Dreiko

I think they buffed daifunka's min damage there lol. Off of the poison nail overhead BnB it did 1.1k.

Dishonest things aren't things where you need to know how to do this one thing perfectly in order to deal with them. They're things where even if you perfectly know what you're supposed to do, you still run a high risk of getting hit ANYWAYS. 50-50 unreactable mixups or unavoidable unblockable resets and other such things are dishonest.

Nah, it's sledgehammer time.

Ashura already does more minimum damage than OD Daifunka though, that's the thing. You just never scale the combo down all the way in FRKZ due to the very high proration routes and short duration so daifunka ends up being the better thing to end combos with but if you check out the minimum damage of each hit on the wiki, they do add up as less than non-OD Ashura's minimum damage. Now with OD Ashura we'll get even higher minimum damage than we already had, which is awesome and will push FRKZ upper limit damage up even more.

I think the only legitimate issue with having Ragna and Jin be super good is that they are already the most overused chars as is so we don't want to fight endless armies which only get strengthened by the people jumping on them like how they jumped on Kokonoe. Extend was great but there indeed were too many Ragna players to be found online. Beyond that, well, someone has to be top tier and it just boils down to two categories, "my main" or "other people's main", if it's not your main you won't enjoy the experience, it's how it is.

Well, it should do more damage lol. I'm not sure what other kind of change you expected since this is how pretty much all damaging OD DDs are, they just have an extra animation in there that makes them look cooler and stronger. As for the bumper, that's just one of the 4 bumpers he has, he doesn't have to set the one on the ground lol. He can set the one in the air too.

Nu seems really good even with the nerfed reversal DD so who really cares. Just use the meter for a CA. They seem to be nerfing defensive options of chars who excel in other areas as a general thing in CP2. Bang lost 6D's frame 1 guard point for example. (Also, happy birthday Rachel. :D)

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5601-cp-bang-gameplay-discussion/page-48#entry832833 (just took one search for the word ashura in this topic :D)

Makoto is actually decent-looking in this version at least. jD combos midscreen, buffed jC, those sexy 2Dlvl2 into comet cannon routes midscreen. She looks fun now.

It was in one of those very early vids on famitsu's youtube channel I believe. He like' vanishes from all over the place a bunch of times then hits em. Not sure how much min damage it does though..

I've seen Jin make Celica's DP whiff completely with 6D and then freeze her with that same 6D, hers is a pretty large one too I think. Some even larger ones may not be able to be outspaced similarly but a lot will.

This was all based on CP 1.1 obviously lol. We don't know enough about either char to speak about how the MU will be in cp2. Hmm...that does look like a punish, yeah. I guess only time will tell. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they made Ashura even more unsafe in CP2. They did hit all the rest of his defensive options too lol.

It definitely doesn't feel like it's any more unsafe. The increase was making it -7 when it used to be -4.

I myself said it may be slightly in his favor due to nails shutting down charging. I just objected to the assertion that it was anything remotely close to overwhelmingly in his favor. 5.5-4,5 sounds fair.

First and foremost, this sounds like a..."you" problem rather than a "Tsubaki vs Bang" problem. You just need to get used to the MU more from the sound of it rather than the MU just being super bad like Nu vs Tager is where your option as Tager for the first 20 seconds are "block or charge spark and risk death", then you get one chance with spark which if failed puts you back to "block/charge again and hope you have enough life for a second spark to fill up". That's what an overwhelming matchup looks like. You just have no good options at all. Tsubaki has options. She can just DP everything and charge inbetween. Bang has finite nails, make him waste them and then go in. As for Asura, that move uses 50 meter. Your DP is safe too if you RC it for 50 meter, hell, when you do that you get to maintain pressure too, Bang is -7 when his Asura is blocked. Even if you fail to punish it he's still way worse than you are for the same resources. You don't really wanna chase him, make him come to you while charging and blocking and get your DPs ready and make them safe with your charges. Then once you land something, meaty grabs/overheads eternally.

I said "seemingly" best in the game, that qualifier was there specifically because of the reasons that you list. Bang HAS to be difficult to catch because he lacks any reliable meterless defensive options since his only frame 1 guard point loses to overheads (and they all lose to grabs) so just meatied overheads or grabs back to back make his life a living hell. He also lacks any reliable antiairs that do not get him killed to death when blocked or whiffed. His only move with upper body invincibility is 3C (the super unsafe slide) which is super situational to actually get antiairs with and not something you can do in any and all situations of being approached from the air like you could with Tsubaki's 2C or her DP (assuming she's your main). In CP2 his defense got EVEN worse because his only frame 1 guard point now is not a frame 1 guard point any more so anything meatied will counter hit him and his 2D isn't jump cancellable on block any more so he can't use it nearly as much as he used to be able to. His high tier place is more due to making him able to confirm more things into actual full combos like other chars are able to by allowing him to jD after jC, similarly to how Jin for example can jD any and all air to air pokes into full confirms ending in good oki. Bang could never consistently do this in the past so a lot of random hits ended in mediocre 1.3k confirms into shaky knockdown at best. Assuming you main Tsubaki, the MU really isn't overwhelmingly in his favor at all. You have a DP and an antiair, a command grab and an overhead you can combo with meterlessly, all these things are things that make Bang suffer. I'd say it's about even or maybe slightly in Bang's favor due to it being hard to charge when you have nails flung at you.

Bang was a very technical char to do anything with that was Mid-low tier at best in CP. He took much more work to do anything even as simple as a BnB compared to a lot of the cast, requiring multiple IADs and microdashes to do damage comparable to other char's much more basic and easy to do BnBs and he has to manage nails and balance out seal gains vs oki and damage. I was fine with him but he did need buffs just as much as any of the other solid B tier chars did. If you're fine with Nu and Ragna jumping from B/B+ to the top, you should be so for Bang too otherwise you're logically inconsistent. If anything, Valk being buffed back into seemingly best-in-game status when he was still pretty solid in 1.1 should be more of a reason for outrage.

I told you they were back man. You should expected them eventually :D.

Nu did a lot of damage off of certain starters yeah, though she used to use CT a lot too. 3k isn't really a lot if you get hit by something that puts you in the air. CP2 seems to have overall higher damage for most chars.

Nah Bang seems legit strong now. The announcer was saying "ultimate char!?" during his loop lol.

Oh right, I mentioned this to Greek but I guess I forgot to post it here. 6B loops back and better than ever. :D

Rather than close this thread, maybe open a "Bitch about CP2 balance" thread (saying it with love here, not claiming anyone here is actually complaining without at least some validity in their argument :P) so that we won't have 2 page arguments. Still though, of all the chars to summon such arguments, the buffed Tsubaki was NOT who I was expecting. Relius peeps staying classy and Kokonoe peeps are like, afraid they'll be lynched if they dare complain or still believe Koko will somehow end up broken anyways or something. Ah well, all in all, surprises ahoy. Platinum's super item DD makes your next item a super item too in OD. That's all I know.

You're likely just not hitting the buttons simultaneously even though you think you are. There's not much to do about this other than work at it more. It's an inherent weakness of playing on a system with 2 less shoulder triggers.

He's ranting about Relius being bad now I think.

But...that's a worse issue for literally every other fighter out there than it is in BB. BB's bottom tiers are MUCH more comparatively formidable than those of other games. Also, do you REALLY think chars like Hazama, Relius or Rachel will be that low in CP2? I really just don't see it. If your problem is that there's too many bottom tiers who aren't getting a fair chance, you should logically be ecstatic about CP2 since many lower tier chars (Amane Tsubaki Arakune Bullet Izayoi Bang Makoto) all got significant buffs and the top tier nerfs that did happen don't seem severe enough to put them (significantly) below the now-buffed ex-low tiers in a way that, as you describe, will make them "be worthless competitively". Sure, some char will most likely end up not having a good chance to win...but a whole lot of them now DO seem to have a chance to win when they didn't in the past. How is that not an improvement?