Fluck

4D isn't full body invuln, there's footage of it losing to foot attribute attacks. It would be stupid for it to be full body invuln anyway, and I'm sure such a change would have been reported almost immediately. I think there's greater horizontal distance gained when you 4D which caused belial edge to whiff.

Oh, I see. Yes, that is just awful then.

In addition to what Luna said, even Tager can just tech forwards after 6C (1) and he'll be out of the corner.

Any hints about the timing and what beats these safe jumps? Will rolling forwards/backwards midscreen/corner allow you to avoid the safe jump?

AXIS said what I wanted to say. I'd rather be in neutral than in gadget oki, maybe it's just me. 5C beats backdash. Like I said, backdash doesn't beat everything, it beats two things. There is no catch-all option against oki, otherwise what would be the point of offense?

It depends on the height and distance but as Luna says, it tends to switch sides more often than not. If you're dropping combos cause you don't know which way to do the d.6D afterwards, just input 6D normally anyway and Noel will auto-correct the direction d.6D goes in.

It's the only option that Noel has that beats 5A outright as it gets her out of Tager's mix-up. You can block 5A but that's really only a draw - it delays the situation as you still need to guess between the 360/Atomic Collider/etc. afterwards. That is enough to make it useful. Tager has other options that beat backstep, obviously, but just using backstep will make Tager think twice about using 5A and this is what allows your other options to remain viable. I'm not saying backdash is your default go-to option, but it has its uses and you're only handicapping yourself by dismissing it.

Actually, we are both right. Noel can backdash out of the earliest possible 5A after GF if the timing is right. I confirmed this in training mode with my A button set on turbo. However, you are right in that Tager can alter his timing to beat that. I would still backdash if I think Tager is going to 5A. Backdashing also beats 360s. http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/systemGuide/systemData.html Noel definitely has better backdashes than Makoto, Ragna, Haku, Tsubaki and Hazama. If you look at Tao's backdash stats, Noel's don't actually appear much worse. The 2 added invincibility frames Tao has are very important, but the extra distance Noel has can be helpful too. Litchi's normal backdash is completely inferior, save for the fact that you can backdash again on frame 17 (but I'm sure you were referring to the additional backstep).

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but backdashing will beat 5A after Gadget Finger, so it's your go-to option if Tager is getting predictable. I've always believed that there is a hard counter for each of Tager's options after GF. Noel's backdash is actually not bad imo, it's just that backdashes in general aren't that strong in this game.

On your wake-up? Well, obviously if you got hit by 3C you guessed wrongly. The mix-up is a guessing game. Tager has options that beat backdash too...

Well, in the first place, you won't normally be knocked down by Tager since he has Gadget Finger, but the GF and knockdown situations aren't that different cause I'll always neutral tech VS Tager unless I'm not magnetized or he doesn't have 50 heat. If Tager has oki on you in either form then you have to guess anyways, since he is still a grappler. So if you guess a command grab, then you might as just hold up immediately. His mix-up options aren't reactable at all.

Then you didn't hold up fast enough :P

You are throw-invincible on the first frame of your jump start-up. Meaty command grabs don't work if you neutral tech and hold up. If you somehow get grabbed then either you didn't hold up fast enough or you got fucked over by netplay lag.

Already listed as OS against wake-up Gold Burst (and Rehhyou)

Rolling will lose to a 720 if you're magnetized when you're knocked down. In such a case, just neutral tech and hold up.

Oh yeah, I know that. But it's a good move to keep in mind and I feel that Jins basically never use 5D. It helps to keep Noel guessing.

5D rapes every single button Noel can press. The only counter is for Noel to make it whiff (footsies!) and get in.

You can do stance mix-up after 214DA too. You pretty much can do like whatever lol.

Ok. I checked as well and even when I did C~A+B (according to the input viewer) DP still didn't come out. I'll take note of those corrections.

Updated. I didn't include the safe jump OS cause I find the set-up rather hard to do in BB because knockdowns don't last long enough. Could you give an example? I didn't bother to list the inputs for each character for some OSes that apply to more than one character but have differing inputs methods such as the anti-forward roll one. I can list them if the mains of each character can provide me with the methods. Keep the OSes coming, guys! All of this stuff is very useful.

I was thinking that character OSes should probably go into their own subforums, while OSes that work AGAINST specific characters can go here, because you usually won't go into a character's subforum to find out what technology works against them. Thoughts?

Hi, I recently had an urge to learn more about OSes in BB so I decided I might as well maintain a public list here on Dustloop so that everyone can share their knowledge to increase the community's general level of play. I really hope we can get a comprehensive list. OSes aren't as important in BB as in games like SF but it's always good to level up your game in whatever way is possible. List: Universal Option Selects Barrier Tech Input: 4/1 A+B+C Explanation: Pressing A+B+C allows you to automatically tech throws within a certain window. If the opponent attacks, you'll barrier block instead. Counter: Throw Reject Miss will allow the opponent to purple throw you during blockstun after the throw break window if he sees the barrier. He can also do a green throw instead, but it's possible to jump out of that if you know it's coming. Misc.: You can fake the OS if your opponent is punishing it by doing a a normal short barrier block. If he purple throws you, you can tech and get out. This won't work if he likes to do green throws instead. Also note that the window to successfully break a throw is much smaller than if you had tried to break the throw normally. (3f window compared to 13f) Barrier Tech CA Input: 1 A+B+C 6A+B. Can be altered with 236A+B or any other inputs that end in 6 like 41236. Explanation: Will automatically tech throws with the barrier tech. If put in blockstun, CA will activate. If opponent chooses to block, 6B (or 236B etc. depending on input) will come out. Counter: CA can be baited. You can be hit out of your 6B or other moves if the opponent does a delayed attack. Misc.: Anti-forward roll OS Input: Varies from character to character. Hazama can do 214214B. Makoto can do 214214D~A+B (plinking A+B after D). Explanation: If the opponent forward rolls, he crosses you up and your reverse inputs activate. Hazama will do Jayoku Houtenjin and Makoto will do Particle Flare. If he neutral techs, he has to block Hazama's 5B, while Makoto will Kara cancel 5D into Barrier. Counter: Will not work on late rolls. Does nothing to beat back rolls or wake-up DPs. Misc.: Cross-up Barrier/j.B Input: 96 (Instant Air Dash) j.3AB after the air dash is completed, crossing up the opponent. Explanation: After a knockdown, input the OS. If the opponent does a wake-up DP or attacks, you will air barrier block the attack. If he chooses to backdash, he will cross you up again and you will catch him with j.B. It's also possible to beat back rolls. Counter: Forward rolls let the opponent get out for free. Certain DDs done backwards will also win Misc.: Whether or not this OS beats back rolls depends on the character's j.B. Non-universal Option Selects Barrier/DP against cross-ups Input: 4214 A+B+D. Only doable for characters with D DPs. Explanation: On cross-up, DP activates and beats the attack. On non-crossup, you will barrier block the attack with one of the 4 inputs. Counter: Cross-up barrier block will allow the opponent to block the DP and punish. The DP won't work on some moves like Jin's j.236D. Misc.: The OS doesn't work for characters with C DPs because the game will prioritize throw over the DP input. OS against wake-up Gold Burst (and Rehhyou) Note that Bang has a better variant of this OS against Gold Burst. Input: Variable. 2A 4B works for everyone except Lambda and Rachel. If your 5A hits crouching you can do 5A 1A or 2A 4A. Explanation: If your opponent does a Gold Burst on wake-up, the meaty 2A will whiff and the gatlinged 5B will not come out. The 4 input will make you block the Gold Burst instead. If the opponent blocks, you can confirm that with those 2 moves and continue into a blockstring. Works on: Jin's 623C and gold bursts. It will work on Jin's 623D if you time your meaty 2A to within 1-2 frames. It also works on Astrals. Counter: No specific counter. Misc.: You can do 2A 1B instead if you're afraid that you will mess up the meaty 2A. That will beat Fubuki B even if Jin manages to get it out. OS against Makoto's wake-up Input: Many characters can do their 2B 5B, but it varies. Carl's 2B is very good for this. Explanation: A meaty low move like Carl's 2B will cause Makoto's DP to whiff if spaced right, because the character's hurtbox is not in range. The 5B gatling will not happen and you can recover and punish the DP. If Makoto blocks, you can confirm the 2B 5B into a block string. Wake-up parry loses to low attacks. Works on: Makoto. Counter: Backdashing can beat the OS. It will also not work on Particle Flare. Misc.: The difficulty of the spacing is dependent on the move. It's a lot harder to do it with Noel's 2B than Carl's. Character Option Selects Ragna 2A/22C after techable knockdown Input: 22A~C Explanation: After a techable knockdown, Ragna will do a 2A if they choose to emergency tech. If they choose not to, he will instead pick them up with 22C for a blue beat combo. Counter: No specific counter. Misc.: Tsubaki 22D Cancel Input: A special into 22C~D. For example, 214D 22C~D. Explanation: On block, Tsubaki will be unable to do 22C and will cancel whatever special she's doing into 22D instead, making the attack safe. On hit, 22C will come out and you can follow up with a combo. Counter: No specific counter. Misc.: DP Cancel Input: 623A/D 236A~D 214A~D Explanation: On block, Tsubaki will be unable to cancel into the A versions and the D versions of the moves will come out, making you really plus on block. On hit, Tsubaki will combo into the A versions normally. Counter: No specific counter. Misc.: Bang OS against wake-up Gold Burst Input: 2A 5B 6D 2B, pianoing everything from 5B with some gap in 2A. Explanation: The wake-up Gold Burst will make the 2A whiff and the gatlinged 5B will not come out. Instead, Bang will do 6D and guard point the Gold Burst and punish it. If the opponent chooses to block normally, the 5B gatling will happen and 6D will not activate because it is inputted during the start-up frames of 5B. Bang will then gatling to 2B to continue pressure. Counter: No specific counter. Misc.: It's a better variant of the universal OS because this punishes the Gold Burst. The universal OS is unable to punish the Gold Burst as Gold Burst is + on block. Makoto OS Parry/3C against opponent's wake-up Input: 2A~5B~46/3C Explanation: If the opponent does a DP on wake-up, 2A will whiff and the gatlinged 5B will not come out. Instead, the parry will activate on the DP. If the opponent blocks you can gatling to 5B and confirm into a blockstring. Replace with 3C to beat Jin's C DP. Counter: No specific counter. Misc.:

Gyuudon posted on his blog that Tao is demonic. CA nerf was pretty justified imo :3

You don't have to cross yourself up after doing corner Assault Through. You can crossunder and do 6C and the opponent will be back in the corner. I think I saw maruko do this in the Game Plaza Central videos.

It doesn't need CH. Non-fatal counter hits don't affect the rest of the combo, only the next hit. Also, I don't think the tk Hirentotsu loop is corner only....3C (CH) -> Zaneiga -> 6C -> [66 5C 2C j.2147B] x N??