Digital Watches

@Silmerion: I have some thoughts on some stuff you said but I wasted a lot of time messing with those character-specific combos and I've got to go for now. We should talk some of these basic combos later.

Messing around with confirms from meterless Raei into the corner: Raei, 5H-6H, c.S-2S-sj.D-Bomber, 66-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 252 on Kliff (Hard knockdown, just out of the corner) Works on Kliff, Dizzy, Anji, Testament, Bridget Raei, 5H-6H, c.S-2S-sj.HD-Bomber, 66-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 248 on Zappa (Hard knockdown, just out of the corner) Works on Zappa, Axl, Slayer, Justice Raei, 5H-6H, 2S-sj.D-Bomber, 66-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 245 on Venom (Hard knockdown just out of the corner) Works on Milla, Eddie, Venom Raei, 5H-6H, 2S-j.D-Bomber, jD-Bomber, Rensen 229 on Sol (Hard knockdown in the corner) Works on Sol, Order Sol Raei, 5H-6H, c.S-sj.HD-Bomber, 66-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 247 on Faust (Hard knockdown, just out of the corner) Works on Faust Raei, 5H-6H, c.S-2S-sj.HD-Bomber, 66-2S-jHD-Bomber, Rensen-2 215 on Potemkin (Hard knockdown, just out of the corner) Works on Potemkin Raei, 5H-6H, c.S-2S-sj.K-Bomber, 66-2S-jK-Bomber, Rensen-2 231 on Jam (Hard knockdown, just out of the corner) Works on Jam Raei, c.S-5H-6H, 2S-j.D-Bomber, jD-Bomber, Rensen 295 on Chipp (Hard knockdown in the corner) Works on Chipp Raei, c.S-5H-6H, 2S-j.D-Bomber, jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 202 on ABA (Hard knockdown just out of the corner) Works on ABA Raei, c.S-5H-6H, 2S-j.D-Bomber, 66-c.S-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 239 on Johnny (Hard knockdown just out of the corner) Works on Johnny Raei, 5H-6H, 2S-sj.HD-Bomber, 66-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 253 on I-No (Hard knockdown just out of the corner) Works on I-No Raei, 5H-6H, 2S-j.D-Bomber, 66-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 274 on Baiken (Hard knockdown just out of the corner) Works on Baiken Raei, c.S-5H-6H, 2S-j.D-Bomber, 66-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 209 on Robot (Hard knockdown just out of the corner) Works on Robot Raei, 5H-6H, 2S-j.D-Bomber, 66-5K-2S-jD-Bomber, Rensen-2 241 on Ky (Hard knockdown just out of the corner) Works on Ky Raei, 5H-6H, 2S-sj.HD-Bomber, jHD-Bomber, Rensen-2 253 on May (Hard knockdown just out of the corner) Works on May

Some stuff: 5H-6H, Something is a good link for certain situations, and will lead to optimal damage in some. Things I've gotten to link from 6H: 5K, c.S, 2S. This implies to me that at a bunch of viable places where this might be your combo, you have about 9-10F to link something (I've gotten the 2S and c.S to hit pretty high without going black beat on some characters, so it's up in the air.) Since bomber prorates so much this game, leadups into your combo are going to matter a lot, and 5H-6H will carry pretty far, so basically just don't count it out yet. Additionally: Some 5K starters you haven't mentioned: 66, 5K-5P(2)-2S(1)-6K(2)-Rensen (Works on Venom, Slayer, Dizzy, Eddie, Axl, Pot, I-No, Jam, Testament, Justice, Anji, ABA, and Millia) (Only against standing opponents) THE CROWD PLEASER 5K-6P-c.S-5H-Rensen (5K-6P will not work on crouching Zappa or Faust, c.S-5H will not work on standing Kliff (Notably, Kliff does get combo'd by c.S-5H if he is crouching)) 5K-c.S-2H-2D-Rensen 5K-6P-3P-2H-2D-Rensen (Best damage from 5K if you don't have the meter to continue, works on the cast minus crouching Zappa and Faust, who 5K-6P won't connect on) 142 damage on Sol Etc. My point is that while it's fun to exhaustively find all the things that will work, this is a chain-based game, so it's probably more worthwhile to list damage, figure out what's optimal, and list that on the main post. If a combo is better for some reason other than doing more damage (Carrying further, guaranteed knockdown, less character-specific, less setup-specific, a good setup for a trap, or something), it's probably also worth noting, but a lot of these are just variations that don't do much different, and so new players are likely to be overwhelmed.

+R Dropped! What is the state of midrange now? Talk deep theory here.

+R Dropped. HOW DAFUQ I PLAY AXL? This thread is for Questions and Answers. Ask a question or answer a question. I'll try to keep an FAQ updated in this post, which may contain questions which were only asked once (i.e. FREQUENTLY ENOUGH).

This post is for counterhit confirms and other weird situational stuff

This post is for basic combos from various confirms

+R dropped. GATLING ALL THE THINGS Discuss the nitty-gritty of how to Axl here. One of many stickies to come.

+R Dropped. OH GOD I DO NO DAMAGE! Talk Axl combos here. NOTATION USED BY ME: (Assume anything I don't mention is whatever's standard on DL) - denotes a cancel from one move to another. Gatling, special cancel, jump cancel, whatever. For example, 2H-2D-Rensen is all cancels. , denotes a link. For example, 5H-6H, 2S implies a gatling from H to 6H, then a link to 2S. RCs, FDCs, and FRCs are not noted like cancels, just note them in parens. For example, Kokuu (FRC), 5P should be listed like a link, because you're not cancelling the FRC into anything. ... denotes a delay. For example, 2D-Rensen (FRC) ... 5P implies a delay between the rensen FRC and the 5P In air gatlings, I use lack of spaces to denote air normal gatlings and dashes to denote other kinds of cancels, including landing and using ground normals. Only write j. once, and write it again if you mean jump again. For example, the combo c.S-H-Rensen (FRC), 66 c.S-JI-2S-sj.KPK-j.HD-Kokuu has one superjump and one doublejump in it. I often write names of specials for visual and conceptual clarity. If you're playing this character, you should know roughly what your specials are called anyway If you can, please make note of what characters a combo works on (Or, if it's a fairly universal combo, characters it does not work on) For example, (From midscreen) c.S-2D-Rensen (FRC), 66-2S-j.D-Bomber (Works on Slayer, Johnny, Dizzy, Justice, and Faust) Please list superjumps separately from normal jumps For example, the combo (in the corner) Throw, j.PD-Bomber works on a lot of characters. The combo Throw, sj.PD-Bomber doesn't work on most characters. The abbreviation for Hard slash in combos is H. If you write "HS", it's confusing and I will hunt you down. One of many stickies to come.

What I want to know is a lot about movement options and cancel properties. Stuff like "Does FD still cancel running/jump startup/the beginning of attacks?" "Are there any testable instances of airdashes overriding the momentum properties of an attack (Or anything similar)?" Etc. Anything like that would be good to know.

s/Teresa/+R Jam/g (Not to say Teresa isn't good, but that's basically true of how Jam seems to work now just in general).

Phaiyte: I have moved your post to the combo thread for the sake of cleanliness and consistency. Do not be alarmed! But getting to your post: probably the reason this option is seldom discussed is because it's harder than using 5k for the same purpose if you don't mind a tiny damage loss, and if you're looking for high damage, there's almost certainly a higher damage combo, usually specific to the character and/or setup. I don't know of any situation in which 6P-2S-j.D is optimal (though I also don't know for certain that there isn't one.) So in short: if a 6P-2S-j.D rep works for you, keep on doing it! It's a stylin' looking rep and I sometimes throw it in for variety (remember, in gg your combos can be varied as a form of mixup!). Consider adding c.S to that if you want a little more confirm leeway or damage. If you're finding it hard or unreliable to land the 6P, consider using 5K-2S instead. 5K is faster and has a better hitbox, so it's easier to confirm. If you want the true power of high damage Axl combos, consider learning some optimized reps, like c.S-j.D or j.H-j.D or re-TKB.

I'mna try and make this.

Pff. Whining? This sounds awesome as described.

Honestly it's a lot more like everyone's getting DOT. I'm assuming you're not going to see a lot of high or low projectiles, so it's just going to be more characters that become super-threatening at half meter (Since I assume time-freeze is going to lead to some "If you weren't already blocking, you can't block" type things.

Haha, those videos are called "Look at all these matchups that haven't changed from AC." Like seriously. Dizzy: Is a gross matchup. All the reasons she's terrible for Axl to fight are definitely amplified by the new stuff, and having new approach tools (Bomber FRC, 2P into 6H, shorter Rashou feint) only seems to help AZ out a little bit. Have fun blocking mixup for a year or eating huge damage if you ever fight a dizzy in +R. Jesus fuck that looks stupid. Sol: Okay so like honestly Ide-san does not look good here. I haven't seen enough of him to know if he just had an off-game or whatever, but he's missing basic stuff, making a lot of really random-looking choices, and just isn't playing very well. The matchup kind of looks like it does in AC since it's so neutral-game heavy for both players, but it's just hard to tell because Ide-san is playing so poorly. I-No: Isn't I-No supposed to be better this game? Doesn't look like it in this matchup, mostly because it's still a terrible hard counter for her, what with still having to approach mostly from the air or in prime 2H/3P range. 2H being a better tool, as well as being able to confirm damage from those far-away AA hits means Axl just got even more able to shut down pretty much all her tools. Zappa: Heh. Here Jobana seems to want to demonstrate how even when the super seems like a good plan, it probably isn't. But despite Zappa's crazy new shit, Axl basically fights him the same as in AC: Bait out stuff, only use conservative mixup options (So as not to eat a random 6P, 5K, or dragonpunch), go for a lot of throws, stay at midrange whenever possible, and fish for anything you can when the damn triplets are out, because you don't want to deal with triplets. Faust: Okay honestly this just looked like Jobana being patient and making some good guesses. I can't say I know enough about the Faust matchup to say whether it's indicative of anything besides Jobana being awesome.

Sick! Finally some arc revo cup I don't need a nico account for.

That's kind of a silly thing to say. Characters with decent offense and well-above-average neutral game aren't high-tier material? From what I've seen recently, TE is average at everything he's not super good at, meaning by definition pretty strong. Characters don't have to be completely broken in any specific way to be better on average than most characters.

It helps if you can give people simple advice. I've seen new GG players get discouraged when someone tries to tell them all the combos their character can do, or some advanced tech they should learn because it will be generically useful. If you're playing someone you're much better than, such as the guy who learned a bnb and thinks he should be winning now, it helps to pay attention to exchanges, and be able to tell them a simple reason why something happened, in terms the person you're talking to can understand. "You were in too much blockstun to poke out there, you should have kept blocking." "That's an overhead, you have to block it high." "You shouldn't swing against my character at that range. I have faster moves there than you do." If you must introduce new tech or specific properties of things, do it one thing at a time, and in places where it makes sense. "If you're running at me and want to stop and block, you can stop your run instantly with FD. Otherwise you get a slide animation and can't block for several frames." "You can't normally jump out there, but since you're slayer, you could learn to BDC jump, which you do by backdashing and quickly cancelling it with your jump." "Oh yeah, that's some Baiken-specific shenanigans. Her slide animation is lower-body invincible, so I used that to go through your 2K." Stuff like that. People may get frustrated by losing, but they get way more frustrated by losing and not knowing what they can do about it. There may be a lot of reasons a person is losing exchanges, and there's a lot of tech a person has to learn to really be competent at the game, but things happen so fast that all they really see is "some shit happened and I got hit by a combo and lost half my life" most of the time. As someone more experienced who can identify the situation they're in, let them know what they could have done in that situation, in a simple way that lets them identify it when it comes up again. More than learning advanced tech or combos or whatever, the main thing better players have on less experienced players is knowing how to identify situations and make good decisions in them. If someone genuinely wants to get better, that kind of information is both useful and can be presented in a way that is neither confusing nor condescending.

Yeah, nothing I've seen in match videos discredits the idea that that matchup is stacked.

Well that's good at least.

The most succinct summary I've heard for why consoles need to die.

I guarantee you that you would not see as many black beat combos in high-level matches in japan if it were a margin-of-error thing. People who play this game well (not theoretically-perfect, just well) are thinking about tech traps, either setting them up or working to avoid them. They may not have a perfect trap set up for every combo they do, but they are paying attention, they have an idea of when they might be leaving a window to tech, and they have an idea of what their character can do to take advantage of it in that situation (Sometimes that's "not a whole lot", but it's still worth knowing that). I would argue that at an observable (As in not theoretical) high level of play, teching on the first available frame is at least slightly (In certain matchups and especially against characters like Chipp and Axl, way more than slightly) more often a mistake than not. However, I like hold-to-tech because it eliminates an execution barrier that's an additional layer of difficulty. If someone knows they want to tech on the first frame it's possible, but don't have the timing to do it, I don't think interesting gameplay is occurring because they can't. If someone is holding down tech at all times against a strong player, the game is no different from a game where they teched on the first frame of every window because they are not smart, but have perfect timing. This will force an intermediate player to do honest combos, and it will allow an advanced player to set up tech traps easily. It will allow the beginner who is teching predictably to learn quickly that they are not failing and dying because their timing is bad, they are failing and dying because they are teching predictably, and perhaps they will learn to stop doing so more quickly. Teching as soon as possible is often bad play, but allowing it is not the same as encouraging it. Getting destroyed by resets and tech grabs is a far worse outcome than eating black beat combos, and the game only "encourages" what works. Removing execution barriers allows more people to be actually playing the higher-level game, where they get to tech where they want, and learn why they shouldn't want to tech there.

Honestly the way the meta in GG works out, I would pretty much never use hold to tech even if it existed. Way too easy to set up on a first frame tech attempt, and anyone worth their salt knows the techable point (if there is one) in their combo at least as well as you do. It doesn't make black beat combos worse, it makes scrubs more predictable for reset practice. It's much better to take a black-beat combo with the scaling from whatever came before it than to tech predictably, eat a reset into another combo that starts at normal scaling again. The only thing hold-to-tech gives you is access to perfect timing if teching immediately would be a good idea, making it an actual decision everyone needs to make, rather than only a decision once you're at a high enough level to know where the holes are and time your tech properly. I can't see why it would be an undesirable mechanic from a usability standpoint or a gameplay one.

I don't see why any approach with models would stop them from reskinning/retexturing or putting new soft-body simulations or whatever for clothing on top of the base models. Ultimately they're still going to end up with a model and an animation that's a series of transformations acting on the model, regardless of how they got there.