[CT] Haku-men Videos & Discussion

[ryokoalways]

If you are thinking of mugen at all, practicality goes out the window. Again, the only time you'd mugen is as a last ditch effort to make some kind of miracle happen, that or you are just screwing around. I guarantee you under normal circumstances no one would try to mugen. There are too many requirements that needs to be met for mugen to even be considered. It's the same reason why I wouldn't use 75% tension on jam's launch super. Sure the 150% prorate is lawlz funny, but why the hell would I ever do that?

[MisoSowee]

If you are thinking of mugen at all, practicality goes out the window.

Again, the only time you'd mugen is as a last ditch effort to make some kind of miracle happen, that or you are just screwing around.

I guarantee you under normal circumstances no one would try to mugen. There are too many requirements that needs to be met for mugen to even be considered.

It's the same reason why I wouldn't use 75% tension on jam's launch super. Sure the 150% prorate is lawlz funny, but why the hell would I ever do that?

read 4r5's post on the last page. He's talking about his new "strategy" where he just gets 8 stars, lands a 6b counter hit into mugen-combo.

and then we started discussing burst baiting. :D

[4r5]

If you ask me, practicality is over as soon as you pick Hakumen.

[ryokoalways]

Yes I read it already. But my point stands. Let me put it more clearly. When would Mugen be useful? When you opponent has nearly full life. If your opponent does not have full life, which is likely the case, then why would you mugen? Hakumen has no problem dishing out 7k with 8 magatamas, or significantly more damage with 2 combos that total to 8 magatams. Which means you are probably getting manhandled if you have 8 magatama and he has nearly full life. So there is only one likely scenario for mugen, when you need to pull a miracle out of your ass. Regarding you trying to use 4r5's post as a counter point, here is my thought on that: You are hakumen. Your offensive options are already crap compare to the rest of the cast. Are you going to further limit yourself into looking for the elusive 6b counter hit when you have 8 magatama. No of course not, because god knows that will never happen. Now if all the stars align and you somehow do get the counter hit 6b, what do you do? well, if they have anywhere between 40-70% hp, you would never mugen because you can get much better/safe damage return by just burning 4-5 of your 8 magatamas on one combo, and work on the follow up with 4 more magatamas. So basically again, unless you are getting manhandled, there is no reason to mugen If you are so dead set on using mugen, then here is the most likely case: People tend to eat the first combo from hakumen, then burst the second so they can eat a third one instead of dying to the second. So you can almost bet that when they have 30-40%hp, they will burst you. What you want to do then is to 6d burst and go into mugen. Is it practical? hell no, you can just kill them outright if you have 8 magatamas, why bother going into mugen? So what am I trying to say? 6d (or 6b, or whatever) mugen combo is an all-in play that you only use when you are 100% out of all other options and you need to go for the kill immediately (or force them to Burst, one or the other). It has no other practical use. As for baiting burst, go to training mode with a friend and see how well you do baiting burst through out that combo. There are at least 4-5 holes where you cannot defend against burst. All the kishuu, tsubaki, hotaru are safe to burst, among others.

[MisoSowee]

Yes I read it already. But my point stands. Let me put it more clearly.

When would Mugen be useful? When you opponent has nearly full life.

If your opponent does not have full life, which is likely the case, then why would you mugen? Hakumen has no problem dishing out 7k with 8 magatamas, or significantly more damage with 2 combos that total to 8 magatams. Which means you are probably getting manhandled if you have 8 magatama and he has nearly full life.

So there is only one likely scenario for mugen, when you need to pull a miracle out of your ass.

Regarding you trying to use 4r5's post as a counter point, here is my thought on that:

You are hakumen. Your offensive options are already crap compare to the rest of the cast. Are you going to further limit yourself into looking for the elusive 6b counter hit when you have 8 magatama. No of course not, because god knows that will never happen.

Now if all the stars align and you somehow do get the counter hit 6b, what do you do? well, if they have anywhere between 40-70% hp, you would never mugen because you can get much better/safe damage return by just burning 4-5 of your 8 magatamas on one combo, and work on the follow up with 4 more magatamas. So basically again, unless you are getting manhandled, there is no reason to mugen

If you are so dead set on using mugen, then here is the most likely case:

People tend to eat the first combo from hakumen, then burst the second so they can eat a third one instead of dying to the second. So you can almost bet that when they have 30-40%hp, they will burst you. What you want to do then is to 6d burst and go into mugen. Is it practical? hell no, you can just kill them outright if you have 8 magatamas, why bother going into mugen?

So what am I trying to say? 6d (or 6b, or whatever) mugen combo is an all-in play that you only use when you are 100% out of all other options and you need to go for the kill immediately (or force them to Burst, one or the other). It has no other practical use.

As for baiting burst, go to training mode with a friend and see how well you do baiting burst through out that combo. There are at least 4-5 holes where you cannot defend against burst. All the kishuu, tsubaki, hotaru are safe to burst, among others.

I think he knows that, i think we ALL know that. 4r5 is just kinda throwin it out, and then we just started discussing burst baits.

[ryokoalways]

I am addressing you, not 4r5. I was under the impression you are still trying to actually work mugen into your game because you are talking about strategies with mugen, which I believe is a major no-no.

[MisoSowee]

Why? I started into the conversation directly when they started discussing burst baiting. o_O

[ryokoalways]

You are missing my point. I got the impression that you are trying to focus too much on mugen because you were trying to debunk my argument against mugen with your prior post, which is why I was trying to provide a more convincing argument against it. I'm not saying you cannot have a discussion abotu mugen. Hell, if you ever break it out in a match, put it on youtube or something and let me awe at it. But you should never put a lot of emphasis on mugen. If I am mistaken then I apologize, but again, please make sure you understand the point I'm trying to get across.

[MisoSowee]

You are missing my point.

I got the impression that you are trying to focus too much on mugen because you were trying to debunk my argument against mugen with your prior post, which is why I was trying to provide a more convincing argument against it. I'm not saying you cannot have a discussion abotu mugen. Hell, if you ever break it out in a match, put it on youtube or something and let me awe at it. But you should never put a lot of emphasis on mugen.

If I am mistaken then I apologize, but again, please make sure you understand the point I'm trying to get across.

No no no i'm not trying to say mugen is a good thing. I'm just discussing it within the boundaries of 4r5's situation. I NEVER use Mugen unless it's just a random player match and i do it for the lulz. Your argument against mugen is totally fine and makes sense. I'm not trying to debunk it :[

[Tage*Proto]

I agree with Ryoko, not the part about arguing with miso lol, but about the uses of Mugen. Honestly, it's already hard as hell to manage magatama correctly, I can't see a reason to burn 8 to activate Mugen when you can spend 4, probably get bursted on anyway, but atleast you keep 4. I'm not gonna lie...I really, really wish there was a legitimate setup for Mugen...that shit is so cool, but hey...we gotta work with what we got :/.

[MisoSowee]

I think they need to change mugen in some way... like you can turn it on and off but it's able to be turned on and off within the combo. (besides the initial boot) either that or make some kind of weird effect where the moves can link into each other like CRAZILYas in each move will chain into itself and others infinitely, so it's viable to bait a burst. Of course that'd be relatively OP but.... meh :D

[ryokoalways]

Mugen will totally be applicable if it activated like blood kain/furinkazan.

[MisoSowee]

Mugen will totally be applicable if it activated like blood kain/furinkazan.

But man that'd be like, ridiculously crazy. If it was permanent than his pressure would absolutely be the best (there are like no holes lol) maybe if they changed his star meter to hold two stocks of 8 stars, and mugen costed 16 stars for permanent? that'd be nice. cuz i know blood kain and fu-rin-kazan allow for some ridiculous combos o_O

[ryokoalways]

No, not permanent. I'm talking about able to use it as a reversal. Right now you have additional frames after activation where you can get nailed. Remove those additional frames (so basically the move should be N number of frames +0) and mugen becomes totally applicable because now you have significantly more locations where you can use it (ie, against any long recovery moves)

[MisoSowee]

No, not permanent. I'm talking about able to use it as a reversal. Right now you have additional frames after activation where you can get nailed. Remove those additional frames (so basically the move should be N number of frames +0) and mugen becomes totally applicable because now you have significantly more locations where you can use it (ie, against any long recovery moves)

Oh. But permanent IS a nice idea don't cha think?

Also what i'd like is that you can turn it off and how many stars you have left, you keep half of them or something. or N-1. That'd be useful if they burst :D

But as a balance there's recovery to turning it off so it's only useful after a burst xD (unless they have a long range super :|

[Luisthepanda]

But man that'd be like, ridiculously crazy. If it was permanent than his pressure would absolutely be the best (there are like no holes lol)

There would be holes, Ive had people Shoryuken me while I was doing 214B > 41236C

[Spark]

You can be DPed in between the hits on 214B and 41236C.

[MadRhetoric]

I thought that it would be nice if mugen worked like furinkazan, as in you unlocked gates by landing counters and once you had them all unlocked + 8 stars you could activate mugen and you were in that mode for the rest of the round. But hell even having an activation like blood kain would make it at least useable rather than total garbage. I also thought of a few other things that would make it useable. Like your stars don't start draining until you use a special after activating it, or while in mugen mode you get a free second burst.

[SimpleKiss]

I agree with Ryoko, not the part about arguing with miso lol, but about the uses of Mugen. Honestly, it's already hard as hell to manage magatama correctly, I can't see a reason to burn 8 to activate Mugen when you can spend 4, probably get bursted on anyway, but atleast you keep 4.

I'm not gonna lie...I really, really wish there was a legitimate setup for Mugen...that shit is so cool, but hey...we gotta work with what we got :/.

isn't there a video floating around of a legit setup off 6D? he used it on a bang player.

I can see it coming in handy against arakune or Nyu. Since the good ones tend to burst early.

So, say you get in early on arakune because he makes a mistake or w/e so he bursts at 90% life (Something Good Arakunes *will* do at times.) Then you end up having to sit back but you get a 6B (or a 6D) CH. You can pretty much mugen and end the round there. So I think that is something that could conceivably happen in a match against Nyu or Arakune.

[Luisthepanda]

Well if you get in on arakune or v13 early, chances are you only have a star or two and no good player is gonna burst at 90-100% if you only have 2-3 stars.

[ryokoalways]

Nevermind everything I said before. Just make mugen 100% unburstable (as in if you are hit during mugen you cannot burst). Totally balanced :o

[SimpleKiss]

Well if you get in on arakune or v13 early, chances are you only have a star or two and no good player is gonna burst at 90-100% if you only have 2-3 stars.

Hakumen can actually do some damage with 2 stars, not great, but good. And I didn't necessarily mean "early in the round" so much as "early in life."

Say that arakune keeps you out for the first 20 seconds of the round, and you finally get in (You're at say... idk, 50% life at this point with like 6 stars). Then Arakune bursts at 85%. So far I think this is a plausible situation, thus far.

Then say he keeps you out some more and you're at 15% life now (and 8 stars) with 40 seconds left, and you haven't gotten an opportunity on him yet so he's still at 85%. Then he tries for risky mix-up and you predict and get a 6B CH into Mugen. Then you can infinite him to death for a win.

Sure that's a lot of set-up. and I'm not saying play like this against arakune. I'm just saying that I feel this is a situation where Mugen could be practical, and I also think it's a 100% plausible one, especially against someone like arakune (or Nyu for that matter).

[ryokoalways]

The only way you are going to do damage with anything less than 3 magatamas is off a throw, or land a lucky enma. But no one in their right mind would let that happen, because all they have to do is block low and OS the throw. Otherwise you can dish out minor damage if you manage to counter something (anything in the ball park of 2.2k). And you really should read the last 2 pages regarding mugen. It seems to me you really haven't read them yet, because everything has more or less been addressed.

[SimpleKiss]

The only way you are going to do damage with anything less than 3 magatamas is off a throw, or land a lucky enma.

But no one in their right mind would let that happen, because all they have to do is block low and OS the throw.

Otherwise you can dish out minor damage if you manage to counter something (anything in the ball park of 2.2k).

And you really should read the last 2 pages regarding mugen. It seems to me you really haven't read them yet, because everything has more or less been addressed.

3C CH nets good damage. 6A CH leads to good damage.

[ryokoalways]

They hover around 2.2k, as I said already.