Afro-Demon

214B hits low on first hit. ice car can no longer be used in the air. sekkajin gets a stagger rather than a launch, and even the minimum time to get out of stagger you still have adv. if you don't do follow up, and follow up launches and I think it's comboable? Hard to tell in that mess. And also not 100% sure but I swear I heard "shake ice" is back. This game is just getting weird now. Everything I've ever known is a lie about BB.

That's why I have a laptop. And also I'm pretty sure ctrl down arrow key inverts program screens anyway. Also, could you keep an eye out for Azrael for my friend. He won't shut up about him and I can't find anything about him.

Find Carl stuff and Tager stuff. That is all unless they are like "Trololol here are the murakumos everyone."

Speaking of which, what's the tube channel? I can't find the vid anywhere on basic searches.

To be fair, not every character has been constantly been getting shat on. Tager's been always getting buffs, despite him always being shit, and Carl has found at least 4 different ways to remain in A- tier lol. True, some system changes were weird and there were some damage nerfs across the board, but do you even remember CT damage? Nu 2C>j.C>j.2C>j.C>j.2C>j.214D hit over 4k. It needed some adjustment. More on topic, I don't even think half the nerfs are going to stick, but I would love to see some love to haku's counter mechanics. I mean, that's part of what makes haku unique, so I think it should at least be good. And I'm worried about Crush Trigger as well. I mean, it literally says "Fuck you Tager" written all over it.

6 videos is plenty good news. I've sat through watching most of the horrors of youtube, a screwed up video ratio won't scar me. still, one minute is 100 mb? might be tempting just to go to sleep now...

Situational combo tool doesn't mean unusable. It's a rather good psuedo oki, like someone mentioned before, and would probably work well with the faster fuoco in the same fashion as it is with j.C. True, you need doll in order to get better damage, but not only did I think that was the original concept of carl (stronger than the sum of its parts), it's also what I remember hearing what everyone wanted of carl. Many complained the last 2 iterations how it seemed like Carl was the main force while you just used Nirvana every once in awhile. Well although it didn't happen in a buff like everyone wanted, now you will have to rely on nee-san a lot more to start getting anything worthwhile. Keep in mind that it seems lots of other characters seem to be getting hit in comboability as well. I mean, Rags can't even dash cancel 5D anymore. I truly wonder how he will get midscreen damage now. Losing 5B jc does suck, but guess what? It's also a loketest. If it does stay, try to mix up your opponent in different ways now. Losing that makes us lose 2 of our what...9 mix up options from 5B. Wait at least until the arcade release to claim carl got hit by a shit storm. Personally, I'd be perfectly fine with the loss of jc 5B if we just got an overhead that we didn't need to use 6B for to get in range.

I'm trying to understand this loke test through the character forums and my mind just keeps blowing up. I don't even know with the Carl changes. Highly sped up fuoco, anima attack grab, non jc-able 5B, and cantabile only combos with doll around...and yet we get like 4K of off like 6-8 hits meterless. Maybe the game is taking down the combo counter and upping the damage counter? Idk, it's too freakin' weird to contemplate everything atm.

...I can't believe that I didn't notice this sooner. This is revolutionary. I can...actually understand the announcer voice. Instantly makes this a good buy.

You can see lambda/nu's crest in the chest of this thing at the end of the trailer. So the character style is most likely still around. Edit: Concerning Carl's OD, while I can understand him being the hardest character to pick up, it still needs to not only cater to lower levels of play, but higher as well. Oh well, let's hope the strength up is rather significant then.

Anybody have an idea when some footage is gonna be put up? I know they aren't exactly allowed to film it but that's what it was like for extend and we still got some pre-emptive clips to bide our time. All three characters have something that looks interesting to me. Azrael has Slayer dash + weak point system. Bullet from reading up on her sounds either scary or awesome. We are either getting attack-throws KOF style, or a somewhat possibly mobile grappler. And Amane has range attack reminding me somewhat of Axl.

I thought that at first, and then I thought that's a little to broken. I mean, with unlimited Nirvana you get easy free unblockables. Fuoco literally lasts long enough for me to fully charge my horse for a free combo. Oh well, guess we'll have to wait and see whether his OD is weak or braindead good. I really hope that the Murakumo's are just gone for redesign purposes though. They were easily some of my favorite playstyles.

Wouldn't doubt it. Well that, and the image 3:03 in the trailer video has me skeptical. Lambda did like disintegrate at the end of CS, so maybe it's time to see the appearance of Kappa-10. On a side note, what does it mean for Carl's OD when it says "strengthen up Nirvana?" Because compared to bang getting FRKZ, Rags getting non health drop BK, and Ara getting an extended curse, Nirvana only getting a damage increase seems a little....meh.

That 8.5K with 150 meter looks more practical than the one with Val Tus. Trying to start a combo with Val Tus looks like trying to start combos with Carl 2C. If your opponent has a pulse it aint gonna happen. At least the 150 heat one starts from an anti air of sorts. As far as Relius goes I'll say this wall of text. He'll probably have around the same technical demand as Carl in the end because of the shadow mechanics, but because he's more RTSD and the doll has auto-movement he will almost be brain dead strategy-wise compared to Carl. Carls have to worry about set ups, positions of everything on the field, and hopefully getting that 4/6/41236 ]D[ so that he can start his pressure and mix up, and much more which I won't go into depth about. Relius' only matter is "do I have meter or not?" If so, RTSD time and pry an opening. If not, play some smart defense so you don't get hit/cornered. In the end, Relius will be a great RTSD character and most likely better and easier than Carl overall, but his poke game is rather dependant on doll to make it threatening and doesn't last as well as Carl's in that department. I see Relius' main problem down the road being block string mix ups. He's got ok oki , but after that his only really good overhead is his 6A. Doll overhead might be good later on but I don't know long Relius can keep pressure to make that into a good blockstring, and even if you can combo well off it. If so, however, then he may shoot straight to the top. He's really strong already and he still has a lot of un-tapped potential. Carl will most likely be his worst match up funny enough, because both dolls have projectile immune hitstun and the doll attacks are considered projectiles. I can already see the Duo Bios vs. RoM in my head. Mid screen battle hilarity is sure to ensue. However, Carl has better screen control with his puppet so it will be much easier for him to get into pressure, and with Led Ley being Relius' go to defensive measure in pressure, it won't be easy to get around Carl's high attack rate. Second worst I have no clue on, but zoning won't be too much of a problem once his meta game develops IF the above mention of projectiles don't even hurt her health is true. Hell, if that's true, Lambda's are dead because of him. He'd have an auto approach tool on her and he could blow her up easy with her "defense".

This thread was made so that this topic talk, ect. would be kept out of the character discussion threads. In other words, only for idiots to flock here instead of where I actually learn things.

Oh ok I see what you're saying now. I don't think Led Ley will work out that well on dp baits if you're going to retaliate with the doll. The doll will just increase the active frames on a dp and make it so it might still hit you. Maybe if you delay the doll attack till the dp is in recovery. But yeah, I'd agree it raw is more helpful than Vivace.

I only really get on in between games. I'm rarely here upon release for obvious reasons. Also, how would Ignis already be summoned? If Relius is knocked down, I'm going to assume he was hit, and I'm pretty sure she disappears when he gets hit. I'm so confused. Edit: I'll be back in an hour. Gotta show my friend how Rachel's astral is completely useless against all characters.

I'm pretty sure meaties would eat Led Ley pretty well. I mean, I know Ignis is fast, but I don't think she's fast enough to beat out most meaties when Relius has to neutral tech, summon her, then attack, even with that fast punch move. It might be possible, but I still say it's a long stretch if anything. Anyway, back to Carl. Should we start compiling an actual change list somewhere? It might be nice for those who haven't been following along and might want to know Carl's general direction as far as how he's changed, especially since it might get confused with some of the wishlist stuffs going on around right now.

I think the only outrageous calls I made in this list would be Relius at the top, Litchi at the bottom, and possibly Tager. Relius is a beast. Think Carl, but with more health, more primers, better movement, more range, more damage in the corner, a fast doll with even faster health regen, and safe/ish jumps because of doll aerials. It think the only thing he loses to Carl in is mid screen reset potential and cross over ability. He currently gets 3K mid screen and I heard somewhere that he could reach 7K in the corner with meter. I'll try to find that video. He's completely new, so his ability to grow is higher than the others', even with balance changes. He reminds me of CS1 Valkenhayn. Just pure destruction because of the numbers he can chug out and has a very effective game plan. Litchi from what I've been reading on her boards say that she has gotten some overall damage nerfs, and her videos do show it. She lost her j.b>j.c>j.b tricks which accounted for some of her most damaging combo's in CS2. It's quite possible that I may be underestimating her though, considering I don't follow her thread as much as others. Tager...being good...I thought was a myth. However this time, he actually seems adequate. Quite a few of his attack levels got increased. He can make combos now from about any starter, including his 5A. His 3C although no longer gives hard knockdown, is special cancellable and is better jump prevention because of it. His Voltic Charge has been buffed to where some speculate that it can be used as an anti air>720. And while his magentized combo's deal slightly less damage than before, his heat gain is incredible. If you're magnetized and he hits you with 5A, he can get 63 heat from the combo from it. He can save it, or finish the combo with Magna Tech Wheel...everytime. That would be a consistent 4K so long as you're magnetized. I know this won't make him really good, but he's definitely not terrible now with these changes. Edit: AGAIN, please remember to post reasons for claims some consider outrageous. I know this thread will turn to shit and probably closed in a day or two, but try to keep it civil, on topic, within reason, and based on current information. This is only a speculation thread, and not in any way a foretelling of what may truly be to come as the real tier list for BBSCSEX.

I figure that this thread will just become terrible in a few days time. It's also really too early for any good speculation to happen for tiers. I'm just putting this up as something like a garbage bin so we can keep the tier fanboy talk here and not in character gameplay threads. I'll post the phony japanese one for lulz and then one I've been thinking about from all that I'm hearing on the character boards. Dislcaimer: Please try only to post with validity and reason. If you're gonna put a list of your own, explain some of the odder choices you have with reason. Don't want flame wars if possible and stay away from anything else that will derail the thread. Keep in mind that this thread is just pure speculation, and that the information provided throughout is based on such, so do not get carried away with reactions and try to just understand that these are more opinion than fact. Please only post factual information based some evidence, such as the JBBS, match videos, ect. Let the banter begin. Dice Generated list S: Hakumen, Mu-12, Taokaka A: Platinum, Rachel, Arakune, Litchi, Tager, Valkenhayn B: Makoto, Ragna, Hazama, Jin, Lambda-11, Noel, Tsubaki C: Bang, Relius D: Carl My tier list that no one cares about. S:Relius, Hakumen A:Valkenhayn, Mu-12, Taokaka, Hazama, Jin, Noel, Carl, Rachel, Bang B:Platinum, Tager, A-11, Arakune, Makoto, Ragna, Tsubaki, Litchi I'll be too busy with school to actually watch this thread, so have fun with your pointless talking. I just want this to stay in here and NOT in the character discussion threads where I actually read stuff.

I thought Tager was still gonna be the worst, if not second worst...until I saw that meter gain o.o wtf? Tager could MTW every magnetized combo now. That's nuts. Especially since I think I saw him try to continue an MTW once by 3C AC whiff. Can't really say how far that'd go, considering the length and we couldn't see the rest of the combo since it killed him before he could finish, but there's hope. Honestly though, that's just silly. Tager for A tier maybe? Doubtful, but I just can't see him being ass this time with that meter gain from 5A. Since MTW combo's generally get to around 4K, that's much better midscreen damage than most of the cast now, so he might finally be considered a heavy hitter now. Even if it does require heat, it's not like it's that hard to get back. Anyone know how much we can get from a throw magnetized?

Anima being a command grab does sound bullshit to be perfectly honest. Sandwich them then tick command anima from 2A> Vivace B sounds like Bang shenanigans, except we get like 4K off it + possible oki. I liked the whole super armor idea. Stops that run up>poke>run away thing every character does in CNO. I'd like our astral to be basically the same but with more range. I want it to be almost one to one and 1/2 screens in diameter. That way the opponent actually feels a need to have to the to try and rush out. I can't tell you how many times I tried to astral someone and they'd just hold to the edge of the screen because I over estimated that thing's range yet again. I swear to god the edge of that explosion doesn't even count as part of the hit box. And I say Arakune's is better than ours. His actually kinds fits him in the frightening aspect if he's both invisible and has curse. That's just death. I think I'll post all the moves Carl needs better to be the perfect Carl in my eyes at the bottom. As for the reset game, the only way that I could see it stronger is because of Nirvana's meter not being ass now. We don't have to stop pressure and mix up just to save nee-san as much anymore, so in that regard we do have a bit better reset potential, but otherwise I say he's about the same. Also, Led Ley looks much more ass then Vivace. Sure it has full invuln for the body, but it's free to CH on start up and mashing 5A will eat that thing cleanly, even with the system change. Moves I want better Viv A - make it CS1 good again. Anima - super armor 8]D[ - CT good would be nice. Astral - Make it a threat Fermata - I want the game freeze to last long enough that I might be able to use it's air unblockable properties for cool resets yes please thank you.

I never said Carl would be bad. I just wanted certain moves to have some buffs. Is it too much to ask for a useful astral?...Relius is over 100 years old? Missed that in the story mode. Also, another thing I forgot to mention why Relius is kinda gdlk. Most of his doll moves don't have a half a year's worth of start up. The only slow ones he has are the overhead, the low, and the one that teleports behind the opponent. Carl's only fast ones are Brio and Volante. Looking at both of their characters though, it seems they are both shadow characters with different playstyles in mind, so I like it so far. Carl acts more as a zoner/spacing character, while Relius has better RTSD qualities. It'll be interesting to see match between them. And that brings to mind...why haven't we seen one of this match up yet? Edti: After looking around the other forums, it's quite possible he'll still end up really high on the list. More than half the cast are suffering from significant damage nerf's mid screen while we can still chug out roughly 3k per combo plus reset. Raw damage might be what keeps us viable. The only characters who still do good mid screen damage are Relius, possibly Bang and Makoto cuz of their new shenanigans, and a couple others who didn't get nerfed that bad like Lambda, even though her good mid screen requires either 214D or 214A air hit.

Shippu is looking to be a high damage punish for projectile. 9:42 on this video he uses it to beat out 214D from Mu. Scroll a little back if you want to see what she was doing pressure wise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB2s6Ulz6l0

That clash at 11:40...I wonder if that means it got a better hitbox since it clashed with ID. Might've just been coincidence, but honestly 2D looks alright so long as it at least puts them in some kind of stun. Not that it's still not suicide anytime else.