Airk

Two frames as long as they are crouching, so if you launch them or something, you lose it.

I was concerned you were trolling us after the first round there, but you're right, this is pretty awesome.

This isn't really right; The difference between a counter hit and a fatal counter is that a CH only adds a bonus to the move that you hit with - after that, the combo proceeds normally. Fatal Counters add two frames of hitstun to ALL moves in their combo, so you can do stuff later on that wouldn't have worked off a "normal" counterhit.

I think technically this thread is the wrong place since this is the "terminology" thread, but I'm sure a mod will find your post a good home. Depends on what "other fighters" you want to separate from. Mechanically, there are some super obvious things - airdashes, double jumps, air blocking - that separate it from a game like Street Fighter, but not so much from a game like Marvel. Seperating it from Marvel is the "Revolver action" (aka "Gatling") system of cancelling normals into other normals in a...moderately more complex fashion than Marvel's simple chain. BB also has a lot more 'command normals' - normals where you hold towards and press a button, for example - than most games. The game doesn't really have a single "gimmick" to set itself apart. Though I guess not many games outside of Arc Sys fighters have the burst mechanic. Noel and Litchi are both more "obnoxious" than strong, relative to the rest of the cast. There've been various tier lists kicked around, but in simplest form, it looks like this (no ranking within tiers): Strong: Ragna, Tao, Valkenhayn, Hakumen, Arakune Good: Everyone not in the other buckets Less good: Tsubaki, Makoto Overall the game is pretty balanced, and all characters have a chance to win, but that doesn't mean that some matchups (like Tsubaki vs Ragna) aren't stupid. Use the analog and not the D-pad, or find a new controller. :P You could always go with something from Evil Controllers or something - their 'less fancy' stuff is basically a 360 pad with a less crappy D-pad. :P Sure; Many characters are able to combo into them, and it can be a good way to kill someone before they have a chance to burst if they've held onto one for that long. The Wiki has all you could desire. Okay, so these are some more answer to your question #1. :P Fatal Counters; Some moves are Fatal Counters - if you hit an opponent with one when you would normally have gotten a "Counter Hit" (There are weird exceptions sometimes, where moves are a guaranteed fatal counter even on a non-counterhit, but whatever.) you instead get a "Fatal Counter"; Fatal counters add two frames of hitstun to all further moves in that combo, allowing you to do combos that normally wouldn't work - allowing you, for example, to do things that would normally only combo on a crouching opponent to a standing one instead. (Being in a crouching state adds two frames of hitstun as well, and this stacks with FC.) Instant Block - Block at the "last moment" (within 8 frames of contact) and you reduce the blockstun of the move that hit you by 3 (ground) or 5 (air), and you gain additional heat.

Care to elaborate on this concept so I have another thing that I theoretically understand but don't remember to do? :P I mean, I grasp the idea of using j.BB to "fuzzy guard" (aside: Why do people call j.CC and j.BB "fuzzy guard" - they're just double overheads - I don't think the fact that they work has anything to do with the weird hitbox stuff that happens in fuzzy guards, because you're always low enough to the ground that it doesn't matter.) on jump ins, but where in particular do you suggest it against Tager?

I think this is like, every Tager matchup.

Not...really, since Tager can just sledge through it. This may be a problem with [4]6X stuff too, we'll see. Also, it looks like either the mook, the translator, or the transcriber got something mixed up, because the wiki lists [4]6D ⇒ 236D as "Throw" property, and 6321C as "B, HBFPr(2)"; Looks like those are probably backwards?

But at least they have to punish you in the air, is all I'm saying.

Don't remember. Well, it means that even with only one charge, you have a DP with no landing recovery.

Unrelated, but I just noticed that the C-DP isn't a projectile anymore either. Nice! Huh. And they removed landing recovery from j.236X. Very interesting.

One thing you will rapidly notice that's kinda weird about P4A is that each character has an extremely small number of "normals"; Often just standing A, crouching A, Jumping A, Standing B, Crouching B, Jumping B and that's it. They'll also have some "universal command moves" and some persona attacks (ranging from 3 to a "a lot") in addition to the regular specials, but the number of options available to a character at any given time is smaller than it is in BB/GG.

It's also often not obvious - the only way you can really tell is if you successfully throw from a slightly longer range, or, in some cases, you can hear the audio sample for the move that you cancelled. (This works with Tsubaki's 6C Kara Throw, for example, you can hear her say the phrase for the 6C when you do the throw.)

Considering that the frame data indicates that absolutely nothing has changed with 3C, and -that if you do the math: 3C downs for 40 frames on hit. Recovers for no more than 13. (10 frames 'actual' recovery, 3 unused active frames) and 2C starts up in 24 frames... 24+13=37<40=You can "link"/pick up with 2C after 3C according to the latest frame data. "Changelogs" are basically just "**** people thought they saw while they were screwing around with the character during loktests/early release" and inevitably have tons of bad info in them. Color nerfs across the board in CP. The only good thing to come out of it is the demise of the Velveeta palette.

WHAT IS THIS 3C NERF?!?!11eleven? :P This phenomenon would also explain why Tsubaki is still not good. :P

I'm a little concerned about the current definition for "rushdown" - because as written, Lambda/Nu's 5DD falls into "rushdown" because pushing D twice at neutral may cause your opponent to block. Right now, the definition is too broad and basically covers any attempt to make your opponent block anything, because once your opponent is blocking, you are considered to be applying pressure. I think THAT part is correct (if your opponent is blocking, you are applying pressure) but I don't think that any attempt to do that from neutral should be considered rushdown, because zoning characters also want to "maintain situational advantage from the position of situational advantage" aka "apply pressure". So not all pressure is rushdown. More specificity is needed here.

Isn't that kinda what barrier is FOR?

I agree that their 'balancing' style seems completely inexplicable. They take characters who have innately strong tools (like Tao, Valk, Hazama) and then ALSO give them crazy normals and combos that do no less and frequently more damage than the rest of the cast, and then they seem to balance the characters who DON'T have innately strong tools with this super delicate touch like they're afraid that like, making Makoto good would totally break the game or something. She was no worse in CS2 than any of the earlier 3 mentioned are in CP. Meh. No one answered my question about 3C though; What changed with it?

Yup. Baited once successfully, but don't EVER f-up and drop a combo. Sadly, dropping combos is one of my best skills.

Pfff. Thanks for showcasing my crap execution. You don't really have to be so snide about it though.

GGs Darkranger, I Elyon I, and whoever else stumbled into that room. It's nice to feel like I can both lose AND win honestly. This feeling should fade pretty quickly.

I don't really think ANY character should have a plus jab. So **** you, Hazama, you need serious nerfing. :P Stagger jab pressure should not be any stronger than it is. Also, what is this talk of nerfs for Makoto's 3C? I just looked at the frame data, and it looks exactly the same except the P1 is better?

I think you're talking about two different things; He's saying you need to get a feel for the timing, in the sense that some moves have to be done REALLY FAST and other moves need to be delayed a bit, and other moves have a large amount of leeway. You're saying you need to get this stuff into muscle memory, which is true, but which you can't do until you figure out the timing. You're more or less both right. Tsubaki challenge move combos are okay except for some of the later ones which involve wasting a lot of charges. Still, most of them at least have pieces that you'll be using somewhere else. You can never really learn too many combos for a character. Even learning 'bad' ones will help your execution.

Well, it's not good, because it means they could have escaped, but it's also not bad, because they didn't. :P What's really bad is when the combo drops entirely. It does. But you'll probably want to do it anyway for the time being. It may also be possible to do some of that combo even on a blocking opponent, but I'll leave the answer to that to people who know more about Noel.

I've thought about doing this (This used to be a semi-staple combo in CS2, IIRC), but I haven't put in the practice to get the dash 5C spacing/timing down, so I usually mess it up, which discourages me from trying it later, which discourages me from practicing it. Vicious cycle.

That's kinda the question I'm asking - what -can- you do after the bluebeat 6A? Assuming a basic 5BB > 5CC before the 236D? I guess I can just mess around in training mode and figure it out, but I nowhere near my copy of BB at the moment. :P