in a situation where the DP won't starve me but the followup will.

 

 

But yeah on the baiting thing all they have to do is run up and backdash or jump cancel something away and it'll whiff.

[Zephyrion22]

Thing with Dp>K  Leap [6] is that is not throwable on reaction when used with the DP simply because you're probably very close when you commit to DP, so by the time they jump to throw you, if they didn't straight call it out, you'll be at the other side of the screen  before they can  throw you. I almost never got thrown out of it using it this way, (then again I really don't abuse risky stuff like that in general), and it got me out of the corner a few times. And it's not something related to player level, I dummy recorded it and played it randomly along with 623S>236K, and it's just incredibly hard to just react to it and airthrow punish reliably, as the window for doing so is incredibly tight. It's just an option to keep in mind , but I think it's a fairly decent one.

[Giggles454]

Great job on the wiki, whoever wrote all that stuff down the bottom. Very comprehensive.

[Destin]

Dude, it's a dp.  I mean, it's not a catch all of course.  Yes, it can't be baited and has ups and downs, but certain baits that work on others don't work as well against it.  It's not super powerful.  But it has a CONSIDERABLE number of benefits too.  This is certainly not a "weak" dp in this game.

[Lynxfort]

In 1.1 change list Elk Hunt's Recovery reduced from 12F to 11F does that mean it's now +3 on block ??