Seiki

I wish you didn't say what it was until the tournament Milln because now some people are going to practice it and it takes away from the wow factor/hype also some of us are not fortunate enough to have a copy to practice with.

Japan has engrish and America has this ^

no one gives a fuck.

ggs astaroth, as always netplay eats my inputs and spits out something else. i.e. dp turns into quarter circle, instead of bang's dp super i get 5a, etc etc. Maybe I'm just not completing the motions or something idk. I learned today that your blockstring of several lows even when perfect blocked is safe against bang because he gets pushed too far even when i try to dash in 5a to punish.

I would definitely hang out at the hotel Kyle but I can't afford to help buy a room.

Reversals aren't just dps. Moves that are very fast or have a lot of active frames can be a reversal depending on the situation. I am not arguing that bang needs a dp or that he lacks in the defense area just because of a dp, I already explained and wont do it again. One or two frames makes a huge difference. In SSFIV AE yun's ex lung punch is +1 on block you know what that means? his jab will beat your jab clean so you are forced to be on the defense unless you do a dp. One frame is what makes amaterasu normals so good. She has one frame less start up on most of her normals than the rest of the cast like her standing H or her crouching jab which is 3 frames while the rest of the cast is 4-7 frames. Balrog's jab is 1 frame faster than any of the other chars in SF and is partly why he is consistently top tier in each SFIV iteration from vanilla to arcade edition. In a game where slow moves are considered to be a third of a second yeah 1 to 2 frames means a lot. Say a move is fairly slow say 22 frames and you increase the number of startup frames by 2 so 24. You just made the move 9% slower. They changed IB in this game from taking off 5 frames of blockstun to 3 frames when I IB now there are a significant number of things I cannot punish just because of a 2 frame difference. A lot of other players also notice this change when they try to IB>punish. For everyone, I'm done arguing.

Star in CS2 is Noel's drives changed in terms of speed?

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear Astaroth i didn't mean to say that tager has good options I just meant to say tager's and bang's yomi game is pretty different to compare.

Good blocking consists of a lot of guessing even if one is to argue finding patterns in the opponent. No one player thinks the same throughout the match so you don't know a true pattern from said player and so you are actually guessing some of the time. And if blocking is partly guessing it is best to have other options that are reliable. You can't just mixup your offense you have to mixup your defense as well. Some characters have options on defense/wakeup that allows them to mixup their defense and "good blocking" doesn't compensate for those options. Aren't Noel's drives faster? or is the cancel faster? I think it's a combination of both I know somehow they made them faster and is part of why she is considered S Actually midscreen damage isn't that bad since he gets 3.2k from the position of where the char starts at the beginning of the round and he has 2.7k corner carry midscreen combos both of these are with 5A starters btw. 5B adds on like 800 damage or so.

was it loud obnoxious and gay sounding?

tier whore it up and play Jin. lulz

Noel also has nice invincibility frames on her drives, good AA, etc. Rachel's character design is meant to play keep away/lock down (in the corner) so why would they give her a good dp? That would be the opposite of trying to reward the opponent who actually gets close to her and initiates an offense after having to work around her projectile and wind. Those two characters don't need a good reversal they have other great options. And actually Bang's defensive options are pretty sub par compared to most of the cast. The most obvious being his drive which is supposed to aid him on the defensive end struggles to be useful even after IB for example his 5d can be hit low and the attack itself has lots of start up so even after i guard point a person can continue their blockstring (for most characters) and hit me before my attack even comes out and even if i teleport the opponent will autocorrect and continue the blockstring which now converts to a combo with a counterhit starter. His 6D's guard point becomes active the fastest of all of his drives but it suffers the same problem as 5d and if you teleport C (which is as far from the opponent as possible) its recovery frames on whiff is worse than ragna's 5D. His 2D is his best overall guard point but it is susceptible to lows and they nerfed the active frames on the guard point so I find myself getting counter hit when trying to Anti air with it or when i use it to IB>2D the opponent's pressure. Eshi what good defensive options are you talking about? And what is it then that makes him low tier?

Well you also have a 720 a 360 atomic collider and MTW so it's not really that great of a comparison. You say blocking and breaking grabs like someone would say "hey just don't get hit" it is more difficult than you put it and I know you as a player struggle to block and break grabs and those overheads? You eat those so I don't know why you are saying they are easy to block. This is just from my experience playing you. My point isn't that you need a reversal. I am saying that he lacks a lot of options on wakeup/on block that the majority of the other chars have and that is partly why he is low tier.

Bang is still a threat...right? >_> I realized why Japan put him with Tager on the tier list. on wakeup he has no reversals except one that costs 50 heat which has no range and all of his normals are slower than the majority of the casts'. His 5a vs other chars 5a his 5b vs other chars 5b etc. Literally on knockdown against makoto and several others like Jin, Ragna, Noel, Tao, etc. I am forced to eat a mixup Nothing on wakeup beats her options. I am also finding I can punish a lot more things with other chars normals (ex. Jin) when I IB compared to Bang where his normals are a tad bit too slow to punish most offensive pressure. But oh well. I've dealt with the BS in CT and I'll deal with it in CS2.

Milln quit being a creeper on teh forums.

Astaroth being an XBL creeper. Seriously dude why no invites to play BB? =( I like CoD cuz it is fast paced and makes me feel like a badass.

We all gotta play dat Blazgreen ~_O

Eshi and Midnight if you guys are staying over at Milln's holla at me so we can get friendlies going at his place since I live 30 mins away from him.

*inserts hype*

For those having trouble with doing the backdash to keep the character in the corner while continuing your combo you don't have to do that for any of the combos that has the part 5B>6C>j.c.>J.4C>j.623B. Instead hold the 7 direction so that Bang jump cancels slightly up and back and then do J.4C>J.623B this way they stay in the corner and it works on all characters so you don't have to worry about the odd timing on the backdash combos for different characters. When you land you have to do 5B pretty early and jump cancel to J.A>whatever air combo.

If anyone has a spare copy of MvC3 or isn't playing it anymore and wishes to sell their copy, preferably cheap, I need a copy. Sadly, I like it.

If it has helped you "improve" your fundamentals then you had none in the first place.

Milln I'll make sure to bring your copy of MvC3 back. I don't even want to play MvC3 anymore, it ruins my fundamentals and makes me a worse BB player =(

"Nah, almost every character's teleport is unsafe (except for fucking Raiden) and most of the projectile spammers can be countered WITH teleports relatively easily. You can bait teleports really easily. And punish them very easily. Same with projectiles. It's a good mix." - Billy Which is exactly my point. The game revolves around teleports and projectiles. Projectiles beat teleports and teleports beat non projectile approaches. As far as teleports being unsafe as long as someone throws out an attack or tries to establish some offense the opponent's teleports are practically safe because I haven't seen a character with an attack that has a hitbox behind them. And teleports are especially safe when you use the ex versions for some which has super armor.

lol MK: when Americans try to make a fighting game. My issues with MK9: *projectiles pass through each other *blockstrings do chip damage *combos do too much damage *Xray does too much damage *buffer system is too lenient, makes for a lot of unintentional inputs *you can make several moves be reversals on wakeup with 8 frames of invul. some of them being relatively safe *Several characters have a teleport which ruins the spacing aspect of the game to some degree. *As the metagame progresses I see it boiling down to this: projectile game --> teleport in ---> blockstring----> jump away ---> rinse and repeat As you can tell from the tier list already characters who don't have a projectile suffer greatly and those who don't have teleports also do but not as much as those without a projectile. Unless they do some dramatic changes the game will be flushed out in a year.