cadacus_ater

I got j.2C > j.C to work for two iterations on all characters with a fatal in CS:EX, but it is very difficult on characters like Platinum and Carl, almost to the point of impracticality. Also, the ice car > RC combo was swag there. But what in the world was he thinking with that AA 2nd hit 5B to 6A? Hoping it was a slip up....

I'm not lolcpframedata...just QQreleasedateplox and QQamericanconsolereleasenao... *looks to see if coast is clear* *reads frame data* All joking aside, I've never been serious about frame data yet. I'm more concerned with hitstun decay, damage and heat. Should probably pay a little more attention to it than I do to make safer resets and frame traps...lol. I've kinda been doing w/e with my Jin these days.

Well, they had to take something away from us to give these beautiful gifts, lol.

Right now, excluding Tetsuwo, I'd rank them like this: 1. Fenrichi 2. Ronitta 3. Euro 4. Churara 5. Jo-jin I haven't really seen enough of Jo-jin to place him higher than some of the others like Euro, but he looks really solid...though a bit mashy imo. Fenrichi and Ronitta are nearly tied for me as well, but I like the solid damage and combo versatility of Fenrichi a little more than Ronitta's resets. Euro and Churara are really close too, but I like Euro a bit more for using Hizangeki > AD.

And this is why I fail to understand people who say Bang is low tier, lol.

I've just discovered that...stuff > (2D or 6D) > (forward) jump > (fall) j.2C > j.C > dj.2C > j.C > stuff...works on all characters in CS:EX without a FC, except Rachel, Platinum and Carl, because their standing hitboxes are too short. It's very demanding in timing, as you must double jump at just the right height, but once you get it down, it's relatively easy. I'm guessing it could work in CP in much the same manner, except we might have to add Bullet to the list of characters it won't work on.

I'm already training myself to burn meter in EX, lol. Have meter, will freeze.

^ This all the way. I want to be able to j.2C > j.C for my throw combos too cause it looks slick...the throw freeze isn't long enough in EX

I'm not hugely disliking the time based hitstun decay, but it is gonna take some getting used too. Might take more work than I thought optimizing my freestyles, lol. I agree that shorter combos are a plus. It helps with the pace of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf-K17Pq2-U#t=39s This time based combo drop stuff is slightly irritating. It could be great for resets, but if you want to complete a combo with standard oki it seems you'd better know your stuff. That combo should have been around 23 proration (translating to -2 hitstun in CS:EX) when Goro blocked 5C, so unless they changed the hitstun decay, it seems time based drop is the culprit.

To be fair, I don't think many characters can do 5k without burning any meter or using an OD in CP. Arakune, Hazama, Bullet and Relius are the only ones I think could do that much. Perhaps Carl and maybe Tager too, but I'm not so sure about them. Jin's strength this time around seems to lie in his tools, ease of use, and high rewards for meter consumption. Being a jack-of-all-trades that is easy to use and with respectable damage goes a long way. Sekkajin and rehhyou are better for ending in terms of oki I think. Musou (2) is better for meter gain. Not sure about Hisangen oki...it looks like it could be good if spaced right, but I don't know how fast the opponent is allowed to get up from the knockdown. It's definitely good for damage though. That 8181 damage combo looks like you need at least 84 heat to start. 7k off of TK Hizangeki in the corner starting with 85 meter? I like it! Also, lol at 6C > OD > 6C and CH Hiyoku > Hiyoku.

So it really is a kind of proration system for heat gain.... I noticed that most starters seem to cut heat gain down immediately by about half, but off a CH 6C (registered as giving 7 heat in this case, so it likely has a heat gain between 6 and 7), 214B gave about 4 heat...close to its max value (which seems to be some decimal value greater than 5). After said 214B, 5C > 6C > 6D > 6C > 22C > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.2C > j.C > j.214C gave approximately 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 heat, totaling about 33 heat gain for the whole combo (obviously decimals are involved, but I can't measure them from one combo in a video). For comparison, CH 6C > 5C > 6C gave about 7 + 3 + 4 heat. (EDIT: Similarly, 6B also looks like a good starter for heat gain.) Starter CT looks like it gives about 3 heat, lol. It still reduces heat gain for a number of frames, like all heat consuming moves. I'm loving that we can confirm falling j.B into 2A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdINNgBsdtc#t=7m14s. Also, I'm under the impression now that Hiyoku and Air Hiyoku are the same in terms of damage, P1 and P2, but of course Air Hiyoku has lower min proration.

Well...the following heat gain observations may or may not astound you. I'm still scratching my head about it. If it's already been discussed, I apologize. I haven't seen any mention of it. So I was watching the video above and I got bored and looked at heat gain.... I then noticed starter 2B gives about 3-4 heat, starter 5B(1) gives around 2-3 heat (with 2nd hit, it is about 3-4 total), starter 5C, 2C, j.C and j.2C each give about 5 heat, starter 6C gives about 5-6 heat, starter 3C gives around 4 heat.... However, as a non-starter, all these attacks give less heat than that. Seems like almost every attack gives about half the heat they do as a starter in a combo shortly after the starter. This 'half gain' seems to decay further though, as in longer combos I noticed j.C and j.2C giving about 1 heat when used farther in a combo, but around 2-3 when used earlier. Also, the decay does not end on a blue beat. Indeed, blue beat seems to very harshly reduce or even cause zero heat gain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRiHveUFqM0#t=20m3s). Perhaps this further decay begins after around 5 attacks, maybe around 6-8 hits in, or it may even be time related? Not sure what the trigger is yet and have no idea whether or not it is slightly dependent on the attacks used. Also, air throw, back throw and forward throw give about 10-11 heat, fubuki starter gives about 6 heat and rehhyou starter gives about 8 heat. 214B gives about 5 heat as a starter, about 2-3 heat earlier in a combo and about 1 heat later, where C followup seemingly gives about 8-9 heat no matter how far into the combo. Remarkably, CT looks like it gives a little heat back, unlike most moves that use heat. EDIT: Well...looks like blue beat penalty applies to purple throws too...which give about 5 heat as the first attack.

I think it can do that even in EX, but I could be wrong. I know if you use stuff like 236B at really close range it will whiff completely since it doesn't attain active frames until it passes through the opponent. This is probably a case of being too close and the ice blade traveling too fast. If so, Hishougeki is still in its start up frames so it passes through without hitting Nu for a while.

inb4 someone suggests j.632146D > RC > j.214C at point blank, lol. Highly doubt that would work...probably wouldn't let you RC early enough to even do it....

Yeah...I have that problem on Makoto, Rachel, Valkenhayn, and especially Tager. Really hate that their aerial hitboxes are so unfriendly to the DP loop.

Yeah, you can only combo CH 6A into 66 5B. I have seen Tetsu do a blue beat with CH AA 6A > 2B...it's probably not a legit combo route anymore, but I can still hope he was just a tad slow (unlikely), lol

I share your sentiment...the landing recovery is why I started not using them much. The risk vs reward wasn't very good in many cases, though there are always some exceptional instances where it was nice to have. I will probably miss j.236A/B and the coverage of the old j.236D at first, but I'll get used to it.

Sorry for double post...but I got Touga Hiyoujin's damage and proration. Matches 2295 starter damage for 5 hits, 2D > Touga (51.7 prorated Touga), 623D > Touga (41.4 prorated Touga), and min damage observations perfectly. Given in Damage, P1, P2 format: 700xN 100% 92% (P2 applied after each hit, 25% min proration, for 175 x N min damage) EDIT: Basically, P2 got buffed 80 > 92 from CS:EX Also, here are the damage and proration values I'm getting for OD Touga followup. Note P1 is assumed...but it shouldn't matter as I doubt you can do the followup w/o a successful OD Touga, lol: 400, 400, 400, 1000 100% 92% (P2 applied after each hit, 25% min proration for first three hits, 30% min proration for last hit, for 100 + 100 + 100 + 300 = 600 min damage) This predicts the 867 damage done by OD Touga followup after a 5 hit starter Touga and satisfies the 600 total min damage observed.

Yeah, j.2C had 89 P2 in CS:EX, lol.

Well, just call it Fubuki since there is only one now, lol.

Not gonna lie, that writeup helped me immensely Moy. Thanks a bunch! Loving 214A > Backdash stuff.

Yeah...I saw that and was like, "Dang that is nice."

Lol, Arakune B tier and Amane C tier? I don't think so. There's no way to tell anything for sure yet.... I think we pretty much have to wait until we get the game, maybe longer, to have a solid grasp on tiers.

Yay, CH 5B(1) > 6C still works Tetsu, you are my hero