Afro-Demon

I wonder if they buffed his astral this time around. It's been useless since like forever. If they just gave it some more range it would actually be considered useful and a threat. Doubt it'll happen, but I'd so love it to be so. 6C stagger is nice to have, but I'd much rather have a good 5C again. By the way, anyone know if they kept the fuoco buffs from the loke test? I'd like to see how that move turns out. Could turn into decent corner carry if it works like I think it does. Oh well, all I'll do is hope for something good to show in the coming month and if not, pray they make anima a command grab in the next one.

I highly doubt C. There are some characters who got hit pretty hard this time around. I hear a lot about Litchi being terra bad now. My guess is B tier so far, but he is still looking like he's on the lower half of the cast this time. Not that he's bad, but others are just better. Of course, it's only been a week, more time is needed for someone like Carl to learn all his new options. I can see a lot of old Carls switching to Relius in the end though. He's literally like Carl, but with better Doll health mechanics, good movement, about 11k of health, 5 primers, doesn't require negative edge/doesn't need to do anything to get the doll to move, safe/ish jump ins cuz the doll has aerials, and stupid good damage in the corner. Honestly, Relius is gonna probably be the CS1 Valk of this game, calling it now. I think the one thing that Carl has over Relius is that we have Brio and better midscreen damage/reset potential. That's seriously it.

No, I don't mean I grab, I mean they counter grab you while charging your 6C during RoM. One instant block and they're free to try and grab you if you get predictable with 6C. Doesn't always happen, but there are times where you can't do those traps without accidently getting to close and then you end up eating a grab cuz of it.

The lack of stagger is kind of worrying me too, but honestly Carl can function well without them. 6C stagger was just mainly used so we didn't have to worry about timing moves to combo off fuoco, the rare overhead that we usually just use 2]D[ cross overs for anyway, and the occasional unblockable from RoM for those who don't know how to grab. The one that does worry me is 5C. I loved that move on CH. I might forgive it though if they made it so they can't poke our horse for CH. That was seriously the worst hitbox idea since CS1 Rachel.

I don't know, I kind of figured it'd end up something like this. Imagine if you could j.a from dash hop? It'd be almost an instant overhead. I wasn't expecting that to make it in, so the fact we get sliding normals now is kinda nice. I can imagine that could give some deceitful range to 6B and Viv B. I can also see this being used to protect nee-san from random pokes pretty well now. I'm just kinda worried about cantabile. It looks...slower. I saw it not quite combo Tager at the max range of 6B in that video. I don't know the time, but I know Carl ate a 720 because of it. I think the things we really need to look for right now are his high damage combo's and ways to make his oki 3]D[ worth quick teching to avoid. Edit: I couldn't find this anywhere, but what exactly are the specs on Nirvana's meter now? Is it really just moves takes less energy like in the loketests or did her actual meter get buffed in some way? I understand the regen is as slow as the Fernley Pizza Hut guy, but if the meter's got a decent tank size that shouldn't be to much of an issue. I mean hell, it'd almost be like CS1 again if he had it like that, which I'm pretty sure a lot of us liked back then.

That's what I thought at first too, but if you paid any attention, you'd realize he isn't magnetized. I don't see the sparks flying around him at all during that segment, and he's still at full health. I'm pretty sure even if he blocked it, a D Tager move would've have done some chip. I believe that's the dash thing they were talking about. I just hope it can cancel into more things than just normals. Edit: 6:25 of the same vid when he's fighting Bang he slides. Explain that one xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUM9c1CIHs&feature=player_detailpage#t=0s As for the attack during dash thing, you can see Carl around 7:41 doing a slight slide before doing some of his normals. While it may not be a fast overhead like we were hoping, this nicely adds to our pokes. May even help with 2]D[ cross ups if we cancel it into a Vivace B. I wonder how much distance that would get us. Also saw 6]D[ wall bounce mid combo around 5:04, but nothing much impressive done with it. As for Carl overall, I'm ok with how he might end up so far. I also don't see how the oki is so much worse. Sure, it doesn't put them in standing anymore, but we can still combo off of it, so that can still lead to emergency techs and such. It's not CS2 good, but it's much better than nothing like in CT and CS1. I'm still a little disappointed in the damage so far, but it's only like day 4, so Ill give it time. I hope we get to see some 6]D[ wall bounce and 6C ground bounce combo's in the near future. Edit: at around 7:50, Carl whiffs a j.2C on Tager's backdash and still manages to tech the throw afterward. Was this always possible, or did they decrease the recovery of whiffed j.2C?

Yeah, I'll agree to that. I'd gladly let them take the j.B>j.2C link if we could get some damage resistance for nirvana back. Rather be creative with block strings that get a brain dead reset loop. Imo, I picture CS1 Carl with a damage nerf, the j.C, cantabile and 3D change from CS2, and that anima change (with the super armor) from the loke tests to be the ideal Carl. Doubt it will be realized, but a man can dream. But yeah, he is basically CT all over again. Most combos he does can go straight into that reset. Coolest one I saw involved ...>2C>viva>j.B>j.C>loop.

To say it straight, CS2 Carl reminds me of a slightly buffed version of his CT version. Relies on only 1-2 tricks, all-or-nothing, ect. Only reason I say slightly better is because Carl is actually the good part of the deal now, so when nirvana dies we'll only die 5 seconds later rather than 3. It's true, he had a lot more flexibility with his CS form, but he's still more flexible than his CT form. I didn't really care having multiple nirvana attacks in one combo, I just cared that they had some type of synergy that involved intense team work. Rather than being link for combos, nirvana is now a link between combos.

Been going over the last few pages and something has been brought to my attention that we must address. On page 16, there was a link to a "DP safe" reset. Most people shoved this off right away. I understand what it looks like, considering there was another vid where he did get hit by a dp...but what if it actually is dp safe? What if he just merely screwed up an option select with his j.b? It looks like it works in that video, so I was wondering if that could get tested a little more? Honestly, if he has dp safe option select unblockable reset from COMBO...I'm willing to say he is complete bull $%^#. Also, I'm seeing Carl's backdash a lot more as an answer on wake up. Did it's inv. get buffed or something?

I'll try to help with what I can with Carl, but I gotta go through all the new stuff that's happened in the last two months. I leave for awhile and all of sudden it almost seems like Carl + corner = gg or burst.

Hahaha...no. He definitely got hit with the nerf bat. Carl in CS1 is a paraplegic without his nee-san. True, solo carl has about 3 more options now, but with Nirvana being so low on health all the time, nee-san loses one of her main uses (aka human shield), carl is instantly worse at defense. Then, Viv A got nerfed for no inv. Our defensive game has turned into essentially 6A and viv B praying they don't go low. Our offense is worse because if we choose to make her take the blunt of everything like normal, we lose block strings (combo damage is fine, even though it is boring). We literally will be forced to either offensive or defensive game plans solely to make match ups tolerable, which ruins carl's flexibility. I will stay play carl, but almost all of his improv. has left him, which can make him stale.

When it comes to Nirvana using moves, it's really not different, but when people hit her, it literally does about double the damage to her than it did in CS1.

Actually, I'm pretty sure viv b did get an inv. buff. I've known about the head and body inv., but usually it wears out by the time i'm on the other side of tager. Still, this doesn't excite me too much. Lows will stuff that attempt clean for easy damage on Carl. Also, what was going on in Arc System's minds when they gave Carl a fatal counter on his 2C? ~_~

lol that loop at the end confirmed carl still being pretty good damage wise, and didn't even require that much meter. All you need is enough meter for a 6D, the ability to have nirvana on afterword, and a reset if necessary. His damage is fine there and you only needed about 2 nirvana attacks for about 3K plus reset. However, the problem with his mixup still remains as to when he finally catches the opponent. Still, with this, I can be a bit happy since this is something good for our damage without alot of need for meter. Maybe we can save meter for actual mixup rather than damage.

See, problem with that is 9.5 K of health. Sure you can pressure with carl alone, but you're only allowed 2-3 screw ups before you're dead. CS1 tao has the same problems. The thing is, tao never had to commit to a block string. She could just drive midway through for free escape/mixup/crossup. Carl can't do that. If he actually had decent options for finishing off block strings by himself, I wouldn't mind, but he has what, 5b(for not so good escapes or crossovers that every1 and their grandma know), 5C, maybe 6C if you are daring? He completely relies on his nee-san to make it so he doesn't turtle for more than half the match. Since she can't support you as long with her life bar, you'll be going in on suicide missions for a good time or blocking. I do agree she needed a life bar nerf. I've said this. But making it so hits are twice as effective is not the way to go. That's just gonna make carl turtle the hell out of every match, and with his horrid defense either ensure death for him or timeout. I do believe there is plenty of untapped potential for carl still. I still can't believe all the things lambdas have been finding lately that would've been helpful in the Nu days. However, with Nirvana's low resistance to damage, it's gonna be hard to milk anything out of her for the moment. Anyway, who else thinks that the volante crossover in this match is cool? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LSyddF3nT8

In CS1 I can understand what you mean with that. Carl as i always saw it was a character that focused on flow, much like ragna, but to a much more exaggerated extent. He has a hard time getting it, but once he does, pressure was ridiculous, damage was high, and mix up went from either nuts to unblockable. CS2 He traded both his pressure and damage for oki, which is going to hurt him in the end. I would have understood a slight nerf to Nirvana's health if they gave him oki, because otherwise his flow would never stop (combo/pressure>reset/big damage>oki>repeat), but taking away half of it destroyed his pressure, which hurts his mixup and ups his risk. I don't care so much about his damage considering universal damage nerfs across the board. As Akira said, we still do dam well mid screen compared to most of the cast. I hate the fact Nirvana took such a huge hit to her life bar. That's the nerf that is gonna worry me more than anything. As for the nerfed viv A, the more I think about it, so long as 6A becomes a realistic AA, I won't be too saddened from its nerf. People usually approach carl from the air anyway from the usual CNO setup so this could work to our advantage.

Personally I never found going for the high damage combos to be the best venture for carl. I always found resets to be more key to his game than damage. But with nirvana's meter cut in half resets won't come about that often. I'm sure he will still do fine with all these weird changes (j.C is the most interesting one imo, could open some Air>ground stuff), but he is going to have a lot more risk since he can't rely on nee-san nearly as often. I would've taken Nirvana meter > damage anyday because of our low health AND less than amazing defense.

Her clone thing can work just about any situation, resetting pressure, baiting, cross-ups, mixups, and even throws. Read any of em wrong and you're in for a good 3K. Of course, these are all lot easier to re-act to than anything carl can do. Her's are all not very fast and she will be probably just be baiting more than anything. The only thing i don't like about her is her projectile. It, unlike everything else in this game, goes straight through nirvana and will hit carl. It also wall bounces, breaks primers, can be used as a reset, is fast...in other words, it's bonkers. I've even seen this thing used to stop jump ins if they don't hit it so it can be used defensively. I'm surprised i haven't seen this thing spammed yet. Nirvana in any way is a relatively good way to scare them away from using it, but if they're persistent this projectile can easily screw over anything you may be trying to do. Just watch out for it and act accordingly. I also agree with the 5/5 match up for now, but i think that her range may end up making this worse for her in the end.

I've played this match on both sides, and honestly mu feels like she has the advantage with 3.5/6.5. Her air game or really her j.C stuffs just about any approach you can make, so if you both jump, i suggest trying for a brio. If they think you're gonna airdash, they usually will just j.C and that nets you a CH for some type of oki. Mu's also generally play safer with carl, so instead of doing a risky 6B(cartwheel), i've seen plenty who just summons one stein mid block string and then jump cancels into either back air-dash or j.2C. If you see them summoning a stein mid blockstring, they are probably JCing so prepare yourself with an AA of some kind. Honestly though, the fact they can still maneuver well while summoning steins makes this game of tag a little hard. She can just run, summon a stein or two, then immediately head on the offensive. If she manages to land one hit, that's about 2k with good oki (meaning you lose 1-3 primers), 4k with the corner, or 5k with 50 heat. If you manage to block, she has enough moves with good block stun that she can just summon a stein and repeat the process. I think the goal in this situation is to try and make her miss one move of her blockstring. Most of her moves are monstrously punishable on whiff since they can't cancel into the steins that way. If you ever think she is going to 5C or 6C you in her blockstrings, a vivace that. It leads to insta-sandwich their whiff is so long. These are both characters who can rather safely approach characters. She is less powerful and doesn't have mixups from hell, but she is faster all around and has better ranged tools than you. She will have the easier time approaching you if you play defense than vice versa because of this. I can only say start on the offensive asap because a couple of lazers affecting your movement in any way can lead to a huge disadvantage very quickly.

I would say right around arakune in the b-tier. Not sure if above or below at this point. also there is still the possibility of her getting something insane however that is unlikely at this point. She consistently lands above 2.4 K and although im sure some of it might be inexperienced players, but some people still will eat a CH236D for easy reset. It's not hard to break primers for her, i'd say she's actually the third if not second best character at the job. Her oki is just scary, pure and simple. Her zoning (combined drive and C normals) while not on lambda's level, is still enough to make it incredibly annoying to approach her, and is possibly some of the safest zoning in the game (i reacted to a D Ice car with 5D and still managed to jump cancel block in time.) However, her higher damage possibilities require really specific set-ups that are rare in itself (when are we going to land a point blank 3C for that 4k meterless?) and she is rather lacking in the speed department for some of her normals. Her mixup, while not bad, does leave a lot to be desired with options out of it. All of my friends literally only feel like blocking low to her since she can only get 1.7K on an overhead without meter. Also, i'm not sure if it's just me, but her dp seems to clash with a lot of moves, making it an unreliable reversal.

Actually, I finally decided to stop being lazy and checked ara's combo thread. It turns out that j.214214D>5D>j.A>j.B>j.C>j.D works despite the height requirement. This could easily make ara rise up in the tier list. The only problem is that the opponent is out of combo at that point. How much curse meter would ara need to make around 8K of damage? He would need to waste some of his time getting around the opponent's blocking, but it is still an effective re-curse theory. About the dive after the j.C thing, I don't know exactly what it is, but there is something about a hit-box issue that either makes this difficult or impossible. It hit them consistently but the 5D doesn't always work. It works every time in the corner however.

True, that's why they took it out in CS lol. Idk, curse mode seems pretty much complete without being broken in CS, i'd just say that he needs one more good ranged ground normal and his character is set. Then again he just needs better normals in general.

I can honestly only think of one good approach. Back way the hell up along with nirvana. Make sure to get out of all his ranges or else this tactic is of no help. Start up a volante, then do IAD shenanigans to close in on him. When you get within his range start blocking. If he doesn't do anything immediately you can either get in closer if you feel like you need to or apply pressure and fast. If he decides to start pressure/zoning you, even if the off chance he hits volante with his sword mid-block string, it's pretty rare. The volante that was behind you usually throws off his rhythm of whatever and you can start pressure games from there. This will probably get predictable after awhile but it's a good start.

I honestly think they should nerf the amount it gives you to about 20% curse, but have the ability to give it even in the middle of curse mode. It would give him a good proration starter for his combo and he would get a little more time for combos as well.