SolxBaiken Posted April 29, 2009 Posted April 29, 2009 Ok people, I don't feel like reviewing alot of posts and this match up threads aren't going to start themselves. I have a really good rival at my local arcade that uses Carl and the only character I can come close to beating him with is Jin. So I'm looking for anything and everything on vs match ups!
Onichi Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 It really depends on how your rival plays, otherwise it is hard to give any advice, so I have a similar buddy of mine who is an amazing Carl. His main tactics involve timing Nirvana to attack in between Carl attacks and Carl's Loops. He also makes sure to save supers to either help Nirvana regen, or when your down. Watch out for the Super Gear when your prone, I have yet to find a reliable way outta that one! HAHA The best tactics I can give is to either: A) Hunt Nirvana, preferably in a sneaky manner. 'Oops looks like I keep missing Carl with my Ice Car, how do I keep doing that?' LOL. Carl really is half a character while Nirvana is down, and each move she does and gets hit with during her move takes from her bar. Afterwards, Carl is rather slow and lacks decent moveset to justify his low health. It will probably force your rival into a defensive game, which with Jin being a range whore, isn't too hard to combat. B) Throw anytime you get close to Carl, most of his good moves start with a Throw or end with a Throw loop in the air. So learn to counter-throw, which is easier if you just make sure you throw him first. Worse comes to worse you whiff or you counter his throw. Again I wish I could help more, but I'd need to see your rival play to see his weakness. Best to look for them or patterns he does, so you can predict his movements. Does he always start a match with the same move or movement? Does he favor a special or a super, if so where are the safe zones that are close to Carl? Otherwise know your BnB combos. Heres a video of a decent Carl and Jin player (not the best but those are on nicovideo which i have no account for): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehTNbphywd0 Anyway best of luck!
SolxBaiken Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 Ah, thanks alot, this really helpped me alot. My rival actually plays alot like you describe your friend. His most usual tactic is sandwiching you inbetween Carl and Nirvana, Carl handles lows and knock ups while Nirvana does mids and highs. He gets you stuck in a loop and provides little time for recovery, it's easy to escape with barrier burst but it leaves you vulnerable and if he traps you again you're pretty much F'd. He rarely uses Supers, opting to use his gauge for specials and Nirvana, and you're right about throws, he'll abuse those often, so me learning to counter them is probably my first step to survival. Thanks so much for the help Another problem I'm having with Jin overall is often punishing myself by overuse of his C spam move(leaving me wide open and vulnerable to counter assualts), should I forcus more on combos based around his normal attacks or abuse my D-gauge by using the suped up specials?
kid viper Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 sekkai jin is a move you should never/rarely use. the only useful times to ever use it is after landing jin's overhead or after a move clashes. focus more on combos around his normals. the D version of the air fireball is good to keep pressure on your opponent. the D version of jin's DP is good to use to get carl off of you. Learning to instant block and then following up with D DP or a 2a when sandwiched can get you out of those situations since hitting carl will stop nirvana's action. don't have much carl experience so that's all i can really say. I personally try to get on the offensive asap and not give carl a chance to start his game up but that's just me.
SolxBaiken Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks kid viper, that helps alot, I'll try working on NOT using sekkai jin, it only gets me sometimes because I like to use a normal C move to start combos but tend to over press it trying to do 2-hit C combos (does Jin even have such a thing?), that's how I end up in bad situations with sekkai jin. I'll deffinately try rushing him before he gets Nirvana set up, also is sekkai jin at all safe when your opponet has been encased in ice?
TheSlyMoogle Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Thanks kid viper, that helps alot, I'll try working on NOT using sekkai jin, it only gets me sometimes because I like to use a normal C move to start combos but tend to over press it trying to do 2-hit C combos (does Jin even have such a thing?), that's how I end up in bad situations with sekkai jin. I'll deffinately try rushing him before he gets Nirvana set up, also is sekkai jin at all safe when your opponet has been encased in ice? Depends. For the most part if your opponent is encased in Ice you should be doing something other than sekkai jin. The only time it's useful is to get a nice combo from Jin's overhead. Other than that don't use it. Also another tip if once nirvana activates a move, all except the rush punch with autoguard, you can hit her and stuff the move. More importantly is she actually goes into hit stun. This means you can combo nirvana. I've seen a lot of jin players actually blow 50% gauge to do 5c ice super (632146 + C) and it will almost kill nirvana at full health. I think it takes about 10 seconds or so for nirvana to fully heal, leaving carl with very little to protect himself. Watch out for gear super when that bitch is dead though, it's one of carl's ways to stall for more time for her to heal. Not very much you can do about shitty gear super except not get hit by it. :D For the most part though you completely out range carl even with nirvana and jin's pokes just make it really easy for him to kill that slut anyway. Max range 5c,5d, 2d all good pokes to range carl in this fight. Once you get in just normal pressure strings until you either break that guard or carl fucks up guarding. Poor carl eats damage hard too. KID VIPER: WHY DID YOU STEAL THE PINK OUTFIT FROM ME?! Now i have to play the turquoise blue fit.
kid viper Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 lol i didn't steal the pink~ pink is just too fresh a color pallette in this game XD
TheSlyMoogle Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 lol i didn't steal the pink~ pink is just too fresh a color pallette in this game XD Truth. I guess if we ever play each other we'll have to flip a coin for pink fit.
SolxBaiken Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 Thanks for all the info and advice guys, this seems like a niche match up so I appreciate the help! I'm almost proud to say BB is the first fighter EVER where I actually perfer to have an alt color for my character, but that's only because I like red and Jin's 1st alt color is that XD though the all white one is looking pretty favorable too n.n Well it looks like my best counter measure is abusing my superior range, I've never been about that but anything to win! But it's ok to rush Carl down once Nirvana is out, good stuff! Thanks again everyone!
TheSlyMoogle Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Thanks for all the info and advice guys, this seems like a niche match up so I appreciate the help! I'm almost proud to say BB is the first fighter EVER where I actually perfer to have an alt color for my character, but that's only because I like red and Jin's 1st alt color is that XD though the all white one is looking pretty favorable too n.n Well it looks like my best counter measure is abusing my superior range, I've never been about that but anything to win! But it's ok to rush Carl down once Nirvana is out, good stuff! Thanks again everyone! Actually as long as carl is pretty locked down and doll isn't already in some sort of movement, then you're good to pressure him all day.
Kyle Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Just run away, than use Ice Car to get across the Screen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez_hiEGzoVU&feature=channel_page
LulzWorthy Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 I suppose I should make a contribution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iGTrucJ9nw I hope I'm not useless.
SolxBaiken Posted May 8, 2009 Author Posted May 8, 2009 Just run away, than use Ice Car to get across the Screen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez_hiEGzoVU&feature=channel_page I suppose I should make a contribution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iGTrucJ9nw I hope I'm not useless. You guys linked to the same vid o.o Anyways yes it does seem that abusing your range is a very effective way to counter Carl, but it lacks elegence and relying solely on it will get you in trouble if Carl gets up to you, and it only takes a sec for him to summon Nirvana. Also Unless someone gets you in an ariel loop (like at the end of the 1st round in the vid) I'm highly against using your barrier burst as Carl dosen't have to many devistating combos on his own and doing so too soon can cost you the match (like in the vid).
LulzWorthy Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 You guys linked to the same vid o.o O_O I didn't even notice, ha ha.
Onichi Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 There is something I did find interesting, even though to some it maybe a no brainer, but I didn't know until yesterday that you can throw tech off of Nirvana. So if she's stomping her way to you looking for a hug, you can tell that bitch off lol. It was kinda difficult for me to find out considering the only Carl player worth his salt around here, feels his Carl is now worth working on his loop game.
bbq sauce Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 I'm by no means tops in this game, but, I've been playing a pretty solid carl player and doing failry well against him. - Run away / turtle until you can seperate him from Nee-san/kill her - As said, spaced 5C, 5D, 2D are great go to pokes - There's almost nothing he can do to air fireballs outside his 236B range. He has to deactivate Nee-san when you go airborne or she's going to eat that fireball, with activation start-up she's too slow to punish it and since his mobility is pure ass, if he can't reach you after the roll then you're gold. Just don't be predictable, or you eat the Nee-san dp move. - You can jump in on him pretty liberally, his 6A is ayuss and jB and jC both hit low enough to reach where he's vulnerable, and Nee-san is too slow to anti-air with on reaction to your jump if you're spaced right... Watch out when he has 50 heat, you will hit him but the gear will still come out, and that's not a worthy trade. - Dance around his 5C range, if he wiffs it you can 5D it and set up some pressure. 5C counter hit into 6C might work, but might not have enough range, I haven't tried it. - Not that useful, but, if you make it in throw range, and you think he will try to gear super(nirvana is dead or not near by, he's cornered, etc), if you get that throw, the gear will come out, but wiff through you as you throw him. You still end up blocking it, but the throw does kill a little of his time while you block the gear. Match seems to me to be heavily in Jin's favor.
kid viper Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 I don't see why people want to turtle against Carl as Jin. Jin has the speed and pressure to lock Carl down fast. By turtling, you're just giving Carl the chance to take control of the match which he can do very fast. Get on Carl and stay on him because when Carl is pressured it's really hard for him to get out. Do not just try to zone him out with 5d or projectiles because Carl will just move Nirvana in and counter hit you with 6D since projectile based attacks does not stop her movement. Throw loop although is pretty damaging, it must be done precisely to actually do the damage that Carl players want. Don't panic if he starts a throw loop on you, as Jin has the 3rd largest health with bang so he can take the hit. Just wait for him to mess up (which most Carls will do since they're not Kyaku) and return the favor that he did to you.
bbq sauce Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Hmm, I only turtle because I fear the fuck out of that throw loop, and he since he gets basically off any hit I don't wanna leave it up to chance that they'll fuck up.. even though most can't hold on to it once they get it. I know you know your shit though, so I'll start tryin the pressure game.
ryokoalways Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 From what I can gather from match vids. If Carl is playing with nirvana in the frontline too much, use 5d, and keep your fingers ready for dp. It's a good way to wear nirvana down and carl won't be close enough to do anything major. If Carl is approaching with Nirvana (something like moving her forward while she readies drill hand), create distance. You also have a projectile. Dash backwards and if safe use the c version. Don't be shy about using wave super to take out Nirvana. Carl doesn't do any damage without her. I think that's the basics.
kid viper Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 forgot to mention. if you see carl with 50% meter try to hold onto 50% meter so that when you do start pressuring him you can bait out random gear; and if he does do a random gear, punish with ice wave super for free damage~ otherwise make him waste the meter on a dead angle to get him off of you so he can't do lots of damage.
yukishiro Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Couldn't you just pressure Carl, I mean Carl can't just do anything if he's simply blocking.
ryokoalways Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Unfortunately against a good carl the tradeoff is always in carl's favor. Go watch a few clips of Dio and tell me if you have the balls to just rush him down from half screen away. I know I don't.
SoSaiyan Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Hey guys I just started playing and I need advice on how to get out of that throw loop that carl uses when you're stuck between him and nirvana. Its the one where Nirvana is constantly hitting up and carl throws in a couple hits and grabs. Im able to counter grab him but once I counter grab he just come back and starts up the loop again.
Coren Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Hey guys I just started playing and I need advice on how to get out of that throw loop that carl uses when you're stuck between him and nirvana. Its the one where Nirvana is constantly hitting up and carl throws in a couple hits and grabs. Im able to counter grab him but once I counter grab he just come back and starts up the loop again. 1) Pray they screw up 2) Try to distract them 3) Complain loudly about how a real man would stop the loop and fight you face to face 4) Pause and unpause the game quickly while they're doing inputs 5) Physical violence Teching the throw won't get you out if they know their shit, you need to hope the drop it like a scrub at some point; Jin has no outs for the loop. Also http://dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=386515&postcount=7 go read this a million times (you might even have time to do so while carl throws you around like a broken toy for an hour or so).
BANGER Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Hey guys I just started playing and I need advice on how to get out of that throw loop that carl uses when you're stuck between him and nirvana. Its the one where Nirvana is constantly hitting up and carl throws in a couple hits and grabs. Im able to counter grab him but once I counter grab he just come back and starts up the loop again. As cliche as this sounds, your best defense is prevention :v: Just play defensively. Shoot ice swords. Hit Nirvana to death if you can. etc. etc.
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