Zeromus_X

"Dropping Combos Like It's 120°F" - The Arizona Thread "Drop a Combo, Call it a Reset" - Only in Arizona "Make it an AZ Punish - Throw Their DP Recovery"

I like this comparison lol. Yeah, one of the appealing things about Naoto, to me, is that she has an "alternate win-condition" no other character has - but it's not pushed to be the main focus of her game. I see Naoto as a versatile zoning character first, Instant Kill character second, and it would be a shame if they focused her entirely on the Fate kill to the detriment of the other aspects of her game. But yeah, first loketest and all that jazz, so she could end up in an entirely different direction in the final game.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXMOXNB0U4I&t=3m29s Looks like we can do 6B > 5D > jump cancel-cancel OD for more OD combo time. I wonder if we can do the same off other starters. EDIT: works off 3C too. I am the best at watching entire videos. Looks like you need to have a stein set up from an Ikutachi > stein reset though.

I think Labrys having Gravedigger might have been a rumor...but apparently now she has a Phantom Soul.

I'm not trying to sound pessimistic, and I'm well aware this is a loketest - believe me, I am fairly optimistic about Naoto in the grand scheme of things. If my post made me seem like I was "freaking out" I apologize. But when I'm analyzing changes and you guys say, "this isn't really a big change, because I never used something so integral to Naoto's game anyway", it definitely makes me go

Just where are you guys using 2B or meaty 236A for oki? Naoto's trap oki in the corner is one of the few things she has to actually make people respect her. Without it we'll be left with 236A into safejump setups, unless other setups come along. No she doesn't get seconds of lockdown where she can do whatever she wants like Yu or Chie but you force the other player to block or literally die if they get hit. Even a less optimal hitconfirm can lead into a short combo into the same situation. Maybe they'll discovery some new oki with her but until then this is a pretty huge blow.

I didn't think about that, that would make a lot more sense. So maybe stance cancel is still fine, but we'll have to wait longer to get back a full clip. I guess we'll really have to know when and where to use bullets this time around.

Latest news from info thread. Shoutouts to Omex. Apparently we can take away Fate counters more than once in a combo, but every time after the first will only deplete one counter. I wonder if we can still do regular fate move > series of 1 fate moves > end in Shotgun super? This could make combos optimizing fate reduction much more relevant; but I would be a little disappointed if they make Naoto's gameplan revolve entirely around getting the fate kill. I always thought of it as her unique alternate win-condition, but not the main goal when playing her. SB Silence super inflicts Silence, Fear, AND gets rid of 6 counters. We always had the option of comboing Silence shot after the Shotgun super to stack ailments along with Fate counters, but now we only need 75 meter for the same effect. Mudoon has more startup, which explains why it won't always combo where it does now. It also may have lost bonus proration, which reduces it to just being an instant-kill super. 5DD having more untechable time will help alot with picking up afterward. Air A Fang pickup sounds awesome Lolwut, hope 4-5 second reload time is just a rumor... Also no more trap oki is pretty disheartening.

Stunedge updated his evernote. Not 100% sure on these. コンボ中の運命カウントの減り方が一回目は技ごとに設定されている数値分を削り、 二回目以降はすべて１のみ削る、コンボ中削れるカウントの制限がなくなった？ -No idea about this. Something about how Fate counters work in combos changed. SB甲型で甲型>乙型という超必が出る。魔封＋恐怖＋運命カウント６削れる -SB Anti-SP Pistol combines Silence and Shotgun supers. Inflicts Silence, Fear, and depletes 6 Fate counters. ムドオンの発生が遅く、ボーナス補正がない -Mudoon has more startup, bonus proration is gone?

She'll probably be fine, just don't go through the "seven stages of denial" if she doesn't turn out quite what you expected lol. Also I got online but you already went offline. I am the best at dodging.

Yeah I wouldn't mind netplaying later. I haven't played Persona much since EVO though lol.

I will be glad to see the SMP loop gone too, but let's be real here: If you aren't using the SMP loop with Naoto right now, you're only playing half a character. They are absolutely practical and required to play her somewhat competitively. Saying "the SMP loop isn't practical because they can burst" is like saying "I shouldn't go for the best damage combo I can in this situation, because the opponent can just burst out of it"...Sometimes you have to go for a SMP to make the opponent burst or threaten to take away the round from them. Every Naoto should at least learn the basic SMP combos off common starters. Back to P4C, 2C is now special cancellable. 2C > 236B will work, so it looks like 2C will replace 5C for 236B confirms. Depending on how early we can cancel 2C, it might only work in the corner since 2C sends them flying away, but we'll have to wait and see. It will be nice if we could get -2 Fate off regular confirms and still end in 236A oki.

Apparently Mudoon is harder to combo into now. IAD jA, jC, > Mudoon, 236B > Mudoon, and C shots > Mudoon won't work. I guess if damage is going to be toned down universally, Naoto being able to tack a Mudoon on to anything would be a bit too good, especially with C shots meter gain. I assume 2C > Mudoon and throw followup > Mudoon are still in. I wonder if Venom > Mudoon works? jD being able to combo into 236A sounds nice. I wonder if we get a good knockdown on air hit. Would be awesome to actually end air confirms into oki instead of a ghetto setup with jD. 236B not combo'ing from 5C is worrisome. I was hoping they would make it easier to combo into. It's annoying to not get a 236B confirm because you weren't practially inside the opponent lol. But air 236B confirms sound awesome. I wonder if we can do starter > air 236B~D > IAD combo. 5D being faster is awesome. Hopefully now we won't get insta-gibbed for trying to throw out a 55-frame move lol. Sweep > 5D being removed kind of gets rid of any 5D oki we had, but they seem to have removed one-button oki across the board. Oh yeah, another thing I wonder is if the forward shot from her DP still wallbounces. Since we can input a followup without having to counter something, we'd basically have a fullscreen projectile that we can combo off of near the corner. That would be pretty lol. Overall I'm optimistic about the new Naoto. Her zoning looks toned down but she got some interesting tools that help out other parts of her game. I hope we get some more info soon.

>SB Fire Boost gives three fire levels Mother of God.

I agree that it's important to know when to go for Fate counters over damage, especially if it's the first round. You shouldn't always go for SMP damage and it depends on factors like their remaining Burst, what resources you have, etc. But I still think Naoto would be pretty terrible if she didn't have the SMP loop in this version of the game. She can get decent damage with vanilla Mudoon combos but that doesn't mean much against characters like Mitsuru or Aigis that can sneeze on you and take off half of your life bar with little resources. Maybe "only thing keeping her viable" was an exaggeration, but I feel like you really need to know how to confirm into SMP off every random hit to be competitive with her.The other aspects of her gameplay alone aren't enough to make other characters that are strictly better at neutral, okizeme, etc. respect her without the threat of huge damage, which is why I disagreed with the notion that it wasn't "extremely necessary".

The nerf to her zoning was probably because they thought Poison would be too good, like was mentioned. It's still super early so I wouldn't worry too much. I'm sure they'll tweak things around a bit in future loketests. Regarding SMP loop, I can't agree that it's not extremely practical...it is pretty much the only thing keeping Naoto somewhat viable right now. I am glad they're getting rid of it though and giving her more tools to make her an actual character and not a glitch. At least now her DP is apparently better and all the derp-tier characters got toned down, so there's that to look forward to. Hopefully we get an actual 2B this time around.

Yeah it's really sounding like it's going to a be a new game instead of a patch update. All the Japanese tweeters use the kanji for "sequel" when tweeting P4U news. Omg S. Mitsuru looks creepy as hell lol.

It does seem odd that they would nerf her zoning tools, but let's have faith for more changes and future loketests. Maybe they were afraid that zoning would be too good along with Poison or something lolol. At least now it sounds like we have an actual DP so people can't go ham on us after a knockdown. At any rate, this thread seems like it's for info only, so I think we should keep speculation to the general thread or make a separate speculation thread.

Oh god I just now noticed the new SFX. At least it's not nearly as jarring as BBCP. Edit: Omg, Naoto might have a real DP now. Don't need to catch an attack to shoot afterward anymore. also Liz changes: http://pastebin.com/BZRPU8gG Hahaha, they gave her Debilitate as a move and it inflicts Negative Penalty.

Naoto info from stunedge. Anyone with moonrune knowledge want to help out?: +Double Fangs now useable in the air. +New move: Venom Zapper (Venom Blade), inflicts Poison. Can combo after 5C. -Sweep > 5D gatling removed. -Reloading bullets has more recovery -Traps have more recovery -SMP Loop removed. No longer possible to loop B Double Fangs. +During Critical Shot, inputting additional shots auto-corrects Naoto's direction? Not sure about what this bit means: ・逆ギレが攻撃を取らなくても派生可能 Something about her Furious Action.

Random changes from Twitter:

Brian, isn't that the same patch the arcade version got a while back? I think that's the same version we got in the console update. I feel like Yukiko should be buffed, but I don't know enough about the char to say exactly what. Just as long as she doesn't become Eddie tier.

It seems like they just toned down the derpier parts of her gameplan but gave her some other stuff to make up for it. I don't think she'll end up CS1-Rachel tier but she'll probably have to work for her wins this time around. I am curious about her new ice projectile. For Teddie, I hope they make Bearscrew more disadvantageous. That shit is annoying as hell for only being -1. Also they need to make his DP more punishable, or at least make it able to be safe-jumped. He shouldn't be able to get out of all oki setups for free at best, or reset the game to neutral at worst.

IIRC didn't Aki have a hidden "4th" level if you CH with level 3 cyclone moves? Maybe those properties will just be regularly available now? The prospect of a level 5 EX Corkscrew is pretty terrifying though. There is like zero info on Naoto so far. Hopefully some more info is released soon. I would assume the SMP loop was removed at least.

+R: Save Justice Edition? I thought the game looked pretty balanced as it was, but what do I know about GG. Shadow characters sound crazy, it's like the game has different Moons now lol. Edit: Lolol, Mitsuru damage nerfed, DP has more recovery, and coup droits slower. Looks like she got a new projectile and other move properties to compensate though. And I hear over the twitters that everyone's R-Action puts you in Fatal Counter state during recovery now, I hope that's true.