lofo Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I was pretty hype for this until I saw this team thing. I'm travelling internationally and skipping classes for travel time just for this tournament, just for +R. Suddenly I need a teammate I don't have and all the practice I've been doing on my sub is for nothing because of char lock. This change leaves a bad taste in my mouth to say the least, and I don't know what I'm going to do. I agree with what Essay wrote as well.
Tigre Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I don't really have much to add except I agree with Amadeous. I appreciate how he worded it too.
Zidane Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Reasons regarding the effectiveness of changing the tournament "last-minute", refunds, running, etc:  Is this a joke? There's 40+ days to fix any and all "problems" involving the tournament change. A lot of work? Get the fuck out of here. None of this will take longer than a day or 2. It would take hours if you had more than one competent monkey doing it.  "Teams would also have to be recorded at the door, meaning brackets would be made the day-of the tournament, giving no time for proper seeding and adding enormous stress to TOs" Yeah it's not like we ran a 150 man tournament last year doing that. And then it's not like we ran a 90 man tournament right after doing that too. Nope. Those tournaments didn't run successfully. Not at all. It's also not like people complaining to the TO after he's trying to do something for the community isn't putting stress on them. NOPE. Not Possible.  Reasons regarding gameplay:  "This is discouraging newer players. No one wants to "drag down" someone good. No one wants to be "carried". People want to see how good they can do on their own when they're starting out." First off, I would fucking love to get carried. Second off, if you don't want to get carried, if you don't want to drag someone down, if you want to see how good YOU are.. maybe you should WIN YOUR MATCHES. Jesus Christ. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. Now you have a person on your team that CAN help you get farther in the bracket and now you have to beat one more person. Oh, beating one more person is unfair? You shouldn't have to beat 2 people to advance? so much for caring about how good you are.  Here's MY personal anecdote. Wah wah, top player. wah wah, I like teams. wah wah, i'd rather accommodate the japanese players over the majority of dustloop fuckboys, wah wah. I'm sorry you have to deal with this Alan.Â
Thelo Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 What is this weak stuff about changing +R to 2v2? Get that out of there. Singles is how real tourneys are made, and singles is what was announced. Â Just revert it to the real format.
Jourdal Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Singles is how real tourneys are madeDamn, every single GG SBO wasn't a real tourney. Fuck.
Alzarath Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 What is this weak stuff about changing +R to 2v2? Get that out of there. Singles is how real tourneys are made, and singles is what was announced. Â Just revert it to the real format. Â Are you serious? So I guess SBO was a joke then lol You hear that, Japan? Your shit's weak!
Doren2k Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I'll be there this time finally first time in forever.  And I have no problems with 2v2.  ME and shitnoobi will be there to run through New york.  lol jk  And teams has always been the hypest tourneys for Guilty Gear since the beginning of time anyway. Â
lofo Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Regardless of whether you like team tournaments or not, the issue, at least for me, is the bait and switch of the tournament format after people have already committed time and money to travelling. The rest of that stuff is kind of a red herring.
Shinobi! Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I'll be there this time finally first time in forever.  And I have no problems with 2v2.  ME and shitnoobi will be there to run through New york.  lol jk  And teams has always been the hypest tourneys for Guilty Gear since the beginning of time anyway.   Put 'em in the dirt.
Thelo Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Spending more time, to play less games, and to make it more of a test of who your friends are than about how good you personally are? Yeah, I'm not seeing great upside to this, even beyond the terribly unprofessional bait-and-switch. Â I am glad I didn't preregister yet and managed to avoid getting sucker-punched by that surprise switch, though I'm honestly sad at some of my friends getting stung by this. If you wanted to cargo-cult what Japan did and do team tourneys only, at least have the decency to announce it as such before you start taking our money. As it is, unless it's reverted (and there's still time to fix it by reverting now), it actually is a pretty scummy thing to do.
Essay Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Teams are always character locked. What if they weren't? Â I can vouch for enough of the serious Canadian +R players competing with both a main and a counter-pick character in mind. Â It looks like these people are getting a big FU thrown at them for the work they've put in. Â Â Is there any reason we couldn't just allow for free-character selection (i.e. pick whoever, win or lose) for inclusivity's sake? Â That way, both the Japanese players can feel accommodated and so can any of the Western players who are used to playing around with subs. Â Â (I'm asking this as a character-specialist who has no intention of switching his choice up. Â Half the thrill for me in tournaments is overcoming my bad match-ups. Â I don't want to lord some win over Thelo, for example, just because he chose to run his Justice for the tournament instead of his Axl.)
St1ckBuG Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 To clear up one thing: the JP asked for it but that didn't make or break anything. I had been thinking about it for a while (~half a year) and long before it was ever brought up by someone else, but it took me a really long time to come to a final decision (too long in this case). I love Guilty Gear. And I love Guilty Gear teams even more. If I could, I would make every tournament teams, but there are too many "main event" games this year. You could say the JP recommendation was the last nail in the coffin, but I waited too long to act.  I'll revert it back to singles.  Also, the only reason it's being reverted back is because I waited too long and too many people have made irreversible plans already.  The tournament logistics of changing from singles to teams is laughable compared to the power going out, not having enough setups, the brackets being lost, or only 20% of the actual entrants pre-registering (see: not having enough setups). A majority of tournaments run late because not enough people pre-register and TOs have to look into their magic balls to make the schedule. The type of tournament being run is irrelevant, but the number of people entered, however, is a completely different animal.  Sorry Zinac, lofo, Essay, and thelo! I can understand if you don't want to come to NEC out of spite. It was my mistake!  IMO, and totally irrelevant to anything, the other side of the coin (and what I think about when choosing to make something teams vs singles):  Teams and singles still both require you to be good in order to win. Teams are interesting because you get to make up team compositions that cover bad match-ups. Teams let you team with your friends instead of having to eliminate them in the losers bracket. If your friends get mad at you for not teaming with them then I don't know how you can enter the same tournament since you might have to eliminate one another early on. Teams are more interesting to watch (what most of your time is spent doing) because you see more character diversity (more players = more character diversity unless everyone plays the same characters).  There are obvious downsides to almost every point and I understand that, but please understand that I was trying to make the event more exciting! Thanks for your feedback!
Thelo Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Thank you for taking our feedback seriously, it is appreciated.
Amadeous Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Glad you're open to critique St1ckBuG. TBH I'd still love to see a team tournament on another day of the tournament, they are super fun! But changing the main event at a late time is bad yeah :/
St1ckBuG Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 What if they weren't? Â I can vouch for enough of the serious Canadian +R players competing with both a main and a counter-pick character in mind. Â It looks like these people are getting a big FU thrown at them for the work they've put in. Â Â Is there any reason we couldn't just allow for free-character selection (i.e. pick whoever, win or lose) for inclusivity's sake? Â That way, both the Japanese players can feel accommodated and so can any of the Western players who are used to playing around with subs. Â Â (I'm asking this as a character-specialist who has no intention of switching his choice up. Â Half the thrill for me in tournaments is overcoming my bad match-ups. Â I don't want to lord some win over Thelo, for example, just because he chose to run his Justice for the tournament instead of his Axl.) Â Historically team events require character lock. I was thinking about maybe letting people enter alone (by allowing them to team with themselves and not have character lock), but that's too weird of a format IMO. It's either teams with character lock or singles no-lock.Â
St1ckBuG Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 There won't be a teams side event. Xrd single elim will be taking that slot. Thought I would be open to single-elim Xrd teams if people wanted it.
lofo Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks for taking this seriously, St1ckBuG. I really appreciate it.
Amadeous Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Ah yeah, I completely forgot about the Xrd event. Well that makes sense.
Essay Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Apologies for putting damper on those who were getting hype for teams, and thank you St1ckBuG for the quick resolution.  If it was teams from the start, I would have been hype too.  The points on the merits of team-tourneys are spot-on, especially the second one re: the strategy of it.  I want to play that game and will try to make it happen if you organize a NE team tourney with enough notice.  Historically team events require character lock. I was thinking about maybe letting people enter alone (by allowing them to team with themselves and not have character lock), but that's too weird of a format IMO. It's either teams with character lock or singles no-lock. Yea, it was just an idea to kind of make the last-minute change-up go over easier.  History's/tradition's sake doesn't really matter to me if there's a better solution, but I have no problem with character-lock team tourneys in normal circumstances.  Which leads me to...  There won't be a teams side event. Xrd single elim will be taking that slot. Thought I would be open to single-elim Xrd teams if people wanted it. This.  Absolutely THIS.
Zinac Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Not going to go into why I think teams have historically not been received all that well here in the US.I do appreciate you listening St1ckBuG, and I wasn't going to cancel my plans. I'm still traveling just to hang out with people I haven't seen for a while.
eric Posted October 23, 2014 Author Posted October 23, 2014 Get your rooms fast. To book your room please contact the Reservations Departments at 610-521-9600 and ask to make a reservations for NEC Philly. 203 rooms gone so far. Last week at this time we only had 78 rooms sold. You do the math. Lol. Prices: $99 plus tax for Single $109 plus tax for Double $119 plus tax for triple $129 plus tax for Quad(number of people in room) lol if you tell them that it's your fault lol. Last year we sold the hotel by Nov. so please don't wait.
St1ckBuG Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Just throwing this out there since a lot of people look past it then complain later:  If you do not pre-register, there is no guarantee you will be seeded by region and/or skill in the tournaments you enter at the door. You will be placed into the bracket randomly. This is to save time the day of the tournament.  By pre-registering you are helping the TOs schedule and plan their event accordingly. When 3 people pre-register but 80 people show up for the tournament and only 1 setup + 1 hour was allocated for that game... get the idea? Please pre-register if you can. You save yourself money and you help the event organizers plan a smooth event. It's a win-win for everyone!
Chris Chaos Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Okay so NEC is looking possible for me to make it however, I won't get paid until the 1st of Nov. I don't see a cut-off date for pre-registration on the site, or on the first post so is Nov 1 too late to pre-register? I don't want to fight any of my local players 1st round if I can avoid it.
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