Patchi Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Ah shit, my bad dude. Totally misunderstood. -_- It's okay Fizz shit happens xD i'd like a rematchh with your jin sometime :]
Darcius Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I often find Noel to be my second hardest, if not hardest matchup. You gonna get 5a'd son.
Killey Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 You gonna get 5a'd son. Truth. I've only fought a handful of great Noel players and I can't seem to grasp this match up at all. Hope you have good insight and reaction speeds to block her hi/low mix up games since blocking any of those links makes Noel vulnerable to punishes. Otherwise, it seems zoning her is the best way to handle this match up but it requires extra attention to how you are spacing yourself as Jin's typical zoning tools get shut down by Noel if she is spacing herself correctly.
Tomoki Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 What's the match up statistics? Is it 6-4 Jin's favor? Here's all the info I can dig up in regards to Noel's game and some stuff that gets you punished when facing Noel. As mentioned her 6A and 6C are incredibly fast and can stuff your j.B's on reaction which will lead into 6C loop to BnB's for big damage. I got punished a lot because I got predictable with my j.B's and ate a 6A/6C BnB. j.B in general seems really unsafe to do in this match up even for zoning/lock down purposes as she's got 2 anti-airs (6A and 6C) into BnB's and 2 air-to-air moves (j.C and J.B) that will beat it into a simple combo. Her 5A is incredbily fast (5f as mentioned) and is very safe for her to do. It will beat out everything Jin has up close as I think the fatest move has a 7f startup. 5A can be hit confirmed into 6A into her BnB so not something you want to get nailed with. Noel's distance game is incredibly weak and she has no way of zoning you from a far. She doesn't have many good pokes and her Optic Barrel special is pretty easy to avoid but be warned that it can be hit confirmed into her BnB. Jin should have the advantage in the poking game but it really doesn't feel that way to me when Noel can properly distance herself and find ways to counter the pokes altogether. 5D is a good poke if she is air dashing at you but otherwise it feels unsafe in the match as her 3C will go under it (if timed at the same time or earlier then when you do 5D) and nail you for a CH into BnB. She can air dash higher than your 5D and nail you for a CH j.B/j.C into a BnB. The stupid bitch is fast and has a lot of hi/low mix up games that makes blocking her offense tough and most of the block string can be hit confirmed into her BnB. Her 6B overhead is slow but can be chained to 5c/6c,2c,3c so you need to change your block quickly or be quick with the counter hit on her 6B. Blocking her D Spam really shouldn't be an option as you don't want her pushing the guard libra in her favor and it seems like a waste to Barrier Block it when you have counter options. Expert Noel players now have this trick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZN9bRvw7uE) up their sleave. Basically, they can cancel the recovery on her jump drive into her regular drive moves without actually having to go through the animations of initiating her Drive. This is something you have to worry about on really high level play and will be annoying to deal with.This means blocking her j.C on the ground no longer leads to punishes as she can Jump Drive Cancel into the shoulder tackle for cross ups or drive cancel into other options (2,6 D) that can be hit confirmed into her BnB. This adds a lot more to her mix up games making her deadly when you are forced on the defensive. That being said Noel has to get in close to deal the brunt of her damage and really relies on doing set ups to land that BnB. Once again Fubuki's seem to be your friend in this match up as it's a faster Anti-Air tactic then 5D and C/D Fubuki's can punish over committed rush ins. Noel's Alpha Counter is useful as it will put her behind you and can be used to hit confirm into 6A BnB. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7a5GUQe6pI Even Buppa had a lot of difficulties handling Noel and while this match is old it shows a lot of tactics he used for Noel. He totally changed up his gameplay by the 2nd/3rd match and it saw more success. Poking with 5C->5D and in general he was trying to out zone her but Noel had a lot of means of getting in close to apply her game. The hi/low/throw mix ups are particularly tough to deal with and he got man handled by them in the final round but did make a nice come back. R-1 used Noel's Drive to counter Buppa's late burst and it nailed him the victory. Overall, it seems Buppa used IB to punish Noel's rush ins but not all of us can IB like Buppa so I'm hoping for other options. I don't know what else to do against a top notch Noel player. Forgive me for asking but What the HELL was THAT?! Youtube video 41 secs in, I've never seen that before!? It went right through His 5C!
Tomoki Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 her DA Kinda Scary..Its like Carls dash thing...But good..
Zlipus Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 This fight is really getting to me, since a lot of people play noel now they just spam her D moves, but for the life of me i cannot find a time to counter it, literally everything i've tried results in it whiffing due to invincibiltiy frames. Or they just do the back out one and come back in to smash my face. I've tried IBing and using the A dp but the over head just either counters me cause i did it too late or it whiffs. Tips!
BANGER Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 grab her >_> Won't it whiff through the invincibility frames? I think I remember trying that. I've had best success countering drive spamming Noels with C Gale and 5D from afar. It's a great opportunity for a counter hit, really.
excelence Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 It only has invincibility frame for hits but not grab, and if the Noel know what she's doing, her 5d will go through your 5d, the reason A Blizzard fail is, because it has 8 start up frame and no Invul on it edit: forgot to add, iirc u don't need to ib her drive string, just normal block to counter it with b Blizzard/C Gale
Killey Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 For most Noel D Spammers C Fubuki will do just fine and will counter hit them with no issues. Smarter Noel player will use the shoulder tackle to bait C Fubuki and CH it or mix up your input and out comes C Ice Car -_-. You can still tag the shoulder tackle if you time C Fubuki late. I believe C Fubuki will also get beat by Flash Kick/Spring Raid so you have to be careful with it's use. Don't even bother trying to C Fubuki if they do a close j.D as Flash Kick is coming out next and C Fubuki rarely if ever beats it out. Just block it and punish as it leaves Noel open for punishment. If they are spamming D from a distance aways 5D will beat it but as I said before the invincibility frames of Noel's 5D will go through and CH your 5D. So you don't use 5D as zoning but you use it in reaction to CH it. Putting scrub Noel tactics aside I don't think this match up relies too heavily on zoning as I initially thought. You can zone if you want but you have to be more careful then usual with your zoning as Noel has multiple ways to defeat Jin's zoning game. I wouldn't rely on Jin's aerial game as much as Noel beats Jin air-to-air with j.A or j.B with being 6f and 7f start up while Jin's j.A is 7f start up. j.B is still good but requires more precise position to avoid air beats or anti-air 6A/6C. The fact is Noel can poke you with 5A spam or j.A and lead into combos for good damage. The prororation isn't as bad as you think and after a couple you are hurting really bad. You'll have a harder time frame trapping Noel as her 5A is 5f start up and is easy to spam to poke you out of your tricks. I don't know...despite her overall advantages in air-to-air and her ability to out prioritize you it doesn't feel like your helpless. Typical Jin tactics seem to carry me through against her. You just have to be more precise in her you are spacing yourself against her.
RushDownScrub Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Could you 6A her assault through? Most annoying move in her arsenal and I have a really hard time since Jin doesn't have command grab like Bang for her to rush in to. I usually end up wasting heat on DP since I almost guarantee a hit with it with reaction. As for throwing her most Noel's are looking for that since they can go for a low, or immediately into Drive after recovery from break and take another chunk of health for free unless she forgets what to do in which case feel free to combo her to death in response. From what I can tell aerial ice sword is a good way to keep her on the ground, and is a good answer to her rushing since she has to jump it or block it.
DS-D Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 i agree, anytime she starts a drive, i use B aerial ice swords. problem is, i'm not sure what to do after that, combo-wise. and 623D is a neat alternative to bursting on the ground when the pressure is on. just make sure it doesn't miss. her drive is the most awful thing. to think they buffed it for CS >_<. expect more drive abuse from noel in the future =P
jinkisaragisan Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 i think jin D is good against her too and his j.D move is good aginst her too
Lionheart Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 her 3c goes under 623D, so dont rely on it too much.
DC Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Why are you guys talking about Noel drive spammers? DP goes through everything. Good Noel players don't use drive outside of combos, except for 2d and the occasional 5d to go through projectiles. 2d is easy to block on reaction, or who knows maybe I've just seen that move so many times I can't get hit by it anymore lol. I still think Jin wrecks this matchup. When he jump cancels it puts him in Noel's dead angle (not counter assault, lol) Right above her head. She has no (fast enough) attacks that can hit there. Who knows maybe that's just me though. Any Jin that can keep up pressure without getting to repetitive is really annoying to play. Also his stupid resets. Mashing out of ice is the stupidest feature in the game, enjoy losing that in CS. But hey don't worry, we lost everything. Oh and whatever you do, don't miss a DP... you'll eat 4.5k meterless. :3
BANGER Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Mashing out of ice is the stupidest feature in the game, enjoy losing that in CS. But hey don't worry, we lost everything. I actually like ice autobreaking. It's made Jin play more interesting to me. As for Noel, my condolences.
Airyaxe Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Yeah, I prefer the ice autobreaking. My opponents can finally stop complaining about wiggling out of the ice now. I don't rely on black beat ice break combos. And, you guys didn't lose R-1.
Moy_X7 Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I'm also glad that they removed the "wiggle your way out of the freeze state", there's a lot of people out there who rely heavily on this stupid gimmick.
smooshman Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 my friend just does 3c 22c until I want to kill something because it goes through J-anything, DP's will miss, and effectively you have to use 2b or 3c because 2c is slow. it pisses me off so much. I try it barrier and punish with 2D however... he just does 3c and knocks me over. when ever I can go for standing attacks he can beat me out with... anything, because anything vs. Jin's 5C anything will win. though I've gotten better at beating the shit out of him
Lionheart Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 noel 6c rapes jin's air approach. You know this DC, lol IMO the only reason jin has the ability to jc so many things is so he can have a have decent overhead possibility
lxMetalSonicxl Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 LMAO! 3C from Noel is a really punishable move. You can block it and do a 5C crouching combo easy. Next, you can DP through pretty much anything in her drive. Also, you can just throw out ice blades whenever she uses 6A or 6C for a nice counter hit combo. Combine all this from your standard pressure with Jin that she doesn't really have an answer to besides 5A, and you get a really easy matchup. Noel relies on too much fake pressure that you can just block through. Your 2A will beat out a lot of her ground tools. Your j.A will beat out some of her air approaches. The only thing you have to watch out for is a baited dp. But you don't need to use that much in this matchup.
DC Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 LMAO! 3C from Noel is a really punishable move. You can block it and do a 5C crouching combo easy. Yes... if you're going to complain about anything it better not be 3c. Next, you can DP through pretty much anything in her drive. This is why we don't use drive outside of combos. :3 Very rarely, I should say. Also, you can just throw out ice blades whenever she uses 6A or 6C for a nice counter hit combo. Can't agree with this, the second hit of 6c will either kill your ice block and CH you, or we'll get CH... it's really situational so I wouldn't rely on that. Noel relies on too much fake pressure that you can just block through. Yes, a lot of people don't realize this, but Noel doesn't have many legit blockstrings. Lots of holes and we pretty much rely on taking risks to hit you. The general rule of thumb: If you're taking damage from Noel, the initial hit of her combo was likely something extremely punishable.
smooshman Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 LMAO! 3C from Noel is a really punishable move. I know... T_T but my reflexes are rubbish (actually my entire defense is shit). so by the time I've confirmed that I've successfully blocked and prepare for a 5C the opponent can attack again.
Recommended Posts