SoWL

If they liked hats, Tsubaki would've been top tier. I'm pretty sure ASW made a lot of new sprites for GG between GGX and GGXX, and now that they've gone 3D, it should be even easier. Didn't Hazama get mostly nerfed in 1.10? I'm not sure how easy it is to make a character be only about strong movement, since we have more than one character who is all about mobility. Which means that you have to give them more advantages over each other so people have to actually choose between them. And personally, rather than nerfing the top tiers, I'd like like them buff the bottom tiers, though I can see that it might take a while before they get to the levels of Hazama or Valkenhayn, especially if the patches are going to come out as infrequently as they do now.

That post was mostly an example of how, in the right environment, one character design can be stronger than the other. Obviously, not every single game is ruled by fragile speedsters, but there are some environments where they get the edge, and you can't take it from them unless you change the very foundations of the game. The same goes for any other character archetype, it's just that in this particular game, with this particular roster, these particular characters are stronger than the rest. I suppose it does contradict my "Inherently better" statement, but I do believe that nerfing, say, Taokaka to bottom tier would either require changing the core of her gameplay, or giving her some ridiculous over-the-top beating, such as making her hits deal no damage. Note that the former choice was picked much less often in ASW games than the much more extreme latter one. Sure, it's also the easier one, but this also means that it's not that simple to just throw away a design that's already in the game. As for the second half of the post, perhaps "nerfing the damage" wasn't the right way to put it, but rather "nerfing the offense". That one should include many things that you listed, such as oki, pressure, speed of normals and so on. Now, obviously all characters should be capable of both offense and defense to some extent, and you can't flat-out remove one of these aspects out of the character, but I do believe that one particular example (that is, a defense-oriented mobile character) is not really fun. It can be powerful, sure, but players aren't going to enjoy the time-outs. I've been thinking a lot over my posts in this thread, and I feel like it's because I don't exactly know how to express this idea of mine, so thank you for bringing me closer to it. Perhaps it goes something like this: Balancing the game's roster should be done at the stage of character playstyle design. If the game is not balanced beyond that point, it's impossible to balance it perfectly unless development reviews that stage. I'm glad that this thread didn't get closed.

Meanwhile, Goro is also taking names with the worst character in the game, so I'm not sure how Xrd is better than BB here. Because, believe it or not, Hazama has some problems getting in on people. His forward dash has fixed distance, his Drive can be blocked and punished (on IB), and his normals have poor range. It only makes sense for him to get some reward if he does manage to get in (and it usually requires him to have some meter, too). Valkenhayn, meanwhile, requires smart switching between his slow, but damaging human mode and his quick, but fragile wolf mode. He gets twice as many strengths as other characters, but also twice as many weaknesses, and he has to know his priorities about them in each specific case. And of course, there is also the wolf gauge, which got got nerfed in 1.10, so you shouldn't expect as many free switches over the course of the match.

One of the most obvious ones is 6C jump cancel, at least that's the one I've seen my friend using quite a lot. It's not too difficult to put 6C at the end of your corner combos, though I'm not sure how useful it is in midscreen.

There is no favoritism, it's just that some character designs are inherently stronger than others. Let's say that there is a character whose main advantage is his mobility, not unlike the ones you see in many other fighting games. Now, he's obviously going to be stronger than the less mobile characters, unless the developers make him weaker in other aspects. Weakening his damage usually means that playing this character means flying around the opponent and delivering mosquito bites as they try to catch you, and that is neither satisfying nor fun for either of the two players. That means that such characters usually get weak defense instead - I mean, it's not unreasonable to have your local speedster be fragile. However, his mobility means that he rarely has to care about being hit, even if being hit means certain death for him 90% of the time. Sure, a player who knows this character well enough can outrun him and play to his own character's strengths (such as good defensive tools and health), but the less experienced players will have a very hard time doing so. That is especially true since playing a mobile character usually requires a slightly higher time investment (at the very least, you need good fundamentals to compensate for your poor defense), which means that such fights can get even more lopsided. And if the game has universal defensive options (such as bursts, alpha counters or pushblocking), they can be just enough to push this mobile character over the edge between "Can be played around" and "Has no weaknesses". Luckily, such defensive options depend on various limited resources in BlazBlue, which means that no one can use them for the whole match. And let's be honest, the game's roster isn't as imbalanced as in some kusoge, so there are still ways to fight Hazama or Litchi's antics. Also this. I had my own share of frustrating Bullet matches, but I never blamed them on frame data.

Good to hear that Bobobo write-up is on the way, I just tried him for the first time, and he's simply amazing. Zebra stuff is still happening (gotta test some setups first), but for now, I guess it's worth mentioning that the Naruto route has Gon and Yusuke as partners. And now we have all the teams in the game.

スラッシュダウンキック is Shizuo's divekick, I believe.

No one posted the link, so I missed the new episode http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/1395903827

Nevermind that people could do (and did) that with the arcades, let alone the console version.

I'm either missing something, or you shouldn't throw the syringes on opponent's wake-up, since the invuls are pretty long (and I personally have no idea when they end ). Gotta try going online soon, as well, even though I can't record my replays right now.

I thought her mode change doesn't deal any damage? Or do you mean using it like a cancel or something? I got to watch more vids...

Faust's nationality is such a small aspect of him that most people don't even know about it, so I'm not sure why his theme should have any Chinese motives in it. That's like asking for Spanish guitar in Zato's theme: there are better and more important things to represent there before that (although if Ishiwatari does that AND uses some Spanish guitar in a way that doesn't clash with the rest of the song, no one would object).

More silly OST stuff: The Incredibles is indeed Yamada's theme, but the rest of them, uh, aren't as set in stone as you might think. No character from the same franchise shares a theme, which means that there aren't that many "exclusive" themes in the OST. Here's the full list off the top of my head: Goku - Raging Blast Vegeta - Dark Inferno Frieza - Two Steps from Hell Luffy - Never Ending Adventure Ace - The Hitman Hancock - Beat tun Up! Akainu - Edge of the Fist Naruto - Ninja Slayer Sasuke - Burning Sword Madara - Edge of the Fist Toriko - Good Appetite! Zebra - Raging Blast Gintoki - Bring it On! Ryotsu - Matsuri! Revolution Seiya - Brave Soldiers Jonathan - Brave Soldiers Joseph - Bravely and Resolutely Ichigo - The Styx Aizen - Two Steps from Hell Kenshin - Burning Sword Shishio - The Styx Yusuke - Dark Inferno Hiei - The Styx Toguro - Edge of the Fist Momotaro - Man of Men Arale - You're easygoing... Gon - Bravely and Resolutely Killua - Assassin Rendezvous Kenshiro - Edge of the Fist Raoh - Brave Soldiers Oga - Bad Boys Medaka - Abnormal Psychology Koro-sensei - Assassin Rendezvous Saiki - Psycho Circus Bobobo - Beat tun Up! Tsuna - The Hitman Luckyman - Good Luck! Yamada - The Incredibles Nube - Two Steps from Hell Now I wonder why they couldn't give each character their own theme, like they did in JoJo ASB. I suppose because it's a team battle action rather than a proper fighting game? Oh well, the OST itself is still pretty good, especially Assassin Rendezvous and Edge of the Fist.

KYH feels like one of those characters who require good resource management. The game already has a lot of decisions to make (you have bursts, assists, Dengeki marks and the super gauge to spend in many different ways), and then you add her modes on top of it. Back at the loketests, where no one even knew about the modes, she seemed mediocre, but as soon as the game was out and people tried Mode Red, she quickly revealed her potential for greatness. And that's not to mention that she got a few buffs along the way.

Not sure where you got that from, especially when the post right before you explained why these ratings can't be used to judge characters' strength.

I just got Tsuna in my Toriko party, so now I'm not sure if we should even list the temporary party members. Or at least I should wait until I finish the route before listing them all. For now, I double-checked the OST, here are some corrections and additions: Brave Soldiers - theme of Saint Seiya and JoJo (at least Jonathan) Bravely and Resolutely - theme of Hunter x Hunter Bad Boys - theme of Beelzebub Abnormal Psychology - theme of Medaka Box (makes sense) Psycho Circus - theme of Saiki Kusuo no Psi Nan Beat tun Up! - theme of Bobobobo Bobobo Two Steps from Hell - theme of Hell Teacher Nube That only leaves The Incredibles, which I can only assume to be Chinyuki's theme (haven't unlocked Tarou yet, so can't test it).

The only way to get proper frame data is from the mook or 60fps videos, and the latter requires a lot of effort beyond actually recording the video. Other than that, it's nigh-impossible to get the data just by playing in the arcades (even the sparring mode isn't as good as proper console training mode).

I'll probably write down some Zebra stuff tomorrow, since he's actually not that complicated as a character (and even his move names don't have to be translated). I haven't tried Medaka yet, but she might be the first character I write an "in-depth" summary about. I just noticed that there is some new stuff in the posts, so would you mind summarizing the updates? Since there are so many posts and collapsed portions, it takes a while to find what's new by yourself. Random tidbits that can be added: Gintama stage - Tougenkyou Kenshin stage - Time of Great Inferno Toriko J-Adventure playables - Toriko, Son Goku, Zebra (and Nube as a temporary teammate)

Well, JoJo ASB already kinda does that, and it doesn't get too obstructive.

I'm not sure whether or not I can make a new thread for 1.10 videos, and Prototype went AWOL, so I figured I should just keep posting the vids here and then get them to the OP of the next thread (whether or not it's made by me or him). (1.10) vs Jin: BBCP 1.1 3/22/2014 Urban Square *Sub Stream* 3on3 Part 2/7 [Mosuzoo] (1.10) vs Kagura: BBCP 1.1 3/22/2014 Urban Square *Sub Stream* Pre Tournament Casuals Part 2/2 (1.10) vs Makoto: BBCP 1.1 3/21/2014 Tachikawa 3on3 Part 3/7 [0] (1.10) vs Nu: BBCP 1.1 3/22/2014 Urban Square *Sub Stream* 3on3 Part 2/7 (1.10) vs Terumi: BBCP 1.1 3/22/2014 Urban Square *Sub Stream* 3on3 Part 2/7 (Part 2) [Mosuzoo] BBCP 1.1 3/22/2014 Urban Square 3on3 Part 5/8 [Reimondo] (1.10) vs Tsubaki: BBCP 1.1 3/22/2014 Urban Square *Sub Stream* 3on3 Part 2/7

A nameless anon from 2ch, so yeah, not very trustworthy. I'm more interested in the comments than the tier list itself, really, since Dustloop hasn't discussed the patch that much yet.

While everyone's discussing the English release of the game, I'd like to bring back the patch discussion for a moment. We got our first tier list, and even though the usual early tier list caveats apply, it's still a nice thing to chew on. http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1395265870/620 SS: Kokonoe S: Azrael, Carl, Rachel, Jin, Litchi, Hazama, Ragna A: Hakumen, Valkenhayn, Noel, Bang, Taokaka, Bullet, Mu, Nu, Terumi, Amane B: Arakune, Platinum, Tsubaki, Izayoi, Kagura, Makoto, Tager And the comments: - Kokonoe got nerfed hard, but that just means she's down from SSSSS to SS tier. - Azrael is now pretty much a stronger version of Hakumen, since the latter doesn't get magatamas as easily now (though he still got respectable damage and defense). - Carl got better because Sis just never dies now, and even if she does, he can resurrect her with OD. - Rachel got stronger simply because 2C is better now. - Jin, Noel, Bang, Mu and Nu didn't change much at all. - Despite the nerfs, both Litchi and Hazama still have amazing neutral game and can dish out great damage. - Ragna got bumped to S tier thanks to Gauntlet Hades hitting crouching opponents in the corner. Yep, just like that. - Valk and Tao are still strong, but the nerfs were enough to bring them down a notch. - Bullet got a kusoge power-up (your guess is as good as mine). - Terumi has better neutral game now, so he can still do well without Heat. - Amane's 2A and 5C buffs allow him to fight his natural enemies better, especially considering that most of them got nerfed in some way. You can safely mash 2A on wake-up to punish fraudulent DPs to some extent. - Izayoi and Arakune might get bumped to A tier if proper tech is discovered.

Good stuff so far, I'm going to try and contribute from now on (finally got the game up and running). For now, it's worth reposting this list from the previous thread (courtesy of Weewer AKA PirateKing92): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkGoPzxJWSbKdHhUVEV4d1FqY2Z6QTAzanl5MGNoMWc&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=0 And there is also this official combo movie sort of thing, even if some combos are extremely simple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIaWpwmhKZs

When do you think we can expect the announcement of the Vita port? I'm not sure I want to export it after the PS3, I'd rather have my two copies in two different languages. But if it's going to be released a month or two after the JP version, I'll probably opt for getting my hands on the patch ASAP.

1. He's a man. 2. He controls zippers. I see no problem with this translation at all