IndigoNovember

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYbQJ2MCV8o&feature=channel_video_title#t=07m35s What appears to be, if only the second hit of Renka lands on an opponent on the ground, the opponent will not wall-bounce. I'd like somebody else to take a look at it and see if I interpreted this right.

You meant TK Hotaru -> IAD -> J.2c -> 5a -> J.2a , right? The factors that make J.2c -> 2c work seem to be a combination of how high your opponent is when you Hotaru as well as how quickly you Instant Air Dash. You need J.2c to hit your opponent right before you land in order for 2c to link. If your opponent is on the ground, you need to IAD as soon as possible since they fall to the ground very quickly. It's easier to do it on an opponent who was jumping since the opponent doesn't seem to tech until they hit the ground with Fatal Hotaru. Therefore they fall for a longer amount of time, giving you more time to IAD over to him/her. Those were my observations at least. You really should just stick with using 5a in place of 2c though. Unless your execution is perfect, missing the combo every now and then isn't really worth the extra damage.

It sounds like you're jumping too high before you do Hotaru, which is kinda odd since 2147b (TK Hotaru) shouldn't put you too high.

Looks like only the second hit does. Interesting.

It's like they took two of our old combos and put it into one, marvelous. That delay Air Dash was funny.

That'll be hard to find. From what I've seen, most Japanese Hakumen players either play a balanced game of offensive and defensive or mainly offensive, and none use Zanshin frequently and/or completely successfully.

It seems like using 6a instead of Gurren still messes up the combo at times. I've seen several combos dropped with the 6a added in. Weird combo proration stuff I suppose.

It also looks like the attack, if uncharged, happens in the super flash/freeze now. Note how the slash was able to come out before the stein explosion. In CSII the stein explosion would have happened before the slash, negating it's ability to punish.

I'd say a slightly delayed Gurren would work. The slight delay is there so that you don't Gurren your opponent during the invincibility of the back dash. Pretty much anything with good reach would work well I feel. I just normally use Gurren for that (when I can read/react to it that is >__> ).

Indeed it should, (_ _ ) *head -> desk.

6d/5d/2d his 6b? I feel like it's not too hard to react to it. Switch the counters depending on your situation.

For the record you can hit 6134 if you get a Level 2 charge 6c off. New changes are interesting. I look forward to seeing how much/little Hakumen's gameplan changes from CSII.

Feel free to comment on things you think should be changed. I will say that I'm not entirely sure listing Gurren and Renka starter combos is necessary(since I haven't found any special ones, they've just ended up as modified Regular Starter combos), but if anybody wants to do it, be my guest. F.A.Q./Notes This section is for all of the notes that accompany certain combos as well as other questions that are quite common. Q: Help, whenever I try doing so and so combo, the opponent ends up too high in the air. A: Try delaying parts of the combo. Most of Hakumen's combos should be done near the ground, so if you can, try and delay parts so that the opponent falls closer to the ground. [#01] -The IAD J.5a -> J.5b Heavy Carry Combos are hard to execute, but they generally do more damage and carry further than your other options. Until you can perform them with ease, stick to the other options that have been provided. -In the IAD J.5a -> J.5b Heavy Carry Combos, you can replace J.5b with a second J.5a for an easier combo. [#02] (4) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Gurren -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 5c -> 5c -> Gurren -> HOP -> Juggle [2658-4398/1] -You can remove the second 5c for an easier combo. [#03] -The SJ TK Hotaru is done with an input similar to 29 5 2147b during the 2c. [#04] (5) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> HOP 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru -> AD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3481-5209/0.2] -You'll want to slightly delay the TK Hotaru so you have time to air dash after the Hotaru. [#05] -Gurren can be used in place of a [starter] in the Regular Starter combo list. Remember that you cannot do 2 Gurrens in a row without a normal move inbetween them. -If CH Gurren, then you can use Gurren -> 5c as the [starter] for any combo in the Regular Starter combo list. [#06] -Renka can used in place of a [starter] in the Regular Starter combo list, just omit the moves before the Renka. [#07] (3) HOP Hotaru -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3252/0.7] -This combo can only be done with a HOP cancelled into Hotaru, doing a TK Hotaru will not work. -You can replace J.5b with J.5a for an easier combo. [#08] (3) Hotaru -> HOP Gurren -> HOP 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2753/0.25] -Arakune and Tager specific. [#09] (2) FC Hotaru -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3360/0.2] -You can replace the 2c with a 5a for an easier combo. [#10] (3) HOP Tsubaki -> IAD J.2c -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3575/0.3] -This combo can only be done with a HOP cancelled into Tsubaki, doing a TK Tsubaki will not work. -The Tsubaki should be delayed so that it is done as late as possible during the HOP. [#11] (5) Zantetsu -> 5c -> Dustloop [4486/0.5] -If too far away, omit 5c. [#12] -J.2c is height-dependent. If too low, use J.5b instead. [#13] (0) Air Throw -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2737/1.25] -You can replace 2c with 5a for an easier combo. [#14] (0) Air Throw -> 2b -> 5a -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2234/1.2] -This combo is for when you Air Throw too low to the ground and J.5b can't come out in time. [#15] (0) 5d -> 6a -> 5a -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2062/2] -Does not work on Arakune. [#16] (0) 5d -> 2c -> SJ.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2163/1.9] -Arakune specific. Also works on Tager if you do J.5a not SJ.5a . [#17] (1) 5d -> 2b -> Gurren -> HOP 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2105/1.1] -This combo carries farther but does less damage than the combo below. (1) 5d -> 2b -> Gurren -> HOP 2c -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2233/1.3] [#18] (0) 2d -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [1798/2.2] -You need to walk forward a bit before you 6a. -This combo carries farther but does less damage than the combo below. (0) 2d -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [1906/2] [#19] (0) 2d -> DELAY IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [1920/2.2] -Character specific. [#20] (0) 6d -> WALK J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2410/2.4] The timing of the jump is when your opponent stops spinning and begins to fall. [#21] (5) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Gurren -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru -> HOP Level 3 6c -> HOP Corner Loop (1) [4344-6587/2.2] -If you start with 5c you can do Corner Loop (2). [#22] -If you charged a Level 2 or 3 6c, you should HOP before the following 2c. [#23] -You can replace the first 2c with 5b for an easier combo. [#24] (2) Air Throw(2) -> Hotaru -> Corner Loop (2) [4078/1.5] -You may have to HOP once or twice before doing the Corner Loop (2). -The timing of the initial 2c in the Corner Loop is when the opponent falls past the combo counter. [#25] (4) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Gurren -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [4957/1.7] -You need to delay the Tsubaki cancel until right before the third hit of the Air throw occurs. [#26] (8) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> J.5b -> Tsubaki -> J.2c -> Corner Loop (1) [6733-8340/2.2] -Can only be done with 5b or 5c starter. [#27] (4) Zantetsu -> Kishuu -> Corner Loop (2) [5001/1.5] -Kishuu gives you better positioning allowing you to finish Corner Loop (2) easier at the cost of an extra magatama. [#28] -This combo is for when your back is right next to the wall in the corner. [#29] (0) Back Throw -> 5b -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [3130/2] -Arakune, Carl, Noel, Jin, and Taokaka specific. Since the other 0 magatama Back Throw combos don't work on them. [#30] (0) Back Throw -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [2531/1.5] -Rachel specific. The other 0 magatama Back Throw combos don't work on her. -Can also be used for Platinum. [#31] (0) Back Throw -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [2684/2.1] -Platinum specific. The other 0 magatama Back Throw combos don't work on her. -For the J.2a after the 5a, you need to jump 7 in order for her not to cross up. [#32] (2) Air Throw(1) -> Hotaru -> Level 3 6c -> HOP Corner Loop (2) [4926/2.2] -If you can omit the 6c and go straight for the Corner Loop (2), it'll do [4078/1.5] [#33] (3) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2) [5789/2] [#10] -Must be done low enough that Tsubaki combos into 6c. Otherwise just use the combo below. -You can try charging 6c if you believe you are low enough and your opponent's hitbox works. (3) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Corner Loop(2) [5401/1.6] [#34] -For all meterless Corner Counters: make sure you do your J.2c and any other moves as low as possible, if it's too high your opponent will tech. All combos are for the situation where your successful counter throws your opponent into the corner. [#35] (0) 6d -> HOP -> Corner Loop (1) [2790/3.3] -Make sure you wait for your opponent to start falling so 2C can launch. [#36] (0) 2d -> Corner Loop (1) [2468/3.1] -Wait for your opponent to fall a bit before starting Corner Loop(1), that way they aren't too high when you're trying to do it. [#37] (8) 6d -> Mugen -> Shippu [5400/0] -Unburstable combo. Guaranteed 5400 damage. [#38] (8) Throw -> 6c -> Mugen -> (Renka(1) -> Zantetsu(1) -> Kishuu)x5 -> Shippu [8141/0] -Make sure you're not in the corner with your opponent or else 6c will whiff. [#39] (1) (Back)Throw -> Gurren -> Corner Loop (1) [3125/2.2] -This is for if you are not close enough to just do Corner Loop. -You can replace the first 2c in the Corner Loop with a 5b for an easier combo. [#40] (2) (Back)Throw -> 2c -> Renka -> Corner Loop (1) [3798/1.5] -This combo is character specific. -The 2nd hit of Renka must whiff for the combo to work.

Returns from hunting demon's souls beyond the white fog as an Undead. Sorry such simple formatting took so long. Double posting for the FAQ/Notes section. Hopefully we'll still be able to use some of this for more than 2 months (>__>) . Welcome to the CS2 Hakumen Combo Thread! This time around, we will be proceeding to list Hakumen's combos a bit differently. To take into account the numerous new flexibilities of his combos, his common strings will be abbreviated by name. Terms AD = Air Dash IAD = Instant Air Dash (29566) CH = Counter Hit FC = Fatal Counter J. = Jumping or midair Move (example: J.5c = midair 5c) SJ. = Super Jump Move (29) (example: SJ.2a = Super Jump midair 2a) JC = Jump Cancel TK = TigerKnee (example: TK Hotaru = 2147b) [starter] = Can denote any move of Hakumen's or a partial combo leading into this combo. Make sure the starter move can cancel into the following move. [Combo] = Any of Hakumen's combos. List of Common Strings In this section, we will find a list of common combo parts, abbreviated for ease of use to reduce clutter. Let's start off with the most common one. Dustloop: [starter] -> Enma -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c This is Hakumen's main bnb. Learn it well because it is the backbone to all his other setups. If you are new to Hakumen, you may read how to do it here. General Ground Strings: 5a -> 5b -> [Combo] 2a -> 2b -> [Combo] -This only works on crouching opponents. 2a -> 5a -> 5b -> [Combo] General Into Corner Strings: If a midscreen combo carries into the corner you can attach one of the following strings to the end of the combo: [Combo] -> 6c [Combo] -> 5c -> 3c [Combo] -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [Combo ending in J.5c] -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c -In this string you replace the J.5c combo ender with the J.2c at the beginning of this string. Juggle: [starter] -> 5a -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c Corner Loop: [starter] -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c -Omit 3c for oki -One repetition of Corner Loop is "2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c" -More than one repetition can be written as "Corner Loop (2)", for example -Any time a combo uses more than one rep or proration does not permit it, omit "DELAY J.2a" -Each J.2c should be delayed to ensure the rest of the combo works. -In the odd cases where you think your J.2c in a Corner Loop (1 or 2) will not combo, you should use this combo instead: [starter] -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c If doing Corner Loop (2), then Starter = Starter + 1 repetition of Corner Loop. Optimal CS2 Combo List Example of a Combo: (8) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> 2c -> Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (1) [7857/1.6] [#22] -(8) shows how much magatama is required to do the combo. -Air Throw(2) means that after the 2nd hit cancel into the next move. Renka(1) should be treated in the same manner, cancel after the first hit of Renka. -[7857/1.6] shows how much damage is done and how much magatama is regained by doing the combo. ie: [damage/magatama] -[#22] shows that there is a note for the current combo found in the F.A.Q./Notes section. Midscreen Midscreen, Hakumen does not deal much damage without spending precious magatama. The main focus of mid-screen combos should be corner carry as his big damage can be found in the corner. He still has some very useful combos, however. Regular Starters (0) 6a -> 3c [1164/0.3] (0) CH 6a -> J.2c -> 3c [1574/0.6] (0) CH 3c -> 2b -> 5a -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2256/1] (1) CH 3c -> 2b -> Gurren -> HOP Juggle [2556/1.5] (1) CH 3c -> 2b -> Gurren -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2747/1.5] [#01] (2) [starter] -> Dustloop [1831-3136/1.4] (3) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Gurren -> HOP Juggle [2094-3422/0.5] (3) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Gurren -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2174-3733/0.5] [#01] (3) CH 3c -> 2b -> Gurren -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru -> AD J.2c -> 2c -> SJ J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3453/0.5] (4) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Gurren -> HOP 2c -> Gurren -> J.2c -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2746-4262/0.5] (4) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Gurren -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 5c -> 5c -> Gurren -> HOP -> Juggle [2658-4398/1] [#01] [#02] (5) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> HOP 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru -> AD J.2c -> 2c -> SJ J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3481-5209/0.2] [#03] [#04] (5) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Gurren -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru -> AD J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3224-4879/0.2] Gurren [#05] (1) Gurren -> 3c [1200/0.4] Renka [#06] Hotaru (2) Hotaru -> IAD J.2a -> J.5c [2320/0.1] (3) Hotaru -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren -> Juggle [3183/0.75] (3) HOP Hotaru -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3252/0.7] [#07] (3) Hotaru -> HOP Gurren -> HOP 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2753/0.25] [#08] (4) Hotaru -> HOP Enma -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2752/0.2] (2) FC Hotaru -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3360/0.2] [#09] Tsubaki (3) HOP Tsubaki -> IAD J.2c -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3575/0.3] [#10] (4) [Fuzzy] J.5b -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Gurren -> HOP Juggle [3503/0.9] (4) [Fuzzy] J.5b -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Gurren -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3726/0.75] [#01] (4) CH HOP Tsubaki -> IAD J.2c -> Gurren -> HOP Juggle [3820/1] Zantetsu (3) Zantetsu -> 3c [3154/0.1] (4) Zantetsu -> Gurren -> HOP Juggle [3803/0.5] (4) Zantetsu -> 2b -> Gurren -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [3988/0.5] [#01] (5) Zantetsu -> 5c -> Dustloop [4486/0.5] [#11] (6) Zantetsu -> Kishuu -> 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [4898/0.6] [#03] [#04] Throw Combos (0) Air Throw -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2737/1.25] [#12] [#13] (0) Air Throw -> 2b -> 5a -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2234/1.2] [#14] (1) Air Throw -> J.2c -> 5c -> Gurren -> HOP 5b -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2919/1.5] (2) Air Throw -> J.2c -> 5c -> Dustloop [3190/1.75] [#12] Zanshin/Counters (0) 5d -> 6a -> 5a -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2062/2] [#15] (0) 5d -> 2c -> SJ.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2163/1.9] [#16] (1) 5d -> 2b -> Gurren -> HOP 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2105/1.1] [#17] (1) 5d -> 2b -> Gurren -> HOP 2c -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c [2233/1.3] (2) 5d -> 2b -> Gurren -> Kishuu -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2267/1.2] (0) 2d -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [1798/2.2] [#18] (0) 2d -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [1906/2] (0) 2d -> DELAY IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [1920/2.2] [#01] [#19] (1) 2d -> 5c -> Gurren -> HOP 5b -> J.5a -> J.5b -> J.2a -> J.5c [2069/1.3] (0) 6d -> WALK J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c [2410/2.4] [#20] Midscreen Into Corner You can use any of the Midscreen combos + General Into Corner String if you feel that the special Midscreen Into Corner combos won't work or you're doing a different combo. Regular Starters (5) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Gurren -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru -> HOP Level 3 6c -> HOP Corner Loop (1) [4344-6587/2.2] [#21] Gurren [#05] Renka [#06] Hotaru (3) HOP/TK Hotaru -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren-> Corner Loop (1) [4224/1.6] (3) HOP/TK Hotaru -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren -> 6c -> Corner Loop (1) [4687/2] [#22] (2) FC HOP/TK Hotaru -> IAD J.2c -> Corner Loop (2) [4624/1.6] (5) FC HOP/TK Hotaru -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2c -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Corner Loop (2) [6324/1.6] (5) FC HOP/TK Hotaru -> IAD J.2c- > 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2) [6327/1.8] [#22] Tsubaki (4) [Fuzzy] J.5b -> Tsubaki -> IAD J.2c -> Gurren -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [4557/2] [#23] (3) HOP Tsubaki -> IAD J.2c -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [4343/0.3] (4) CH HOP Tsubaki -> IAD J.2c -> Gurren -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [4743/1.9] [#23] Throw Combos (2) Air Throw(2) -> Hotaru -> Corner Loop (2) [4078/1.5] [#24] (4) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Gurren -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [4957/1.7] [#23] [#25] Zanshin/Counters [*](3) 5d -> 2c -> J.5b -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> 2c-> J.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [3433/1.3] [*](3) 2d -> HOP or TK Tsubaki -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [3364/1.6] [*](3) 6d -> SJ.2c -> 2c -> J.5b -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> 2c-> J.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [3537/1.7] Corner Hakumen's serious damage is provided by cornering his opponents. With the right starter, he can hit 6000+ damage with as little as 3 stars. Obviously, this is the kind of damage you would like to set-up. Regular Starters [*](0) CH 3c -> 2b -> 5a -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [3126/2.1] [*](1) CH 3c -> 2b -> Gurren -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [3242/1.4] [*](2) [starter] -> Renka -> 6c -> Corner Loop (1) [3085-4847/1.5] [*](3) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2) [3722-6134/2] [#22] [*](5) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (2) [4947-6134/2] [#22] [#03] [*](8) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> J.5b -> Tsubaki -> J.2c -> Corner Loop (1) [6733-8340/2.2] [#22] [#03] [#26] Gurren [#05] Renka [#06] Hotaru [*](2) HOP/TK Hotaru -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2) [4922/1.7] [#22] [*](5) HOP/TK Hotaru -> 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2) [6209/1.8] [#22] [*](5) FC HOP/TK Hotaru -> 6c -> 2c -> J.2c -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Corner loop (2) [6622/1.8] [#22] [*](8) FC HOP/TK Hotaru -> 6c -> 2c -> J.2c -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2c -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Corner loop (2) [7682/1.8] [#22] Zantetsu [*](3) Zantetsu -> Corner Loop (2) [5001/1.5] [*](4) Zantetsu -> Kishuu -> Corner Loop (2) [5001/1.5] [#27] [*](5) Zantetsu -> 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (1) [5803/1.4] [#03] [*](6) Zantetsu -> 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2) [6514/1.8] [#22] [*](8) Zantetsu -> 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (1) [7324/1.5] [#03] [#22] Tsubaki [*](3) Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Corner Loop (2) [5054/1.6] [*](3) HOP/TK Tsubaki -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2) [5326/1.9] [#22] [*](8) HOP/TK Tsubaki -> 6c -> 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 2c -> Forward SJ TK Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (1) [6670/1.5] [#03] [#22] Throw Combos [*](0) (Back)Throw -> Corner Loop (1) [3130/2] [*](0) Back Throw -> 5b -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [3130/2] [#28] [#29] [*](0) Back Throw -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [2531/1.5] [#28] [#30] [*](0) Back Throw -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [2684/2.1] [#28] [#31] [*](1) (Back)Throw -> Gurren -> Corner Loop (1) [3125/2.2] [#39] [*](2) (Back)Throw -> 2c -> Renka -> Corner Loop (1) [3798/1.5] [#40] [*](3) (Back)Throw -> 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> Corner Loop (1) [4232/1.9] [#22] [*](0) Air Throw -> J.2c -> Corner Loop (1) [3396/2.3] [*](2) Air Throw(2) -> Hotaru -> Level 3 6c -> HOP Corner Loop (2) [4926/2.2] [#32] [*](3) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> Corner Loop(2) [5401/1.6] [*](3) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2) [5789/2] [#22] [#33] [*](5) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> 6c -> 2c -> Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> Corner Loop (2) [7216/1.9] [#22] [*](8) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki -> AD J.2c -> 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 6c -> 2c -> Hotaru -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (1) [7857/1.6] [#22] Counters [*](0) 5d -> Corner Loop (1) [2790/3] [#34] [*](0) 6d -> HOP -> Corner Loop (1) [2790/3.3] [#34] [#35] [*](0) 2d -> Corner Loop (1) [2468/3.1] [#34] [#36] Other/Misc. Combos This section is for all other combos which may have interesting features, but aren't optimal. Reversals Combos which reverse your position when being pressured in the corner. They offer an alternative to the riskier counters, though require a minimum of 2 stars to use. [*](2) [starter] -> Enma -> IAD J.2a -> J.5c -> IAD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [2696-3530/0.6] [*](4) [starter] -> Enma -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru -> HOP Level 3 6c -> HOP Corner Loop (1) [3657-4663/2.1] [*](5) [starter] -> Enma -> IAD J.5b -> Tsubaki -> HOP Corner Loop (1) [3676-4656/1.2] Mugen Combos Combos which require all 8 magatama which yield high damage due to the Shippu ender. Midscreen [*](8) 6d -> Mugen -> Shippu [5400/0] [#37] [*](8) 6d -> Mugen -> HOP/Kishuu [Renka(1) -> Zantetsu(1) -> Kishuu]x4 -> Renka(1) -> Zantetsu -> Shippu [7533/0] Corner [*](8) 6d -> Mugen -> HOP/Kishuu Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 2c -> [HOP Hotaru -> Tsubaki]x4 -> 5c -> Zantetsu(1) -> Shippu [7935/0] [*](8) Throw -> 6c -> Mugen -> (Renka(1) -> Zantetsu(1) -> Kishuu)x5 -> Shippu [8141/0] [#38]

I suppose it's similar, though you can Gurren right after Zantetsu instead of having to 2b -> Gurren. That probably means it won't work on Mu as well, oh dear. I suppose we can assume as much. I'll take them out. It'll certainly make it a bit cleaner.

Hmm, so I've been trying to burst bait recently. I've been replacing c moves with a or b moves (ie: 2b -> 5a instead of 2c in Corner Loop) and it kinda works. I see a lot of people bursting in between J.2a -> AD J.2a, but I can never read it. Does anybody have any tips on/combos for burst baiting?

Just thought I'd note here that 5c -> Gurren fails on Platinum when Peropero is on the ground, say, after a Zantetsu. She doesn't bounce high enough for Gurren to hit her @_@ . Edit: 2b -> Gurren still works though.

Since Zantetsu is not optimal but still has its uses, should I just make a section for it in the Other/Misc Combos section?

Both are pretty bad. 2c -> Gurren fails on certain characters unless you delay the Gurren and 5c -> Gurren makes the following hop 5b (5d -> 5c -> Gurren -> HOP 5b -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c if you're going for highest damage) very tight since the opponent is so low to the ground. You could always switch hop 5b with hop 5a, but then you're doing less damage than if you were using 2c instead of 5c. Oh and 5c -> Gurren whiffs on Platinum. That's probably a good reason not to use it, unless you want to remember that you have to switch to 2c every time you fight Platinum. The J.5a -> J.5b Heavy Carry combos are not universal. Spark has said that they do not work on Rachel. I'm not too sure about what other characters they don't work on. Using J.5a -> J.5a makes it easier to do the combo. In your case, you're probably not delaying the first J.5a long enough. I use it too since 2b -> Gurren is universal. Edit: This post updated with weak starter damage values. I'm considering splitting it into two posts since I'm at the character limit and had to take out some comments (>_>) .

[starter] didn't allow me to get any damage values so I thought I'd go with 5c. Should I be working with 5a -> 5b or something else for the low damage values? Hmm, looks like I wasn't clear about what I was asking for help with. We already know that if you charge a Level 2 6c after a Renka(1) -> Kishuu you can hop 2c afterwards. This is because the amount of time it takes to charge a Level 2 6c is the same amount of time it takes the opponent to fully land on the ground, therefore ground sliding for the longest amount of time, and therefore giving you the time to hop 2c. Technically you don't have to charge to level 2 6c, but it's a good indicator of how long you have to charge in order to avoid hitting the opponent when she/he is still in the air. What I was asking was if hop 6c hop 2c is universal after a hop/TK Tsubaki on an opponent on the ground (the opponent is therefore immediately ground sliding). The normal combo goes hop/tk Tsubaki -> 6c -> (hop if you get level 2 6c) 2c -> rest of Corner Loop (2). The combo to test goes hop/tk Tsubaki -> hop level 1 6c -> hop 2c -> rest of Corner Loop (2). It's not, sadly.

I felt 5c was still practical and I didn't really want to gimp Hakumen's potential damage by starting everything with 5a -> 5b even though that is more practical. If everyone feels that it's better to just use 5a -> 5b I'll go redo the damage and magatama regain values.

Could I get a bit more input on this: Is the risk not worth the reward to cut most projectiles (if think you can)?