Dreiko Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 You guys do understand that people who already belong to the community and care for the game, have the right to express their distaste for the choices the creators make, right? Or maybe we should just suck everything up and not be vocal about their shitty decisions. I guess we shouldn't have complained about vanilla Kokonoe either! Sure, if you wanna complain about gameplay stuff such as Kokonoe in 1.0 that's reasonable. Nobody said anything about that here lol. How much stuff costs and whatnot are entirely from the business by the numbers side of things which we don't influence at all though. This is not new in any case, there's been an extend before. It's a very clear pattern. It apparently did well enough to support a sequel so what you purport as an issue didn't really measure up as far as the general playerbase is concerned.(which includes first and foremost the Japanese audiences, thus is doubly irrelevant for us to bitch and moan) . Definitely not as much as Kokonoe did anyhow. Oh and complaining about issues is one thing while saying "I'm not buying this game" is another. The latter doesn't suggest solutions or anything pragmatic and is just a blog update that's not helpful.
RurouniLoneWolf Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 The free update was cp1.1. Just cause the arcades called it cp2 it doesn't mean it's parallel to cs2 which was free. The parallel to cs2 was cp1.1. This is a wrong way of thinking to begin with. You shouldn't really be using past experience as a definitive means for predicting the future, especially when past experience is literally the only time it has ever happened. So long as ASW didn't confirm/deny the existence of a patch, there was really no reason to think it was either going to happen or not going to happen.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 You guys do understand that people who already belong to the community and care for the game, have the right to express their distaste for the choices the creators make, right? Or maybe we should just suck everything up and not be vocal about their shitty decisions. I guess we shouldn't have complained about vanilla Kokonoe either! Saying "I'm not going to buy the game" isn't exactly expressing anything :V If you truly care about the game and want to support the community, why are you even talking about dropping it in the first place? How is that supporting anything? Not saying you should be sheep and suck up anything Arcsys puts out, but this is how they've been running the series since 2010 and it's generally how FG's are done. If you care about the series then just suck it up and buy it and support your scene while writing angry letters to Arcsys. If you're not going to buy it, then don't make a commotion about it and just move on lol.
Dreiko Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 This is a wrong way of thinking to begin with. You shouldn't really be using past experience as a definitive means for predicting the future, especially when past experience is literally the only time it has ever happened. So long as ASW didn't confirm/deny the existence of a patch, there was really no reason to think it was either going to happen or not going to happen. You're 100% correct but even WITH that flawed way of reasoning people use it's STILL incorrect to expect cp2.0 as a free patch. It's just the flawed logic that bugs me, never mind that people shouldn't be using this logic in the first place.
Jotamide Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Lol, I wonder how many people actually mean it when they say they won't get it and are just gonna cave a few months later. I admit, I would get it for like $20 if I saw it on sale around 2-3 months after the game's release. Otherwise, I know the next BBC_ is coming and would save my money. However, if this came to Steam within 6 months I would buy at full price purely out of support for the platform.
TekkamanArk Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Lol, I wonder how many people actually mean it when they say they won't get it and are just gonna cave a few months later. This would only be possible if I liked the update in some capacity. Instead, it's another denial of what i've wanted since the very first game, a truckload of nerfs for basically everyone (nerfing everything isn't fun, that's why BBCSEX was so bad), redundancy with Lambda and Nu (when Lambda isn't even good as I hear it to boot), and shoehorning a non-combatant (Celica) into the game to capitalize on fanservice when there are many more characters they could add with actual relevance (Jubei, Nine, Saya, etc). What I was holding out for this long was to see if Cajun and Mai would be announced as playable (and of course part of me still hope for Jubei DLC, but I know that's not happening because Mori hates anything good). Having an additional 2 characters would have made me get it begrudgingly and still try to get enjoyment from it. Now i'm just going to wait until the next actual sequal and just watch the new story content on Youtube or something.
Myoro Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Sure, if you wanna complain about gameplay stuff such as Kokonoe in 1.0 that's reasonable. Nobody said anything about that here lol. How much stuff costs and whatnot are entirely from the business by the numbers side of things which we don't influence at all though. This is not new in any case, there's been an extend before. It's a very clear pattern. It apparently did well enough to support a sequel so what you purport as an issue didn't really measure up as far as the general playerbase is concerned.(which includes first and foremost the Japanese audiences, thus is doubly irrelevant for us to bitch and moan) . Definitely not as much as Kokonoe did anyhow. Oh and complaining about issues is one thing while saying "I'm not buying this game" is another. The latter doesn't suggest solutions or anything pragmatic and is just a blog update that's not helpful. Actually I remember a ton of people here talking down to me and other like-minded individuals near the beginning of CP1.0 for saying Koko looked super unbalanced. That pretty much continued up until that "2A>death vid" surfaced, and then even a little bit afterword. I can't forget that, because I ended up doubting myself for it... But who wants to talk about ancient stuff like that? That horse was beaten to death, resurrected with forbidden majiks, then beaten again. Let's not talk about that. Let's talk about the current issues eh? Over all I'm inclined to agree with Dreiko for whatever that's worth. I mean, it's sad and all that you don't think it's worth buying, but passed that, what are you even doing here amidst the discussion of a game that you will never own? I mean you're perfectly within your right for doing so as long as the mods allow it, and I sure won't complain, but isn't it a little odd to be in a topic that is no longer relevant to you? I have a very helpful rule rule that I won't complain about something without a solution in mind. It helps me not feel idle or powerless when I'm discontented. That said, isn't there a better place to post such stuff than a topic discussing the game? Like a twitter account or something? Voicing you abhorrence of Extend like updates here won't change a thing, not a soul here has much of a connection to the marketing executives behind the decision, but if you get vocal enough elsewhere you may have an impact. Not to dash your hopes completely Heavymetal, but there will probably be no free update. I don't like to outright declare something impossible, so I'll just say that it is extra-extremely unlikely at this point in time. I can't fault you for having faith tho, I'm still holding out on those additional characters that will prolly not come. I don't think BB will die though, CPE looks fun to me. Well that's my two cents on all of this. In non-tangental news, a close US release is a very welcome thing to me. Looking forward to a summer release.
Slaudial Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I dunno this is a fucking garbage business practice how much money have you had to spend to keep up to date with BB from the start like 200+ or something lol BBCP comes out - $60??? + dlc chars. -----1 year later----- bitch where's my additional $40
Myoro Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Mreh, I've gotten some mileage outta BB. And I'm more against buying a PS4 that makes you pay for internet you're already paying for. I think when BB stops being worth it for me I'll stop buying it. For filthy casuals like me BB is simply good entertainment, and good entertainment's worth is up to the individual. If you don't think CPE is worth the 40~50 dollars, don't pay 40~50 dollars for it. gameshare it with some kind soul, or split the bill with another, wait for the price to decline, or else skip out on it completely. That's the bottom line. Beyond advice there's really no point in discussing it here. If you're looking for a reason to buy it, consult people individually in PMs or else do some deep introspection.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 This would only be possible if I liked the update in some capacity. Instead, it's another denial of what i've wanted since the very first game, a truckload of nerfs for basically everyone (nerfing everything isn't fun, that's why BBCSEX was so bad), redundancy with Lambda and Nu (when Lambda isn't even good as I hear it to boot), and shoehorning a non-combatant (Celica) into the game to capitalize on fanservice when there are many more characters they could add with actual relevance (Jubei, Nine, Saya, etc). What I was holding out for this long was to see if Cajun and Mai would be announced as playable (and of course part of me still hope for Jubei DLC, but I know that's not happening because Mori hates anything good). Having an additional 2 characters would have made me get it begrudgingly and still try to get enjoyment from it. Now i'm just going to wait until the next actual sequal and just watch the new story content on Youtube or something. Lol ok. I don't really care if you get it or not, I just think your reasons are extremely shallow and unfounded. But hey, if the game dissatisfies you so much, by all means.
Moy_X7 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 $40 sounds like decent middle ground, day 1 release purchase +1. I honestly just can't wait to play new Plat and give Koko a spin, maybe (I'm in love with the Koko).
TekkamanArk Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Lol ok. I don't really care if you get it or not, I just think your reasons are extremely shallow and unfounded. But hey, if the game dissatisfies you so much, by all means. I really don't care if you think i'm shallow or whatever, but, I kinda just told you what the founding was, so... I'll be sure to buy the actual sequel, but making everyone pretty much worse and adding 2 more characters who also suck into the game isn't winning my money.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I really don't care if you think i'm shallow or whatever, but, I kinda just told you what the founding was, so... I'll be sure to buy the actual sequel, but making everyone pretty much worse and adding 2 more characters who also suck into the game isn't winning my money. Did you even see some of the changes or are you just generalizing?
TekkamanArk Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Did you even see some of the changes or are you just generalizing? On the whole, it's mostly nerfs. I saw the changes, saw they got rid of some of the early nerfs, and got rid of buffs too. For the majority, it's nerfs. I'm not making any tier list argument here, but everyone got hit to some degree.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 On the whole, it's mostly nerfs. I saw the changes, saw they got rid of some of the early nerfs, and got rid of buffs too. For the majority, it's nerfs. I'm not making any tier list argument here, but everyone got hit to some degree. It's pretty easy to say "EVERYTHING IS NERFS" when you ignore the buffs that remained :V
TekkamanArk Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 It's pretty easy to say "EVERYTHING IS NERFS" when you ignore the buffs that remained :V It is when the nerfs trivialize those buffs, beyond perhaps Tager
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 It is when the nerfs trivialize those buffs, beyond perhaps Tager Welcome to FG balance 101. Enjoy your stay. Look man, I'm not gonna justify what Team Blue does with this game's balance. I'm not exactly a big fan of their balance work either, but skipping a game isn't really doing anything. I just wanna play and if I got to buy this to continue, then screw it. I'm sorry your character(s) isn't strong in this version? Better luck next time? I don't know, this argument is kind of dumb lol.
TekkamanArk Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Welcome to FG balance 101. Enjoy your stay. Look man, I'm not gonna justify what Team Blue does with this game's balance. I'm not exactly a big fan of their balance work either, but skipping a game isn't really doing anything. I just wanna play and if I got to buy this to continue, then screw it. I'm sorry your character(s) isn't strong in this version? Better luck next time? I don't know, this argument is kind of dumb lol. I'm not even talking about my characters in particular. I can deal with my characters being nerfed. It's no fun when EVERYONE is nerfed. And skipping the game is doing something, it's saving me money.
Dreiko Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I dunno where this "It's all nerfs!" thing comes from when a lot of chars who were struggling (Izayoi, Bang, Tager, Bullet, Tsubaki) became better and a lot of the good chars also became better if not stayed about the same. Only the super duper strong chars got nerfed in this...and Hazama/Valk are STILL on top despite that. Is this "it's all nerfs" thing specifically pertaining only to Kokonoe, Rachel Hakumen and Mu? Cause I can't think of a char who got significantly nerfed outside of those. if anything, it's the other way around. If anything, the chars who got nerfed got buffs to mitigate those nerfs by a good enough degree that they're still competitive (though maybe not S tier) and may end up also being more fun to use, which is great.
Myoro Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Anything's trivial when you don't put much thought into it. For instance Relius lost the jump cancel on 3C Block/Hit, and got a jump cancel in 2C Block/Hit. At a glance they seem to cancel one another out, but that is merely at a glance. Take it a layer deeper and you'll see that the way many combo and block strings operate have completely changed. 2C has a slightly shorter effective range than 3C as it is slower and slightly shorter. This means fewer moves can be used before using your jump cancelable normal to cycle pressure or end it safely. You will also be more prone to falling for barrier pushback and having to wait on the hefty recovery of 2C or else incur further Ignis cost to continue pressure. The absence of 3C's jump cancel also makes the auto confirm string 5B>3C>jump+6D>air normal cease to function, which means Relius becomes more reaction demanding in his confirms or else will have to sacrifice additional Ignis meter or damage. Taken even deeper, the addition of 2C jump cancel increases overall damage, effectively edging out 6B and its horrid P2, and allowing for useful chains like 2C>TKj.236C which increases damage potential in the corner while keeping Ignis cost relatively low. 3C's absence of jump cancel eliminates safe-jump oki, which eliminates one DP safe option of locking down and makes de-summoning and maintaining advantage a slightly more difficult task. These changes when taken into account on their own would indecate that Relius is going from a character who overwhelms the opponent with intense pressure and oki getting many smaller damaging confirms to one that gets fewer confirms but can make them count for more. And that's just one fraction of one change. (and is by no means the whole picture, but just one example of how nerfs and buffs are deep stuff. My opinion of him in 2.0 is not based soley on this, and with all changes taken into account, I think Rel's pressure and oki has gotten more intense with an overall increase in damage and execution demands, however he is a good bit more reliant on Ignis to do his chores.)
Dawn of Musou Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Seems like a trailer came out too. If this is the new opening then I like.
Myoro Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 workin' fine for me. Joke endings look fun. lol'd when they advertised mode by mode. Whoa, check out these features, VS mode? oh snap! get hype! All jokes aside vs mode rematch was shown off. Looks quickish. Me likey. Celica and Rachel are in toutorial mode now. Rooms look cool too. Like the new theme. Sad that there's no teaser for an additional new character, but c'est la vie.
IndigoNovember Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 It is when the nerfs trivialize those buffs, beyond perhaps Tager Bullet's looking a bit better too! 0:52 LMAO! For those who don't understand Japanese and why this is funny, that scene is from the Gag Reel: Relius to Terumi: "Let's get married." Ragna: "EEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?"
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