mAceOfHearts Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Leo seems low-mid tider to me. (C-B) His neutral is too bad for him to counteract zoning effectively and he has to be close to his opponent and be in Brynhildr Stance to have any kind of effective mix-up. His solid damage output and Brynhildr Stance mix-up are his only saving graces. His lack of mobility is especially apparent when dealing with Ramlethal, Millia and Ky, all of whom can run circles around him and use various specials to keep him away. This is just my personal experience with him, though. I'm sure there are ways around this, and I imagine Potemkin players have similar issues.
SoWL Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 One thing I can say about this game - Compared to AC/+R, it really feels like you have to WORK to get damage with Potemkin. The shift to widescreen and the loss of his hyper armor Force Break definitely play a role in this. Actually the screen is about the same size horizontally. At the "close" zoom level, when the players are near each other, characters are much taller than AC. (Faust's Baldhead taunt goes up over the lifebars, another reaches up off the top of the screen.) Even the distant zoom feels about the same in terms of what it takes to close the gap. Also, this might be the first time I've seen someone miss Judge Gauntlet. There are many more crucial tools that were taken away from him.
StylisH Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Here's the most recent Japanese Console Tier List, as of January 8th, courtesy of StunEdge/Ho-Chan, in order from Left to Right. S: Milia, Zato-1, Ramlethal, Faust, Elphelt A: Sol, I-No, Venom, Sin, Ky, Chipp B: Other (May and Bedman) C: Slayer, Axl, Potemkin. Not Sure/Unranked: Leo Whitefang http://www.twitter.com/hc0519/status/553103296995794944 Interesting list, although I'd put Sin and Ky in B and Bedman in C, but that's just my personal opinion. It could go a lot of ways considering the majority of the cast is pretty strong.
Stellarcircle5 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Venom absolutely deserved the bump up in ranking. I honestly think he had been slept on more than any character thus far. Dude is a nightmare to deal with. I still think Chipp should be in S, but that's probably the Millia player in me resenting the matchup he brings.
StylisH Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Venom absolutely deserved the bump up in ranking. I honestly think he had been slept on more than any character thus far. Dude is a nightmare to deal with. I still think Chipp should be in S, but that's probably the Millia player in me resenting the matchup he brings. I feel you on the Chip MU. It's like catching Sonic the damn Hedgehog.
GKHiryu Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Why do you feel Axl and Slayer are now ranked lower than Bedman? I think if these two are now ranked as low as Pot, then the Bed should be there too. His damage potential is much lower than Slayer's, but he makes up for it (kinda, ehhh) with neutral, zoning and more variety in offense. However while Slayer may surprise you less his approach is more solid (i.e. less possibilities to poke him out of blockstrings/mixup). I can't honestly compare BE to Axl, I barely know his options.
OP8 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 What are people thinking of the new characters elph, leo and sin? Anyone willing to say a few things on how these characters are panning out right now? Leo: I feel like a lot of his pressure can be countered by knowing when to throw/jab/FD. His projectile YRC stuff is good, but he doesn't seem to have a lot of options to open you up. It's way too early to tell, but I don't see him ever being any higher than the lower part of mid tier. Elphelt: I think she's a really strong character. She has some decent normals, and a lot of easy combos that lead to knockdown and allow you to safely get a Berry Pine on screen. I think her Berry Pine is one of the best projectiles in the game. She can control its trajectory and to some degree when it will explode. Good Berry Pine pressure and a good Shot Gun stance is very difficult to deal with. Her unblockables don't seem too OP yet, and her Rifle stance needs to see more use. I think she could be in the top 5. Sin: I don't have a lot of experience with Sin, but against the one good Sin I've faced, his calorie meter barely played a role. He had seemingly endless pressure, and I never knew when to counter. He seems to have a pretty good neutral too. He doesn't seem to have a lot of mix up options tho. Right now I can't see him getting any higher than mid-tier.
StylisH Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 why do u feel ky is only b tier StylisH? IMO the same reason as always: He doesn't shine in any particular area. Ky is very solid, and can do a lot of things, but what does he do really well? The other characters in A and S rank all have abilities that put them where they are (I-No's mixup, Venom's pressure/zoning, Chipp's mobility, Sol's IDGAF rushdown, etc) Don't get me wrong, Ky is good. In the right hands VERY good. I just look at the list a bit differently. The only thing to me that stands out about him are his normals, but again, that's just me.
sagacious Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Leo probably won't get a solid ranking until the arcade players get their hands on him, by which time the game will have been rebalanced. One thing I can say about this game - Compared to AC/+R, it really feels like you have to WORK to get damage with Potemkin. The shift to widescreen and the loss of his hyper armor Force Break definitely play a role in this. neither of those changes would matter if heat knuckle non-extend dropped them at your feet. edit: You can tell there was a deliberate shift in Potemkin's gameplan for Xrd: he's now supposed to drive you to the wall and threaten huge damage off his wall-only combos. This is kind of a worse gameplan than +R's "touch them anywhere on screen for huge damage" but it's also more interesting so I'm glad they made the shift. The changes add up to a lot of reasons he has to work for damage now, none of which have to do with his Force Break: he can't knockdown off j.P anymore (that i know of - maybe CH j.P to j.H to ICPM?), he can't get a mixup off midscreen Heat Knuckle, he can't special cancel 2D and there's no vacuum on 2S, and he gave up his good standing overhead to gain a forward-moving 6K instead. However, he still does Real Soviet Damage in the corner, so making it easier to get the opponent into the corner would be all the buff he'd need. editedit: also removing i-no from the game would help
StylisH Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Upon further thought, I might give Venom a shot. I keep hearing about him but I never see him.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Stylish, I differ greatly. Being a Ky player since the beginning, I can clearly see why he is A ranked in this. Previously, Ky had some of the most gonorrhea inducing matchups because of his shitty damage (MUs vs Slayer and Zato in Reload are still haunting me). In latter games they gave him more tools to compensate this greatly, without having a damage boost but having better ways to oki and reset. In Xrd, Ky is simpler to use once again (Split Shield gives a lot of good tools, though)... but gawd, the damage he does now is ridiculous(ly high) compared to what he used to do in the XX series. Yes, IMO he's good in a lot of aspects (not outstanding, but good), but dealing like 30% of damage with minimal effort (most of the time) and leaving you most of the time in a position where he can oki? Eh... Actually, I wish Ky dealt less damage in the next Xrd iteration and improve his tools.
Domonkazu Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 why Bedman is B ? he has good pokes, range, decent mix up, and dmging combos.
TD Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Bad defense, better pokes have lengthy recovery, movement leaves a bit to be desired, very momentum based (needs an initial hit to get started), task.a can be played around, big hurtbox allowing stronger combo and mixup on him, seals have exploitable weaknesses, pressure is simpler to beat than other characters, etc... Quite a few things hurt him a bit which adds up to something not necessarily crippling... More or less it's like playing with a dented leg. I think his biggest issue is that he can be played around because of his girth. He also lacks proper reward in several situations, and although he has what can be considered above average damage per hit, his combos are very short which reduces damage output.
StylisH Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Stylish, I differ greatly. Being a Ky player since the beginning, I can clearly see why he is A ranked in this. Previously, Ky had some of the most gonorrhea inducing matchups because of his shitty damage (MUs vs Slayer and Zato in Reload are still haunting me). In latter games they gave him more tools to compensate this greatly, without having a damage boost but having better ways to oki and reset. In Xrd, Ky is simpler to use once again (Split Shield gives a lot of good tools, though)... but gawd, the damage he does now is ridiculous(ly high) compared to what he used to do in the XX series. Yes, IMO he's good in a lot of aspects (not outstanding, but good), but dealing like 30% of damage with minimal effort (most of the time) and leaving you most of the time in a position where he can oki? Eh... Actually, I wish Ky dealt less damage in the next Xrd iteration and improve his tools. I can see your point of view, but as I said, I only had an opinion to give, mostly because I don't personally play him. One thing is definitely on the mark, he is doing much better damage now.
Diveman Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I'm still not convinced on Venom being A tier, he's way too fair compared to the BS other characters even on his own tier can do (I-no)
StylisH Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I'm still not convinced on Venom being A tier, he's way too fair compared to the BS other characters even on his own tier can do (I-no) Until you're trapped in the corner eating endless pressure and oki. Not to mention his neutral is top class.
Destin Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I don't think venom feels particularily "fair". He just has low damage overall.
Justice7541 Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 His neutral quality fluctuates a lot based on matchup it seems. Ball setups are varying degrees of viable on different characters and while he has good ground pokes he has some issues with characters with strong air pokes. Also while he has pretty consistent meterless damage and keeps pressure well, he doesn't really peak out very high without pumping RISC first and some characters can make it really hard for him to do that.
Kumlekar Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I see Axl being Pot's worst match up. Worse than Ram and Zato IMO. Axl kinda has the perfect playstyle to counter pot. Its not unwinnable for pot by any stretch, but he has to get creative on how to get in. Was the same thing in AC. Now excuse me while I try to find someone online that isn't playing chipp or millia. *Stop teleporting over my head goddamnit!*
Diveman Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Yeah, well I don't think Venom is terrible, he definitely has some stuff going for him, but 1-. not being able to hit balls at anytime, 2-. no electric balls/DC is huge. And for all the effort you gotta put into him to be at least competitive, might as well play someone like I-no or elphelt and do better.
timmytaplands Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Ramlethal seems like a much better version of Venom to me. Why waste time setting and hitting a pool ball when you can just set Ram's sword projectiles which home in and hit automatically? Ram's st.S has less range but actually leads to damage and knockdowns. In general, her sword normals are huge and hit way harder than Venom's normals. She even has Dark Angel! Why is her version so much better? I don't know.
SoWL Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 She even has Dark Angel! Why is her version so much better? I don't know. Because she has to set it up first, losing her normals in the process?
Destin Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I failed to see how you can just play ino and do better. They emphasize such different play styles... I think venom is probably better in this one, or very close.
StylisH Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I failed to see how you can just play ino and do better. They emphasize such different play styles... I think venom is probably better in this one, or very close. Because people see I-No more than Venom, which in turn makes her a better character in the majority opinion. (Doesn't make sense to me either, but hey it is what it is)
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