Wake Up Reversal

[GSD-SPL]

Niiiice!

Thats exactly what happens, in an online game, no one respects a downed Sol on wakeup, how can anyone do reversals on wakeup with lag frames in between?

Then comes a lot of Millias, I-Nos, Zatos kicking your ass because you can't wake up right.

When will this "patch 1.1" come to consoles?

 Simply having a DP does not entitle a character to be immune to all oki across the board.

[Kumlekar]

Now that we agree on reversal windows needing to be bigger. They should also remove IB and adjust all frame data as if you we're IB'ing everything. It just fucks up newbies because they can't escape pressure just because they didn't spend their weekend grinding p.mode. Why should such a fundamental thing have such a execution barrier? It just seems like a way of hiding the mindgames seen at higher level play from new players. Is this a good thing?

uh, what?  ib is a prediction mechanic, not an execution barrier...

[Vowtz]

Those characters don't respect your wake up because they don't have to respect it. Most of their oki is reversal safe.

Simply having a DP does not entitle a character to be immune to all oki across the board.

Very true, but still it helps a lot, adding another factor.

Try reversal dragon punch with 5f lag, it is a nightmare. I guess they decided to improve the input buffer mostly because of online.

[Moy_X7]

Very true, but still it helps a lot, adding another factor.

Try reversal dragon punch with 5f lag, it is a nightmare. I guess they decided to improve the input buffer mostly because of online.

 

Tee-hee

 

An extended buffer window is a very welcome addition nonetheless.

[Dude Butts]

Thats exactly what happens, in an online game, 

 

 

 

stopped reading

[Dude Butts]

input buffers, for people who want to be better but can't be bothered to get better™

 

i will never understand why people who don't see the fun in competing in a battle of wits and skill want to play fighting games at all.  If showing off who can operate their character better and more precisely isn't fun to you, why not just play any other competitive game, or another fighting game that better suits you?  Why do you have to ruin it for the rest of us who have been here?

[SquizzleBopped]

Ya man. Casuals are ruining our fighting games. What is this Smash 1.1 Kapparino. Even with the new patch and increased input buffer this doesn't ruin your game dudebutts, relax you can still test your "skills and wits" nothing have been taken from you.

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[Dude Butts]

Ya man. Casuals are ruining our fighting games. What is this Smash 1.1 Kapparino. Even with the new patch and increased input buffer this doesn't ruin your game dudebutts, relax you can still test your "skills and wits" nothing have been taken from you.

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that's an interesting assertion but I can't help but notice you don't offer a single shred of evidence to support it

[NecroTheReaper]

Neither are you, stop your self stroking egotism.

[SquizzleBopped]

How do you want me to offer evidence to help you feel better about the direction the game is taking? It's your opinion and your issue toward the evolution of fighting games. Just like its my opinion that this argument and the following patch in no way lessens the value being apart of the community that we are, fighting game players.

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[Dude Butts]

How do you want me to offer evidence to help you feel better about the direction the game is taking? It's your opinion and your issue toward the evolution of fighting games. Just like its my opinion that this argument and the following patch in no way lessens the value being apart of the community that we are, fighting game players.

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The games are consistently chasing the bottom line, and the ignorant whining of new players like yourself can and have served to outweigh the praise of difficult and rewarding mechanics by devoted players.  This is a franchise that has barely survived, but due to its merits in conjunction with people who enjoy difficulty, it has stood the test of time.  

The contrasts between Xrd and the previous versions are best showcased by prevailing attitudes towards the game, which has been available a whole three months.  We're already kinda bored with it and waiting for the next version.  In my case, I would rather just keep playing +r.  This does not spell good things for the direction the game is taking.  This is what makes it worth listening to the voice of experience instead of fighting to legitimize your lack of ability.  

 

The core of the reversal buffer argument has not evolved from "I can't do it, I don't think I should have to learn how" vs. "learn how, and you'll likely learn why it's better this way along the road"

[NecroTheReaper]

That is the true elitist way. Stop acting like you're better than new people, otherwise GG will truly die because no one new will ever wanna play. A 2f barrier for wakeup reversals, especially for characters that rely on maybe a half circle or two for a super, is not something that you can look at someone and be "you're a terrible scrub, gtfo".

Coming from BB, should I claim I'm the best Relius player because I have the execution to do IAD combos consistently? He'll no, cuz there's more to the game than simple execution.

[Dude Butts]

That is the true elitist way. Stop acting like you're better than new people, otherwise GG will truly die because no one new will ever wanna play. A 2f barrier for wakeup reversals, especially for characters that rely on maybe a half circle or two for a super, is not something that you can look at someone and be "you're a terrible scrub, gtfo".

Coming from BB, should I claim I'm the best Relius player because I have the execution to do IAD combos consistently? He'll no, cuz there's more to the game than simple execution.

 

First, BB is a different game.  Second, maybe you shouldn't claim you're the best relius player, but learning to utilize the mechanics available to you more accurately and dynamically should (and probably will) certainly give you a leg up over the competitor who has not.  Again, it's about a balance of wits and skill.  You can try to emphasize one to diminish the other, but then you're effectively making a different game.

[D.R.F.]

Wait a minute... what's wrong with 2 frame buffers again? I understand mash to tech not being better than hold to tech... but what is wrong with a 2frame window?

[Dude Butts]

if you're asking me, I think 2 frames is appropriate but would prefer just-frame execution for reversals in guilty gear

[NecroTheReaper]

I'm just saying I don't like how he thinks them making it more lenient is going to ruin the entire competitiveness of the game because now reversals become a valid and concerning wakeup option for more people. I can still safe jump the reversal, or go with a reversal safe Oki, or whatever will beat the specific reversal option. I think a strategy game requires more thought and less repetition than a rhythm game after all, which the decisions should matter more than execution.

[Dude Butts]

I'm just saying I don't like how he thinks them making it more lenient is going to ruin the entire competitiveness 

 

not the competitiveness, but it will certainly change how the game is played, and it will change it further from the direction that kept people playing a niche product for 15 years.  I just don't think you understand that guilty gear's offense and defense games were designed to dissuade the use of reversals over the many other defensive options, especially by people who come from other fighting games where reversals are the only real option you have in some cases.  It will change how the game is played.

[NecroTheReaper]

Then you're just encouraging them to use the simpler BS on wakeup. Either way, you'll see SOME defensive mechanic being abused if it's easier, and I'd rather it be something other than PRS with high-low. I like BS, as good as it is I see it used less than it should, but if not dps it'll revolve around 2 button BS

[Sashi]

Why are you guys still getting trolled by Dude Butts? It's been months already.

[Dude Butts]

hi-lo is not really PRS because it can be reacted to.  Backdashes kill most hi-low oki and instant block and FD can be used to help create space.  Reversals should be a part of the game and no doubt some people have little problem performing them, but in so doing they are demonstrating proficiency.  I think guilty gear has traditionally been a game that has attracted players and spectators based on a larger separation of skill (maybe prohibitively so to some) and I obviously think it has been better for it.  I'm not trolling, I honestly want the game to be good and I'm doing my best to articulate how to best achieve that.  I also want more players to be good, and I'm trying to help share a frame of mind that will excite more people to get there while keeping the game from bending to the will of the uninitiated masses.

[SquizzleBopped]

Are you trolling again by saying you're not trolling. That's fucking meta dude.

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[D.R.F.]

I mean I don't like big ol' windows because I don't want morons being rewarded for mashing like morons on my oki. If you are gonna disrespect, you gotta have thought placed in it. And I play Sol for Christ's sake. I have no problem in having to DP in a 2 frame window (3-4frame window is no skin off my bones though, as long as im not play sf4)

[4r5]

I like the shit that Dude Butts got coming out his ass.

I don't need to post cause his opinion mirrors mine.

[NecroTheReaper]

If every character that had a reversal were all given 623 inputs, I'd have absolutely no issue with the reversal windows. But half circles in 2 frames are painful.

[Icekin]

input buffers, for people who want to be better but can't be bothered to get better™

 

i will never understand why people who don't see the fun in competing in a battle of wits and skill want to play fighting games at all.  If showing off who can operate their character better and more precisely isn't fun to you, why not just play any other competitive game, or another fighting game that better suits you?  Why do you have to ruin it for the rest of us who have been here?

 

If you can't use the tools at your disposal even if you make the correct read, that's hardly a battle of "wits", and becomes a silly execution barrier. Just as inputs can be too easy, they can be too hard as well. They're going for a more lenient window now.

 

If you can already deal with the current inputs, then I really don't know what you're so annoyed by, or afraid of. That people will be able to do what they want to do? That more players will pick up the game since it's easier to play? Is the game going to change at all for players who could already deal with 2f buffers? I don't think so, so what's the problem?