ryokoalways

Hakumen: 6C (full charge) > 6C combos, for 3.2k 6C(full)>6C>shippu for 5.9k zantetsu>5c>zantetsu doesn't work, need to confirm (probably just distance related) descending jC>6C>shippu 6D>6C(full)>6C>shippu for 3.8k 6D>j2c>2C>j2A>jC for knockdown and stage movement 5A-180 5B-620 5C-1110 2A-160 2B-600 2C-1030 6A_620 6B-290(1),???(2), total 498 6C-1440-1740-1940-max 2140 (holy shit, 4 levels lol) 3C-unchecked 4C-600 jA-220 jB-590 jC-980 j2a-unchecked j2c-1070 5D-0+1700 2D-0+1020 6D-0 jD-0+1610 throw-1600 back throw-0+500+1300, 2nd hit blows away, 3rd hit wall bounce air throw-0+0+1500 CA-same barrier-unchecked gurren-560 renka-total 1572 zantetsu-total 2746 enma-860 hotaru-1250 tsubaki-2200 shippu-4000, max 5500 yukikaze-unchecked Tager: combo off 6A, jD(counter), jC(counter), hammer(counter) all net combos for 4k+ air throw>j2c>2B>2C>collider>~~ gadget finger can be RC 2C(counter)>j2C>2B>2C>gadget cancel>j2c(RC)>j2C>2B>2C>collider back step may be slightly nerfed emerald is 5.6k 4d adds 4 seconds of magnetism 5d adds 6 seconds 2d adds 8 seconds jd unknown Rachel: 5B>5C(D)C>frog>3C>super jump(D)>j2C(D,lvl3)>land delay A lobelia>5B>double lili>frog>3C for 4695 5A-200(1) 2A-150 6A-520 5b-400 3B-360 4B-600 6B-540 3C-468(3)／716(5) jB-360 pumpkin-300 a lobelia-450 b/c lobelia-550 baden lily (itself)-1295 total baden lily (pole)-1586 total tempest(4w)-2023 tempest(3w)-1520 tempest(2w)-1313 tempest(1w)-1249 throw-1000 Jin: B musou- 580+800, starter 64%, combo 85%/85%. Damage decrease, prorate increase D musou- 640+900, starter 64%, combo 90%/75%. Damage decrease C mash- 180Xn, combo 95% D dp- 400+1100, starter 80%, combo 92%. Bad starter prorate 5D- 710, starter 100%, combo 64%. proration change 2D- 712, starter 56%, combo 92%. starter prorate increase air d fireball- 600X3, starter 72%, combo 90%. starter prorate increase 6B- 690, starter 80%, combo 92%

Regarding fatal counter, it seems to be counter resulting from a move that can guard crush (our examples include bang's 623B, hotaru, bang's 3C. so that fits). They said a fatal counter may result in positive proration, unconfirmed, and if true, value unknown. Just a note, this isn't necessarily correct. No one knows exactly yet.

Tsubaki: AA 2cc>super jump jbb>jcc>236A>214C for 2.2k sliding>jump and descending jc>5B>aerial for about 2.2k. useful because can be jump cancelled into neutral on guard or frame trap via poke/5C astral has no invincibility during super flash but long invincibility after super flash, and attack area is big. 5D charge speed >>>>> 2D > jD 2D charge recovery>jD>>>5D Against downed opponent, 5D is best. 5BB>2BB>5CC>236D>236236D for 3k+ (level 1), charge level pending 236236C may be throw property at point blank. having 2 gauges allows tsubaki to do good damage apparently jC>5B>5C>623D>j214D>6C>jb>jc>jb>jc>j236A>j214a for about 4k combos off 5B is generally around 3k 6B for AA 236 moves prorate a fair amount All specials more or less falls this category -A is fast -C for guard crush -D for best version (requires gauge) Not sure what B is for though 5C >2D charge cancel provides advantage. Probably 2F. 5B(counter)>2D cancel>5B combos jA for AvA Hazama: 3C>214DC>2C>jCX4-5>2C>623D>632146C for about 4.3k. doesn't work on carl after 2C because delayed 623D does not work 214DB(counter)>623D>632146C for 3k+ 3C has low positioning ie upper body invincibility, can avoid ragna's revolver. Another example is beginning of match hakumen 4C, get countered by hazama 3C because 4C whiff. 5A- punch, a bit high 2A-punch, low 6A-overhead 5B-knee, decent range 2B-kick, low 6B-low, guard crush 5C-3 hits at close range 2C-may have head attribute invun 3C-sweep, long reach easy to use D followups A-cancel B-goes up than towards the snake head, takes 1 gauge C-towards snake head unless there is opponent at snake head, then jumps backwards, takes 1 gauge D-not quite sure... Gauge recovery is in constant recovery it seems. general followups after D -B or D movement and attack with hirentotsu -counter confirm into jyakou -mid range D use A feint -if cannot attack then C to teleport for further options (May have a few things incorrect but that's general for now. I'm sure they will find more stuff) 6A(I think) is for lockdown/mixup, may be neutral/advantage on block jump in should be last resort 5D>C is for movement and lockdown command throw for mixup 2C for combo 6C for mixup, pressure (again, I think I didn't get everything correctly, but this should still be decent reference) jyakou>5C>2C>jyakou for 3.7k (this can't be right) jaykou>2C>jC mash>jC mash> hirentotsu for 3.4k command throw may have some invincibility 5C>jyakou>4D>jyakou>mizuchi (snake super probably) does 5.9k

Jin's fireball semi-spam is kind of like Ky. Can probably be used occasionally fairly safely. jC (counter) > 2D seems like as staple. Floating jC is a good keep away tool too. C fireball on wakeup is great now. It beats all tech timings due to its slow startup. And the projectile remains on block still, which makes it a good defensive tool in certain situations.

5D doesn't ground bounce anymore. I think the only way to combo is to either enma (better option imo) or gurren.

Note they may have screwed up naming certain moves because noel's moves got moved around alot. And I was wrong about assault through, my apologies.

Rachel: Nromals- 5A-unchanged 2A-unchanged 6A-more recovery, less horizontal hitbox 5B-unchanged 2B-unchanged 4B-guard crush 6B-can't cancel into anything, counter hit stun less 5C-guard crush followup-wall bounce on air hit 2C-more horizontal range 3C-unchanged 6C-no more height restriction to j2c, more dmg jA-no longer overhead jB-unchanged jC-unchanged jC(hold)-unchanged j2C- can't cancel into anything in the air, can cancel into specials and 2C upon landing. j2c >land>iris may work. wind recharge weakened from loc test (this is the biggest problem) specials- ground pumpkin-longer startup air pumpkin-longer startup, more recovery pumpkin itself-no longer guaranteed, cancel out projectiles, less hitstop, less movement range, can move multiple times after activation (I think) lobelia-no longer guaranteed ground iris-command change, can call lightning before pole forms air iris-same dmg as ground, moves when wind frog-has guage, less damage, does not jump Can attack while being wind (I think) Super- Baden(both)-less damage, comes out faster, can combo from jC tempest- requires 1 wind, 4 wind dmg 2.2k, can wind to follow up.

Nu: D moves doesn't seem to be guaranteed anymore (disappear on hit) air throw (RC)>6C> dash 2DD>6C>2DD> aerial for about 4k 3C>A gravity>delay C arc pulsr>2DD>jDD>j2DD>crescent for about 2.9k 2C(counter)>6C>delay C arc >same as above for 2.9k 2B>2C doesn't link on standing 6A(counter)>6C confirmed tk crescent confirmed 5DD>B arc works only at close distance 5A>5B>6B>5C(all hits)>6C>b arc for 1.9k 5D(1, counter)>C arc>6C>C arc>2dd>jDD>j2DD>crescent c arc>2dd>(delay)6C>c arc>same as above C arc (counter)>C arc>6C>C arc>2DD>etc (c arc pulsr = burst rush) Hakumen: astral is 2(hold)8D 4C has no hitbox at close range (probably his arm) 4C (counter) >6C is 1214 corner j2c>5C>enma>jC>2C>j2A confirmed can't cut cloud, cloud also goes through barrier 6A may not have any head invun, but overall hitbox is better yukikaze catches low meter auto gain is slower, but meter gain off everywhere else increased 5C has slightly less horizontal hitbox 5D the same 4C (counter) >5C/enma works at certain distances can cut ouroboros jD>5C>enma>etc for about 3.8k basically hakumen currently comes down to spamming 4c/6c/jc because people have no idea how to get past those moves. Bang: A nail does notable damage, 2X of CT about 6B (counter)>2A>5B>ja>jB>j4C>jB>jC for 1.9k ~6C>jD>C nail>jD>c nail>jD 5A>5B>2B>2C>Daifuka for 3.6k 5A>5B>2B>6C>jC>2B>623B>daifuka for 4.2k D nail>5B>2B>2C>daifuka for 3.8k counter jD>2B>623B>daifuka for 4.3k counter 3C>2B>623B>daifuka for 4.5k new super is throw gauge gain decreased 5A hits all crouching 5B untech time increased 6B recovery decreased, counter links to 2A j4B is old j4C 2C less recovery, neutral on block, less scaling 6C hits all crouching (I think), longer reach, guard crush 3C less scaling, guard crush j4C, new move, combo purpose 5D faster, better GP, half damage, can't jump cancel on block, guaranteed punish 6D faster, half damage, guard crush, guaranteed punish 2D faster, half damage, guaranteed punish jD faster, more scaling, half damage ground throw wall bounce air throw ground slide 623b has less recovery J4B＞5B＞2B＞6C＞JD＞6A＞623B＞6C＞air 623B＞2C　for 3.3k J4B＞5B＞2B＞6C＞air 623B＞5B＞623B＞daifuka　for about 4.3k throw>b nail>6C>air 623B>2B>623B>6C>air 623B>2C for about 2600 throw>b nail>6A>623B>daifuka for about 3.6k Tager: Character specific- B buster>A sledge> gadget tager's hitbox during 2A seems to be small hammer guard crush most of the old combos seem to work. Strong wakeup game and better damage relatively should make him at least mid tier. Carl: nirvana can fire up to 6 volante. Each shot requires less than 2 seconds to recover. burio can be regular guarded in the air Jin: A moves-5A and 6A seems unchanged, 2A slightly slower? B moves- 5B slightly slower, cannot hit downed opponent, 5B>2B, did not check 6B yet C moves-2C guard cannot jump cancel, 5C is fast D moves-5D on hit can dash cancel, links to 6C on counter hit, 2d is better, 6D guard crush ja/jb slower but still good fireball-A has less+, b unchanged, C fires one slow projectile, d has more recovery air fireball- other than D all have less recovery dp- A unchanged, B can still combo 5C, may be character specific though musou- a unchanged, b is neutral or slight advantage and 3C>musou B>5C works at right distance, C floats Air musou-A unchanged, B knockdown but can be teched before hitting the ground (think Sol's drop kick), C knockdown gives neutral 5D- starter 100%, combo 64% jC/j2c-starter 55/53%, combo 60% jD- start 52%, combo 55% 3C- start 67%, combo 84% 6D- start 73%, combo 92% A dp- 800 dmg, start 44% b dp- 900 c dp- 1000 throw- 40, 70% back throw- 48% air d fireball- 655? dmg, start 58%, combo 90%

Tsubaki: 2A has a fair amount of prorate.236D>22c>aerial is about 2k 236D is good move, probably even or slight + on block. 346D loop doesn't work back throw>214B>super jump jb>follow-up confirmed 623A has invincibility but terminates before hit comes out dp has projectile property,hakumen can cut through. charge is slightly slower. back throw>214B>5B>super jump aerial confirmed Current opinions on hakumen matchup favors hakumen. I'll do a translation of that sometime. Hakumen: hotaru and tsubaki also guard crush Bang: 5A can jump cancel on guard, cannot spam 2A can gatling twice. 5A>2A>2A 5B>623B works 2B>daifuka doesn't work 5C may be slightly slower 6C,6D,623B(ground and air) guard crush, more to come momentum doesn't carry over on B nail anymore, still does on A nail air throw now slides, can follow up ground throw hit hits target away faster. jD is faster so 5D/2D >jD works (delay on jD) j4C can combo from jA and jB (combo also on ground hit), can also jump cancel daifuka damange down by about 200 daifuka>5A>5B>jA>jB 5A>5B>2B>623B>5B>623B>6C>623B unconfirmed, but seems like should work. 3C (counter)>2B>daifuka for about 4.5k jD>2B>daifuka for about 4.3k ^C still hits all standing characters 5B>2B>6C>jD>2B>623B>2B>623B>6C>j4C>623B for 2.8k 5C>daifuka for 3.3k 5C>2C>623B>daifuka for 3.8k seems like 5C may have less damage. back step may have more invincibility. Carl: Cantata, folko,2D, 2C guard crushes Nirvana recovery is good, generally one carl only aerial combo can buy enough time for nirvana to recover to full (need more details) 2A>5A>2A>5A gatling 5B>2B>6B gatling 5B＞2B＞5C＞6D＞nirvana resting＞JC＞5B＞2B＞5C＞6D for about 3k in 2 loops and little meter usage, probably for when player want to conserve nirvana meter 6D loop is basic pressure and won't take much nirvana meter Generally carl's gatling has decent buff, in the case where nirvana is broken he can now hold on his own. carl and tsubaki has special match opening nirvana guage may have been increased 5B jump cancellable on block volante hit stun on ground is not long, air hit decent, counter hit in air completely untechable. Taokaka: 2C (counter)>6C 6C>cat3>2D6>JC>8D6>JC> jump cancel cat2 for 3711 Noel: tager, carl, arakune, hakumen confirmed combo- 3c>(22b>22C>6C)X3>5D>6B>5C>jD>5D>236D for about 4.4k ragna,bang,tager confirmed combo- 6B>3C>22BC>6C>5D>6B>5C>jD>5D>6B>236D for 3267 Strong points- 5C is faster and guard crushes, fenrir command change, optic barrel faster, 5D faster, 2B hit can jc, assault through doesn't blow target away fenrir is faster and invincible air throw>2B>6C>22b>22c> dash6C>5D6B>5C>jD>5D>236D on bang Rachel: B follow up can only link into specials pumpkin movement starts slightly slower frog hitstop is longer than loc test Jin: C dp counter combos like CT super jump air a/b fireball recovers fast enough to air dash 5D can cancel into D specials D fireball landing recovery is a bit longer jB is weakened (loc test version probably) overall firepower down B musou has slight advantage on hit musou first hit untech time increased (all musou) C fireball move even slower D super damage from 3579>3080 D dp > C super for about 3.2k throw scaling is horrid, throw(2)>A dp is 1160 5A>5B(2)>3C>2B>5C>j2C>jD>C musou for about 1.6k 5C>jB>j2C still works on tager Astral won't come out, command probably changed 6B (counter)>6C>5C> super jump jC>jD>dash jB>j2C>5B>5C>B musou for 3.5k 5B(2)>5C>C mash>5C>jB>j2C>C musou for 2.6k C musou second hit guard crush 5C much improved 5B has more up hitbox, but does not hit downed/rolling opponents 6D guard crush C mash>6C doesn't work B fireball startup may be faster. a decent summary of character style will come later Ragna: May be character specific, corner- 5B>5C>5D(2)>6A>jC>jD>jD>belial>land 5D> hells fang or D dp on tsubaki for 3.9k revolver scaling still horrid 5B, 6D, jd, carnage second hit are slower combo off dp is around 2.8k ground revolver may link into 5B now (more untech time probably) ragna and hakumen, special opening ragna and rachel, special opening ragna and nu, special opening (just a shadow of nu behind lamda) Ragna and Jin, special opening Ragna and tsubaki, special dialogue during opening revolver(1, counter)>5B>5D(1)>revolver(2)>aerial for about 4.2k (was 4.8k I think) throw>revolver(2)>5C>aerial for about 3k jD,6D,2D<rocket followup>revolver followup>D dp, dead spike guard crush belial edge > 5B works on crouch hit 5B>3C>22C>5B>d dp>22C still works.

Nu: 6C counter no longer launch. 2C counter still float. Crescent doesn't have height restriction. Character specific- Throw>5DD>(delay)2DD>(delay)6C>C arc pulsr>2DD>JDD>J2DD> crescent for about 3k. Hakumen: corner- 5Ｃ＞enma＞descending ＪＣ＞2Ｃ＞super jump j2Ａ>dash j2Ａ＞ＪＣ＞2Ｃ＞super jump j2Ａ>j2A(went black beat here) for about 3.9k, so about 3.8k of legit damage. 5Ｃ＞enma＞descending ＪＣ＞enma＞super jump ｊ2Ａ＞dashｊ2Ａ＞ｊc, used best for pushing opponent towards the corner. Forward throw damage is now 1.6k, instead of 2.1k. Tager: 6B、6C、3C、j2C、and spark bolt guard crush. astral input is now 2 circles D. ４Ｄ (counter)＞５Ｃ＞６Ａ＞collider＞６Ｃ＞５Ｄ

Noel: 5CCH>5D>5A>5C>6C>5C>236D Corner-5B>5A>6C>236A>5D~ (i guess they mean there is more follow up possible, and optic barrel combo returns) 4 primers 3C>22C> 5C combos at all distance chain revolver attacks (ones that has projectile property) may no longer be projectile property 3C guard crush JA>jB>jB>jC>revolver for 2000 throw>command throw>aerial for 2000 Not sure what j4D is for atm. 3C>22C>5C>aerial for 2.8k 5A can jump cancel on block. chain revolver 5C can jump cancel on hit ６Ｂ〉３Ｃ〉２２ＢＣ〉６Ｃ〉５Ｄ〉６Ｂ〉５Ｃ〉jc〉jＤ〉５Ｄ〉６Ｂ〉２３６Ｄ for 3267 Rachel: 6A may have more recovery. 3CCD works on more characters j2C still suck (lv1) wind recovery is weak (not specified) something about lobelia and guaranteed hit frog is about same as loc test air iris is useful new super is guaranteed and strong (not specified) ground baden lili has faster start up. Jin: yukikaze does about 2.8k 2B>5B still doesn't work D dp second hit needs to be barrier in air.

bang: Daihuka has invincibility (welcome back) jD combo start into daihuka for 4k Can follow up with air throw (couldn't understand exactly how) Regular throw wall bounces, may be able to follow up. Seal combo is easier, but not as easy as loc test. new super does 2.3k Tager: throw>B sledge >2B>2C>collider confirmed. jD feels slower. corner only, i think- collider>6C>spark>2C>collider>lowest air j2c>gadget for 3.9k (pretty good) Litchi: Corner- 5B>5C（1）>6D（1）>一通B(can't translate)>2C>6C（1）>後ろ小手(backhand?)>5C>JB>JC>jcJD>下りJC>6C>燕(tsubame)>6C confirmed mid screen jC>jD> air dash jC> 6C> tsubame confirmed jD has more recovery Arakune: guard crush moves- 6C,2C,3C,6D,D bug during curse start button releases CT A bug (lulwut) zero adds 30% hiranuru adds 30% Some confusion as to what's going on with arakune Carl: volante projectile speed is slightly slower. Taokaka: throw >cat3>2D6>jC>jC>cat 2(5) 6 follow up feels like more recovery CD loop harder jC may have smaller hitbox 2a can only be gatling twice (not sure why) 5C (counter)>6C doesn't link corner- something into taunt>cat 2(5) >taunt> cat2(5)

Ok, the reason I asked is precisely because I do not want to be the one updating the first post. Tsubaki: astral command is 632146C 236A＞214A＞22C connects, can follow with 2B in the corner. D dp has invincibility only till hit. Hazama: 5B>3C>214DC>5C>2C>aerial or 623D seems to be basic combo. 5B＞3C＞214DC＞2C＞JC（5）＞2C＞623D is about 2.3k Nu: C arc→ dash 2C→JC（8）→J2C（8）→ crescent for about 3k C tsubai (huh?)>2DD>6C>2DD>6C>2DD>JDD>J2DD>crescent for about 3.5k, maybe corner only. CPU 9th match is ragna. Hakumen: 4C (counter) > 6C >shippu for about 2.7k 6C (full charge) > shippu for 5.1k 4C (Counter) > 4C for 900 5C > enma > j2c > 2C > blah blah for about 3.5k Cannot jump cancel during dash low air jC combos into 6C (decent hitstun) 6C > shippu takes 3 primers. 3C >2B>5A>jA combos (more hitstun on 2B) 3C>3C combos 6A>6A (wtf? more stagger?)>3C>3C for 1.9k 6A moves forward, still slow, seems to be throw invulnerable (nice), links into 6B (even better). 6B two hits, overhead, knockdown, guard crush on block 4C is long and fast, not much damage, counter can link into gurren (they went with the sweet spot, nice). C moves are faster, 6C guard crush confirmed. jC has flat hitbox (not much vertical) throw>gurren>6C is about 2.4k, works on all characters. Cannot get akumetsu out, command must have been changed.

Jin: B musou is + on block, I think. Still doesn't knockdown. C fireball is 1 projectile again, no details. Noel: 22C combo still works, just need to do 5D (old 6C). Requires corner for Jin. Will need time to check all characters.

Nu: 2c>3C>B arc pulsr c arc pulsr > 5DD > jDD > jDD> crescent for 2.6k Throw > 5DD is character specific, harder timing? spike > 2DD > aerial for about 2.6k low air 2DD hit > 6C > 2dd > aerial 4B＞JC＞J2C＞jc＞JC＞J2C＞crescent arcade last boss is hazama, auto gauge gain, super fast.

Hakumen and Ragna have a match opening. hakumen 6B crushes one primer. By the way, would it be better to make a new thread for all the arcade release info?

Yeah, that's the combo I was talking about. There were two other things in that vid that was usable: The tager combo- renka(2) > (slightly delayed) gurren > IAD (delayed) jA >jB >2C > etc The tao combo- 5D > kishuu > enma > j2c > back AD j2C > jC >2C > etc That was a good one.

Only works with enma because you need something that can be jump cancelled, and enma is the only special that can be jump cancelled. I think that's what you were asking? The timing isn't strict. You have plenty of time because enma's cancel window is enormous. And since most hakumen specials can be tked, jump install isn't your only option (the only potential limitation on the cancel).

Something else that I thought was interesting, credit to a friend in Japan. Against characters that can be hit by 5D >gurren (so, people like Jin, ragna, etc), if you delay the gurren by a few frames, the following works, anywhere on the stage. 5D > (slight delay) gurren > IAD (delay) jC > 5A > jA > jB > j2C. About 3.6k damage and recovers 1 magatama, so no magatama spent for 3.6k damage. I thought that was pretty cool.

I call it a gimmick because you have to blow a crap load of meter to get not much damage. It's something saved for when you are going for the win. enma cancel into renka/ zantetsu are great if you just need that last hit. Will be hard to see because no one is conditioned to react to mixups after enma, especially if you purposely blow renka before you go into enma, then the player will block high at all times because they assume you don't have a low anymore.

So uh... I did this on accident when screwing around today. Apparently you can jump cancel cancel enma. What I mean is that you can enma, then either have a jump install input or quick tap, then kishuu again during jump startup. Then it would seem like you did kishuu > enma > kishuu, which is normally not possible. It's a pretty good frametrap/gimmick.

bladeofjustice, that's also part of the guessing what's coming. It's the same thing. There isn't a it's better to IB and punish recovery, or it's better to IB and catch. It depends on what your opponent is doing. If you think he is going through a block string, then you IB and catch. If you think he is going to stop during a block string, or jump, or frame trap, etc, to bait your catch, then you counter with poke, throw, etc, depending on what you guessed right. And if you are just not sure, then you block. The reason JP players don't just reversal (be it a dp, or catch, or whatever) every time they IB (and they do it often) is precisely because the other player is baiting for it. It's no different than any other baits. You have to get the "there is a best way to do something all the time" out of your head. There is no such thing. Fighting game is built around improvising.

Do blocking/IB/Catch depending on how sure you are about the next move that is coming. There isn't anything complicated about that. If you are sure of something that's coming, stick out the best counter, be it a catch, a throw, whatever. Otherwise, IB or just regular block. Again, it's simple. It just takes experience to be able to do it.

Mac chaos, you missed my point. To learn to IB you have to go through the stage where you are not experienced in reading moves/block strings. You can't just not do it because you fail at the beginning. Everyone at some point had to learn to IB through that method. You are going to screw up timings/reads/whatever, but that's part of the process. That's why winning the match generally does not matter. It's all about getting better, even if you have to lose in the process.

You want to IB? stop playing online. That's the best way. Otherwise, the only thing that needs to be mentioned when practicing IB is that you should not focus solely on IB. Trying to IB all the time will make you get nailed by the most basics of frame traps/mixups because you are putting too much attention towards IB. Guess what moves/block strings may be coming, then decide if you should IB.