[CP] News and Gameplay Discussion 2.0

[Raziul]

GCOD into 4K yukikaze reversal? If Haku's at 6-8 stars he can turn around and add shippu to it also.

[Myoro]

Did it actually end up making that big of an impact?

Everybody was worried about it when we first learned about it, but I haven't really seen it being that huge in match vids I've watched.

 

OD Raid used to look a lot more scary back in Loketest land, back then it was basically OD Cancel that canceled your blockstun gave you invuln that could link into a distortion reversal all while leaving you with a moderate chunk of OD time to play with afterwords.

 

Even now the only thing that's changed is that you experience 16 frames (invincible) recovery, and the OD time you get after has been severely shortened.

 

I do see matches stolen by OD Raid here and there, and while it is a mechanic I'm made uncomfortable by, I'm thankful that I won't have to deal with loketest OD Raid

[Runis]

it might be useful for zoner types to reverse pressure to their advantage via short combo into knock down, as opposed to CA/Burst and ending up roughly at neutral.

[BlackYakuzu94]

GCOD looks better for some characters than everyone honestly lol.

[bakahyl]

It can be even dabatable if OD raid are beneficial to some characters and in some situations. Against characters like Amane with level 3 drills or Arakune with fever and sometimes even Tager, I'd rather want to get the opponent off me instead of using an OD next to them.

[TD]

Gcod not only has character specific nuances, it has character vs character situations. It's versatile enough to always be an option so long as one is blocking with a burst, but it may not net a huge damage reward for some or many characters, just a chance to evaluate the situation and plan an escape strategy; then again, some characters like the resident zoners love this and don't mind not having top Gcod damage potential. As already said, people with reversal supers benefit greatly from better damage and positioning, because they simply have more options to confuse the foe with, some of which lead to massive damage in the short coming seconds. Further down the road, we may be able to see a stable tier list representing who can use this mechanic the best.

It has great synergy with everyone's defensive options, and risk/reward is so vastly different for each character, I think it's a great addition and adds more depth to the defensive system.

[Tong]

OD Raid works better for characters who can't get good mileage out of their ODs in combos or in situations where a burst would put you at an disadvantaged situation. One of the characters that can get the best out of OD Raid are Tager and Celica because of these reasons on top of having decent and reliable reversals to punish unsafe blockstrings during OD Raid.

 

But it's rare for most characters having both of these situations, so usually it's better to hold onto the OD for a possible damaging combo or by bursting and resetting to neutral/advantageous situation in their favor.

[AchedSphinx]

Also, Nu can´t because sword is not right next to her anymore. RIP Reversal 632146D

I thought Nu's Calamity was 4 swords when she does it from OD state. Unless they changed it. I haven't been keeping up with BB lately. If she does get 4 swords still, it's not exactly a complete reversal. The swords come down at different speeds so the opponent may have time to block if they haven't commited to anything. Though, the cool part is that it's plus on block, so that's sweet.

[Dreiko]

I thought Nu's Calamity was 4 swords when she does it from OD state. Unless they changed it. I haven't been keeping up with BB lately. If she does get 4 swords still, it's not exactly a complete reversal. The swords come down at different speeds so the opponent may have time to block if they haven't commited to anything. Though, the cool part is that it's plus on block, so that's sweet.

There's 4 swords but the one closest to her still whiffs you if you're right on top of her so it doesn't matter since the other 3 move even further away than the first one.

[Nemesis]

Pretty sure OD Calamity acts as a reversal still  - just not the normal version anymore (for nu-13 that is)

[pokemonblaze234]

It can be even dabatable if OD raid are beneficial to some characters and in some situations. Against characters like Amane with level 3 drills or Arakune with fever and sometimes even Tager, I'd rather want to get the opponent off me instead of using an OD next to them.

Well, I guess this doesn't apply anymore lol, CP2 Mu, but GC is better overall cuz it gets the opponent away from you so you can like, setup up(ded) steins, or start your zoning game or w/e, well, I guess GC is better for "zoners" than other characters or something ike that.

[chzchan]

On the topic of OD, are there any subtleties that have been added to certain characters' ODs in 2.0 that have been glanced over or not explored? When I look at Tager in OD and see OD magnets at work, I don't even understand what properties could have been modified to allow for this to happen. The guard point has already been taken note of, but what the hell is going on with magnetism and wallbounce?

 

Another sort of not really example is Izayoi's D special followups in OD hitting multiple times, but there has to be more because I know they wanted to make OD a lot more flashy with the direction they have been taking it in this update.

[Hollysmoke]

Is there a list of patch notes of all the changes up to this most recent point in time?

[chzchan]

I doubt these would be listed in patch notes aside from maybe the Izayoi one. These are the kinds of things that would go officially undocumented. From watching a ton of matchup videos of my character I have been taking note of possible unlisted hitbox changes, special movement/positioning changes and the like. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in a bunch of whack OD property changes as well.

[Airk]

Is there a list of patch notes of all the changes up to this most recent point in time?

 

No. This is Arc Sys, remember? Even when they release notes (which they never do for big changes) they usually don't have everything.

[Dreiko]

On the topic of OD, are there any subtleties that have been added to certain characters' ODs in 2.0 that have been glanced over or not explored? When I look at Tager in OD and see OD magnets at work, I don't even understand what properties could have been modified to allow for this to happen. The guard point has already been taken note of, but what the hell is going on with magnetism and wallbounce?

 

Another sort of not really example is Izayoi's D special followups in OD hitting multiple times, but there has to be more because I know they wanted to make OD a lot more flashy with the direction they have been taking it in this update.

For Bang there are since his OD does different things based on which seals you have and what each seal does has been adjusted somewhat. For example, the 6D seal makes him have a little leaf and smoke effect to his teleport dashes and grants him some projectile invuln while the jD seal now instead of affecting his combo rate just gives him old school frkz style damage bonuses (just a flat 20% damage buff to all the things) while at the same time removing the worse-than-normal combo rate that would be the norm if you went OD without the jD seal in CP1.0/1.1.

[skd]

On the topic of OD, are there any subtleties that have been added to certain characters' ODs in 2.0 that have been glanced over or not explored? When I look at Tager in OD and see OD magnets at work, I don't even understand what properties could have been modified to allow for this to happen. The guard point has already been taken note of, but what the hell is going on with magnetism and wallbounce?

 

Another sort of not really example is Izayoi's D special followups in OD hitting multiple times, but there has to be more because I know they wanted to make OD a lot more flashy with the direction they have been taking it in this update.

 

Well, old OD Astraea and strike fall had buffs that really were never mentioned/differentiated (no data/mention in the mook either), but as far as the tager thing, i think him getting gp on the same frame as the hit must have prevented him from going into hitstop (i feel like this specific guard point interaction happened with some other chars), allowing him to slow her down earlier (more stored momentum) then a wallbounce + od strength magnetism = ??? So, if anything i'd wager that its more of a result of distance from corner + new od 5D rather than subtle OD properties.

 

I doubt these would be listed in patch notes aside from maybe the Izayoi one. These are the kinds of things that would go officially undocumented. From watching a ton of matchup videos of my character I have been taking note of possible unlisted hitbox changes, special movement/positioning changes and the like. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in a bunch of whack OD property changes as well.

 

there were a few unlisted izayoi OD changes too. Afaik, nothing was really mentioned about her OD changing, but durations and return were changed pretty heavily (notably, her ODGC stock return is really high making it a pretty good choice, but it seems very backloaded now where early OD return is lower), phorizer wallsplat was removed in favor of slide (so you can place your opponent into the corner with D teleport despite D teleport always crossing up, its wonky looking but hella consistent), strike fall hitting mutliple times was unmentioned im sure, the "new" astraea as well. Hopefully they have separate info given and shit but yeah. not that there was info given on these things in the first place either, though hahaha. Then again, as far as unlisted things about her go, this is like the tip of the iceberg orz

[chzchan]

Looking at it again you are definitely right with your description of what happened in the video. There was a big delay between when she was hit and when she went flying all the while Tager's Atomic collier was happening with his back to the corner. Knowing what OD 5D is capable of already, it was mostly the funky positioning and the hitstop that caused things to look strange.

 

I saw that the extra hits for Izayoi were listed on the 1.1->2.0 changes portion of the wiki, but yeah what you and Dreiko are talking about are the types of subtle adjustments that I am wondering about.

[StylisH]

Well, old OD Astraea and strike fall had buffs that really were never mentioned/differentiated (no data/mention in the mook either), but as far as the tager thing, i think him getting gp on the same frame as the hit must have prevented him from going into hitstop (i feel like this specific guard point interaction happened with some other chars), allowing him to slow her down earlier (more stored momentum) then a wallbounce + od strength magnetism = ??? So, if anything i'd wager that its more of a result of distance from corner + new od 5D rather than subtle OD properties.

 

 

there were a few unlisted izayoi OD changes too. Afaik, nothing was really mentioned about her OD changing, but durations and return were changed pretty heavily (notably, her ODGC stock return is really high making it a pretty good choice, but it seems very backloaded now where early OD return is lower), phorizer wallsplat was removed in favor of slide (so you can place your opponent into the corner with D teleport despite D teleport always crossing up, its wonky looking but hella consistent), strike fall hitting mutliple times was unmentioned im sure, the "new" astraea as well. Hopefully they have separate info given and shit but yeah. not that there was info given on these things in the first place either, though hahaha. Then again, as far as unlisted things about her go, this is like the tip of the iceberg orz

 

Strike Fall combos into Phorizer it seems.  No more dropped links in netplay.  I am happy.  Yay.

[skd]

GCOD into 4K yukikaze reversal? If Haku's at 6-8 stars he can turn around and add shippu to it also.

 

well first off thats a bit specific, since that would mean doing an immediate GCOD (if they stagger their cancel at all, youre in a bad spot cause the flash gives away your reversal ability before they commit) on something that is extremely slow, so im wagering with a slight stagger so that you dont get a superflash on your opponent's first possible cancel frame we are talking about ~20+ frames total, where...you are most likely already out of blockstun, meaning can and should probably just yukikaze without blowing the OD. GCOD used defensively is best for going through an anticipated move, but it has a lengthy total duration so it only ensures punishes on a few whiffs.

 

Strike Fall combos into Phorizer it seems.  No more dropped links in netplay.  I am happy.  Yay.

 

Well, that isnt really an OD thing, but yeah it still combos. They wouldn't take that away from her, lol. but...sorry to be the bringer of bad news but to me it seems like the strike fall > phorizer link is actually tighter this version if anything! The minimum height requirement still exists, unless you blow the extra star to astraea (careful with smp!)

 

one of the best uses of GCOD tbh just seems like you can guess with it to gather frame advantage, punishing isnt really super necessary for most characters. to be honest, i think GCOD with izayoi is extremely strong, between her having a DP, 7f big damage comboable super, godlike backdash, and passive gain with GCOD. No matter the situation, you gain some kind of benefit for guessing with it. At the bare minimum, you gain stocks, but if you see your opponent doing something you have a lot of options to either attempt to return to neutral, reversal, or punish. Even if your opponent has cancel options during your superlfash, she still has ways to RPS while gaining stars, so it's a very good guess to make. I dont really know off the top of my head, but does it take the same amount of burst gauge as normal OD?

Edited March 13, 2015 by not_lunaris

[BlackYakuzu94]

You mean does it have the same recharge rate as if you did a normal OD to get the burst stock back?

[skd]

You mean does it have the same recharge rate as if you did a normal OD to get the burst stock back?

 

Well, it's not the rate of gain that differs for burst and OD, its the fact that youre literally left with about a third of your burst gauge after burning it on OD rather than bursting. I could pretty easily verify this myself though, i was just being a bit lazy haha. Ill check up on it in a sec, finishing hw :>

 

edit: yes, od guard cancel indeed leaves you with a third of OD. i feel like ill be using it a lot, hahaha

Edited March 13, 2015 by not_lunaris

[StylisH]

well first off thats a bit specific, since that would mean doing an immediate GCOD (if they stagger their cancel at all, youre in a bad spot cause the flash gives away your reversal ability before they commit) on something that is extremely slow, so im wagering with a slight stagger so that you dont get a superflash on your opponent's first possible cancel frame we are talking about ~20+ frames total, where...you are most likely already out of blockstun, meaning can and should probably just yukikaze without blowing the OD. GCOD used defensively is best for going through an anticipated move, but it has a lengthy total duration so it only ensures punishes on a few whiffs.

 

 

Well, that isnt really an OD thing, but yeah it still combos. They wouldn't take that away from her, lol. but...sorry to be the bringer of bad news but to me it seems like the strike fall > phorizer link is actually tighter this version if anything! The minimum height requirement still exists, unless you blow the extra star to astraea (careful with smp!)

 

one of the best uses of GCOD tbh just seems like you can guess with it to gather frame advantage, punishing isnt really super necessary for most characters. to be honest, i think GCOD with izayoi is extremely strong, between her having a DP, 7f big damage comboable super, godlike backdash, and passive gain with GCOD. No matter the situation, you gain some kind of benefit for guessing with it. At the bare minimum, you gain stocks, but if you see your opponent doing something you have a lot of options to either attempt to return to neutral, reversal, or punish. Even if your opponent has cancel options during your superlfash, she still has ways to RPS while gaining stars, so it's a very good guess to make. I dont really know off the top of my head, but does it take the same amount of burst gauge as normal OD?

......damn it. The struggle continues. I'm still on the fence about GCOD though. Just one of those things I need to try first hand. ATM I can't find many uses in my playstyle for it except lolfuckyourblockstringbro and we got better defensive options this time around. Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and it's the best thing since peanut butter...

[Dreiko]

From what I've seen the strike fall link is tight but the actual phorizer itself has a lot more hitstun meaning you can do dual phorizer easier and outside of od now at the end of every combo. Not that much of a common thing but it's something.

[skd]

From what I've seen the strike fall link is tight but the actual phorizer itself has a lot more hitstun meaning you can do dual phorizer easier and outside of od now at the end of every combo. Not that much of a common thing but it's something.

 

???

 

phorizer has the same untechable time (maybe even less), as it was, double phorizer worked at the end of every combo no matter what in 1.1 (supers are always unscaled as far as untechable time goes, and it was like a 5 frame window for the second phorizer).

 

Phorizer likely has no change from 1.1 to 2.0 except wallsplat removal in OD, and the difference between the two is purely on hitstop, i think? They actually have the same amount of untechable time, the only thing that changes is where you end up after you teleport.

 

if youre talking about the combo choice with people doing midcombo phorizer, it's generally a corner carry thing. It does decent damage. Aside from this, the only other factor here is D teleport, which apparently has been changed, and could make double phorizer easier, though it was still like a 5f window to ~[214]D 236236C, it wasn't restricted or anything before.

 

Actually, you couldn't do double phorizer at the end of every combo in OD hilariously enough. The wallsplat would usually body you, you'd have to end the combo with your opponent midscreen, or hit them with phorizer really high so that you could either dash phorizer (godawful hard), or just phorizer with or without a teleport depending on wallsplat height.

 

In general, her midcombo OD usage was restricted to almost exclusively midscreen (most conversions with OD were only useful/possible if she had 50 meter, but this was impossible near the corner because the forced wallsplat would result in less untechable time, or be useless b/c damage scaling when you set up the correct height) so the removal of the wallsplat is a huge buff, along with her new OD moves. Unfortunately, there is still her combo rate nerf and a lot of her combo tools getting changed around, so you wont be seeing 8k out of her ass anymore but she should hit reasonably hard (7k!) much more consistently, so im glad for that.

 

@StylisH the thing about 1.1 is that you could put in a lot of work with height manipulation thanks to late active frame hits with noir. Pretty much gave you more time to actually land the super instead of the minimum 7f height, so a lot of air combos usually meant you would have extra time (realistically, this panned out to literally 1 extra frame lol). New strike fall looks like the heights have changed, it looks much tighter to actually get the super height.

 

New strike fall also means that she lost strike fall > dash 5c combos, but those always required a minimum of two stars (teleport, height adjustment, strike fall) and would give you a 3c ender. Not really missing too much, tbh. Strike fall into astraea might be more expensive (no way to convert into knockdown for 2 stars without corner, or character specific routes. Maybe. Ill see.) so as things are right now, it looks like you'll have to blow 3 stars, but the corner carry is much more substantial, and the actual conversions are much, much more stable. Besides, the oki after new strike fall is a lot better, so i'd take it over the old one any day.

 

if i had to condense my thoughts, it points to more restricted combo selection, but it actually does not matter because it's still very reasonable and pans out just as if not more effectively.

Edited March 13, 2015 by not_lunaris