TD

Everyone is beginning to repeat themselves lol. Guess this era is wrapping up. Does anyone have a gameplay related question?

22c smp still knocks down or staggers the second time. It's basically just maximizing damage from a different ender in his case. The third trigger will probably be like most character's second smp trigger. Jin doesn't mind the stagger because it offers a different situation that could potentially confuse the opponent, even though it is riskier.

They have their place, but most characters just want the knockdown. It depends on the character usually and what options they have after the smp, or move properties. We've seen some pretty ridiculous smp things, like Hazama OD chains, haku OD stuff, terumi has some resets. Most cases though the foe can quickly tech, sometimes quicker than one can handle, which is even harder to control than rolls. They are gimmicky at worst, but some characters can legit use them in combos. The forementioned two, mu, and izayoi are some examples.

I'm sorry, but no. Just because it's someone's opinion does not mean it is not wrong. If I saw someone telling someone new misinformation, whether it's their 'opinion' or not, I'm not going to just sit there and let someone believe that! How is that not common sense? Now if we have a casual setting not talking seriously and fucking around then sure, but to really think opinions should be treated with absolutism is just not cool. Respect, hell yeah, everyone should be respected, but when it comes to being wrong, something has to be said. I would love if someone respectfully corrected me on an opinion I may have if I was wrong. Then, if they are correct, I could avoid dying in the game, or saying that same thing on this forum and looking stupid in the future. Using words wrong is an entirely different subject, as long as you get what I am saying than I am good. I make plenty of typos too, for future reference. #IPhoneproblems

I suppose you could, if you feel that you have learned something from me. As for terumee having better pressure than bang, well. Ultimately, I think he has the normals to keep going for a long time potentially. He has very few but very interesting properties to beat certain mashes during pressure, and he can stop jumps reasonably well. Terum's big problem on this department is that he does not get the foe to stop blocking. Jin has his 6a, deceptive animations, lots of canceling frames in his attacks, plenty of options in general to work with. Terumi is more focused on frame traps. His high/low mixup is abysmal without heat, his command grab is exceedingly risky for decent reward, he doesn't get much out of midscreen combos or neutral without heat. He is a character that often finds himself wishing he could do more in most of his pressure. This means than his pressure becomes even more linear than bang. Most good players know that terumi has limited answers to certain options once he gets to a certain part in pressure. In his current iteration, he is not designed for this game. If primers still existed where he could spam 6b to break primers, or guard libra where continued pressure had even more of an impact, then his offensive game would be more scary. Heck, give him back his old j2d, that small gift of charity would make his life so much better (but still quite poverty).

For the first paragraph, that is pretty much what I am saying, including stagger. The bigger picture is that stagger pressure IS a part of mixup. The bigger picture is that mixup does not actually mean just high/low/throw/left/right etc as the end all. 2a 2a is a mixup in this game, and an effective one, of which I will explain. A mixup, my perception of it, is the ability to disrupt a foe's concentration on the screen forcing him to think of something while you do something else. That "something else" should be something of which is a direct counter to what the foe could be doing at any possible time. To me, looking at it this way, you can see the interaction between players as an entire mixup within itself, as in, you can literally point out a form of mixup every second the game goes on. This doesn't mean thinking any other way is wrong by any means. I do think though that thinking this way can make one a ton more resourceful when it comes to their neutral or x seconds of offensive time. As for the second, there is opinion, and there of fact. There is better, and there is optimal. You literally cannot say that Rachel and Valkenhayn are not the best high/low hitters in this game. You just can't. If your experience of the game is either not fighting enough of these two or not getting exposure to their options, yet you see someone with the same form of high low mixup like bang, you might think his is better, but the reality of the situation is that it is not the case. Plenty of people dumped months into this game, profoundly analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of each character to determine these things, after all. My point is that at higher level play, one must learn to look at the picture as a whole. Accuracy is extremely important in games like this, on so many levels, and it coincides with strategy. One must be willing to take the details as if they are pieces to a puzzle and not the puzzle itself.

Jin has more mixup than bang because he has more terms attached to him that he is capable of utilizing in an effective way. When you think of stagger pressure, Jin has it great. Plus frame normals, he has plenty. Frame traps? Fast and slow ones that lead into plenty of options. Etc. Essentially, no one is able to consistently March to the beat of Jin's drum. His rhythm can potentially be so varied to the point of having to guess which button he will hit next, and having the answer. it's a different form of aggressive, unlike the in your face high/low characters in this game. Jin will make you think he has reverse gatlings, whereas Bang is sort of like a rhythm monster, and that isn't too great when it comes to deception. Since, as mentioned, he cannot stagger pressure as well anymore (d nails made him very good, but still not quite on the level of Jin). His mixup options come after specific normals and usually doing them would end a string shortly thereafter. Not to say Bang does not have good mixup, but one can see it as risky even as he is pressuring the foe. Bangs strength comes from the neutral game, and his pressure game offers returning to safety vs. going all in, but Jin is quite prepared for most situations in this game, depending on the player controlling him. Someone said bang shouted out every attack he did and it made him honest, and it trended. If you take a look at his normals and pressure strings, even bumpers, you can see his personality in there, too. Edit: Henaki wrote an article on different types of mixup a few years ago that could explain very well what's going on with Jin's pressure.

This is the most on topic I have ever seen this thread. I don't even know what to do, this is like an entirely new concept... Me scared of bright light type shit. At any rate, perhaps this will raise more interest into the game, with 2.0 only a few short weeks away.

Always try to barrier 5b at the very least, or in the second hit, this is the most universal way to get an edge over it. Move is very strong otherwise.

Not enough Rachel for my tastes. :/

They aren't entirely subjective depending on how educated they are, yet it could never be 100% truth. the best tier list is one collected by many educated, unbiased players who can break down the matchups at an above average level of intellect. It's simply less likely to be wrong in parts because it would be based more on the facts than the opinions. It is entirely feasable to have a legit tier list for any game, so long as it is well thought out, contains enough people to be relevant, and factual. One or more of these requirements usually are not met, because games need time to develop and a dedicated lot of players who can contain and spread the RIGHT information.

How could anyone forget that evo match? How can I be so blind! Thanks a million, kind sir.

Damn, been sitting at a table sipping on the loony tea for far too long it seems. Of the hundreds of videos I likely watched in the past year I wouldn't be able to point it out if it hit me in the face. Then again, Japan top players has always been rather good at blocking. Or have they...!?

This is very interesting. And you said this has been mentioned before? I wonder how long it has existed. How fast of inputs are we talking here? Does it all have to be executed in less than 5 frames for example. How frequently does one need to use it in a blockstring, or does that come with character knowledge? But if there is a general amount id love to know. Better yet is there a video example from your tournament? I realize I may be asking a lot given this may be a new concept to you as well, but this sounds really... I dunno, not broken, but it definitely looks like waking up in any asw game with no dp is going to be a lot more fun.

Stuff added. Personally koko has balanced herself out to be an offensive footsies character with zoning capabilities. Her gameplan is still fluid and can change in a heartbeat. Having great foresight and planning as well as execution comes into play, as well as how well one understands her risks up close, which was a little more undermined before since she was so good at everything.

Call him what he is at the moment. He is the worst character in the game right now, after all.

It's starting to lag. Is someone streaming? Sigh. Lost my appetite. I know you felt that lag black. Ggs. Sorry peeps, maybe next time will be better.

Hush, you. Sounding like a New Yorker. I'm coming right now.

Please invite. Have to update bb and switch my router. Less than 5.

Lol I'm here, setting up the 3. There will be a point where I have to leave for a bit for an errand, so fair warning. Is everyone ready?

There's a chart on levels in the wiki. Once the level goes up all data regarding it will go up to the corresponding level unless it has some weird properties. Example blockstun would go from 9f to 11f on the transition of a move, simply. Example property would be a level 3 move listing 27f blockstun. Which is a thing with litchi 6d. (Not sure if it's level 3 but it doesn't matter in this particular case.)

I'm not even that great now lol. It's been over 3 months, with random play dates few and far between. Trying to get home now. With some delays...

You're not gonna leave like last time right?

May or may not play later, depending on if PS3 is free. Currently ps4 streamed cp is officially unfit to play, there is a natural 2-3f delay on top of whatever delay is going on in the match (on the upside, loading is so damn fast compared to the PS3 ver). It's not fun and I see now why people say, "but I blocked that!!". ...small rant aside, if I do get on, I would also like an ft5 or so, I'm quite rusty though so don't expect fireworks exactly.

If you are not close enough after the backflip to 5a, yes, and it's the same method as using 66db