InspectorOda Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 First of all, it's gotta be done right when curse starts, which means the dive will never hit. Secondly, it uses all the curse meter so you can't end with recurse. Recurse >>>>>>>>>>> Damage unless it's a sure kill. Finally, Arakune has much safer and effective combos during curse that do more damage while starting and ending with a recurse.
Skye Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 First of all, it's gotta be done right when curse starts, which means the dive will never hit. That's not true at all, You can do the combo provided you have a decent curse amount. I don't recall saying it MUST be done exactly when curse starts, and it's not nice to assume so, especially since it apparently won't work that way. Secondly, it uses all the curse meter so you can't end with recurse. So that apparently prevents it from being useful completely, you recurse in the middle of the combo, so what's the huge deal? Recurse >>>>>>>>>>> Damage unless it's a sure kill. Finally, Arakune has much safer and effective combos during curse that do more damage while starting and ending with a recurse. I don't find his 2A or 6A setups to be very safe, since any character's 5A spam shuts that down completely (I know from experience), dive is safer as on block you can still escape, and proper use of bugs prevent punishing. j2A setup (to 5B) is a much, much harder setup than this. Finally, why bash on a legit combo, what happens once you recurse your opponent in all these other combos, just look at them? Perhaps this combo may be of some use then. There aren't a lot, if any combos in this thread that are listed to work with Curse on. Sorry for trying to contribute something. The combo isn't perfect, but it's a combo, that deals formidable damage, and matches a criteria that barely any combos meet.
PhantomX Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 The 2A > 5B can't be jab spammed against, only the 2A > 6B (if you attempt it).
Skye Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 The 2A > 5B can't be jab spammed against, only the 2A > 6B (if you attempt it). Not from my experience. If 5A can't beat it, 2A makes for a good alternative--at least against me.
PhantomX Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 If your 2A connects the 5B is guaranteed to connect if you are close enough. It's a legitimate combo so they can't jab you out of it. I will agree that random jab spam is annoying, though, lol.
Armor Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 I ran into a Bang that just kept jumping at me jabbing, it seemed to be effective at first, but I beat him in the end. O_o
Matt Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 I ran into a Bang that just kept jumping at me jabbing, it seemed to be effective at first, but I beat him in the end. O_o Dude, a comment like this belongs in the general discussion thread. O_o
kousaka Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 this is the combo thread btw~ but you can 5C bang out of it and prolly jA/j6a at appropriate points.. 2B is also possible
Matt Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Alright I guess I couldn't see how this related to combo discussion, but now you have shown me the error of my ways. To add to what you said Kousaka... you can also join Bang in the air and do a j2A. When it connects you can cancel it into 5D (it's like j2A>5B but you press B and D at the same time to cancel it to 5D) to a triple dive loop and more for massive damage! Also, you can do an airthrow> land> 5D> triple dive loop> C loop> recurse> massive damage part two.
InspectorOda Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 @Skye You're right on the fact that it doesn't need to be started right when curse starts. It didn't register in my mind that a recurse was midway through the combo, I must be getting blind or something. Guess that means you should ignore the part about running out of curse meter at the end of the combo also. I guess that's what I get for posting at 3:00 in the morning while writing an essay. Anyways, I wasn't bashing it, I was just criticizing it. The fact that I numbered it was actually because I was doing that in my essay, so I kind of transfered it over here. Sorry if it sounded provocative, that wasn't the intent... or was it? Now that I am thinking straight though, I shall contribute more criticism and tips. Instead of releasing the D bug, you could hold down D and continue with one more repetition of Cloops ending in another recurse. Damage will be about the same, though slightly less, but you get full curse out of it. Arakune's pressure during curse almost always yields 5k+ damage combos, but dives usually aren't the best way to get it since the opponent will already be on the defensive, so they will generally be much to slow against a good player. And if it's predicted you'll be eating an air throw. On block you'll have to teleport away or cross up, which if predicted can be punished even with CB bugs ready. If you're Japanese and never miss a Dive Cancel, go ahead and spam dives though. Best combo starters that are also the best ways for pressuring up close while curse is on are 3AA, 2B, 6A only if you've trained your opponent into blocking, instant jA or jC, or Air Dash Cancel jB (Don't try this again on block unless you wanna be killed, but that goes for its general precurse usage too doesn't it?). TK j214C instant crossup into CB bug might as well be called an unblockable as well, but most opponents will be blocking long enough for you to pull off that stunt if they're desperate and cursed. Lastly, baiting attacks and getting a hit with CB bugs or a Counter C bug gives Godly damage. {3AA > C bug > 6A > 2B x N} is an amazing blockstring for non barrier users and is what you should try to be using most of the time during curse, or some other safe block string. All combo starters above lead into Cloop with recurse, and ones that do not curse at the beginning of the combo like 2B or instant jA/jC will be too fast for the opponent to react to most of the time. The actual combos should be in this thread somewhere if you don't know them. In fact, all of this info should be, but since I don't wanna waste this huge post I'm gonna put it up anyways. Basically, these should be safe pressure options. In my mind Dives are more of a gimmick to use rarely during curse, but maybe that's because I play an insta-blocking beast all the time. tl:dr? Too bad, I needed something to do other than more essays.
PhantomX Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 You could always j2C on dive block, assuming you're keeping them locked down with bugs.
InspectorOda Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I used to abuse that until I realized I was getting farther away from them, and I usually play against a Litchi and v-13. I've been punished for doing that several times against Ragna, Jin and Hakumen. Stupid Yukikaze countering a bee that came from behind. Dunno if any other characters can punish without insta-block and invincibility frames. I only j2C away when I'm desperate now. I don't like moving back more though after the dive, but if I tele forward I just get killed because the C bug delay isn't over yet. Darn it I need to learn to edit my posts faster.
PhantomX Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I don't mind space against Litchi. Makes me safer from her DP. V-13 is just gay... always.
Skye Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 tl:dr? Too bad, I needed something to do other than more essays. Okay, it's good we came to terms. Your pressure inputs were well noted. <3
Abstract Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 In my mind Dives are more of a gimmick to use rarely during curse, but maybe that's because I play an insta-blocking beast all the time. Naah. The dives are really really nasty. Especially post curse where they grant easy setups into 6C loops. Or ground pressure. They've been nerfed in BBCS for a damn good reason. You just have to be able to dive cancel. It's really not that hard people. Come on.
PhantomX Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Dive canceling properly is super hard online, though, haha. I did manage to do my first dive cancel into 2C yesterday though. Made me happy.
Abstract Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 If you do land a very deep jB(2)>5b(1-2)>5d will hit and u can do the combo as usual. A brief note, I find the damage on this makes it not so worthwhile. And that instead it's better to use the crumble from 5D run teleport/jump crossups instead.
Skye Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 You just have to be able to dive cancel. It's really not that hard people. Come on. I went into training mode and simply attempted the dive cancel into a curse combo. I've tried literally over 1000 times and only succeeded once. The dive cancel isn't THAT hard, but don't expect to earnestly follow up from one unless you've mastered it. I've tried so many times, I know the mechanics behind how it works.
PhantomX Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 My issues is really just getting the dive to cancel into 5B, actually doing the combo into curse isn't the issue for me. When you can start telling/feeling if you did the dive cancel correctly, you'll be able to do the rest (the only way I can really do it by feel b/c if I try to do it on reaction I fail pretty much every time :\) You can at least work on doing it on counter hits. That one is pretty easy to do, and it's simple to do even online.
InspectorOda Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 But I never said I couldn't Dive Cancel. It's just that after a Dive Cancel, there really aren't many options to what you can do next. Almost always you'll want follow up with a jump on block, and since most of the people I play Insta-Block the whole chain, I get an Air Throw to the face which leads to losing curse even when I tech it. By the way, I just learned today that you could Dive Cancel into Throw. How strange, too bad it's useless.
Skye Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 My main issue was knowing exactly when I did it right. I successfully Dive Canceled more than half the accumulated attempts, but to react on successive attempt was almost impossible, because even when I had the feeling of success, I often didn't and vise versa. I ended up muscle memorying the inputs and doing it even upon failure, that's how I actually did it right.
Abstract Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 But I never said I couldn't Dive Cancel. It's just that after a Dive Cancel, there really aren't many options to what you can do next. Almost always you'll want follow up with a jump on block That's your problem right there. Do things that aren't jump. If you've got curse, you can use the bugs to pull them back in and maintain pressure. Unless you miss your dive cancel into 5B on block because you're a boob. C bug is great for stuffing those attempts to jump up and airthrow. B Bug can work too, but it pushes them back, but that should put them in a great place for 2D. Or you could just do what Hima does, and 2D. That being said, 3AA 6A (A bug blocked) (6A blocked) to jA/2B is probably your nastiest pressure setup still.
Skye Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 Skye I must say your combo is very creative and sounds like a good combo to do. I'll post it, but I suggest that if you wish to play more competitively you should try this combo out because it does more damage and does not need 50% heat to be done: j2A>release 3A>5B bugs> C loops x1-4> recurse Oh, but I do, but there's nothing wrong with variety. I have a video of the J2C > RC > J236C for demonstration.
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